Hi all. It's that "Should we or shouldn't we get Air Con time of year again!

[Jackal]

Many thanks to BGD, Brian and Eddie for your last efforts in 2009 to sort out the conundrum that is, trying to cool a van in much hotter climes...

 

In 2009 we didn't make it to Greece but we did get to Sicily where we encountered just as hot weather as in Corsica the year before. Our Fan-Tastic Fan did help but as 2010 saw the wife drop another sprog and we're on again for Greece or Sardinia in 2011, I think I'm going to have to succumb to the lure that is Air Con and compromise our Wild Camping somewhat by staying on more sites.

 

Therefore the great Air Con debate is back on and I'd like to guage opinion on the quietest unit, Dometic or otherwise with low amperage draw on start-up, so as not to trip all those lovely old fuses in Greece.

 

Also, does anyone have any experience of the new-ish Dometic HB2500?

 

It's an under bench unit that has 3KW of heating thrown in, as well as pretty impressive cooling. It does however, have to be fitted with the expensive DC Kit 3 but given Brian's invaluable advice about the way a van absorbs heat, it would appear that we will have to fork out for a DC Kit anyway, so that we can cool the van on the move.

 

Of course, the cons are that it will take up some storage space and Conrad Anderson didn't know whether instead of having to run more ducting, we could use the existing warm air ducting.

[Brian Kirby]

If you have cab aircon, that should take away the worst of the excess while driving, so I think you can afford to drop the DC kit, and with it the probable necessity to fit an additional leisure battery.  Just make sure the cab aircon gets serviced, and filters replaced, before you go, so it is all working as efficiently as possible during your trip.  I think I would be inclined to go for a roof mounted model, as I suspect space will be at a premium on board with your new arrival.  They are entirely logical units that place the cooling unit high, which has advantage for wild heat rejection, but also for cooling inside, as cold air drops, whereas the danger of a low mounted unit is that the cooled air merely accumulates at low level.

I don't think any a/c unit will ever be quiet, and most will induce some resonance in a lightly built vehicle such as a motorhome.  Best run through the evening IMO (with windows, rooflights, and door/s all firmly closed), to cool the van, and then dumped before going to sleep.

Most campsites that we visited in Greece had quite good shade, and there tends to be a fairly constant breeze most of the day, so comfort in the van was seldom a problem on our trip except, oddly, while crossing the Adriatic.  There was no shade while queueing in full sun at Ancona, so it got roasted, and there was not the expected air movement on the "camping" deck (Anek).  We do not have habitation aircon.  When we got hot, was when out of the van, which aircon wouldn't help anyway!  However, since you are bound to spend quite a lot of time outside, I think it preferable to acclimatise naturally so far as possible, rather than keep bolting into cooled environments.  It just delays acclimatisation.

How bad the heat gets will, of course, depend on when you visit.  We went in autumn, and were generally comfortable.  Spring seems to be regarded as the best time, though the sea can be cold then.  July/August is when it really roasts, but is also crowded and expensive, so best avoided if possible.

[Clive]

Spend a few weeks in Oz in their summer with a hired Winebago. It had aircon. We used it twice to pre-cool the MH so that it was cool when we returned from swimming. Otherwise far to noisey to live with. Roof mounted kit.

 

Our current MH had Truma floor mounted aircon already fitted. A lot less noisey than roof mounted types. However tried it once and cannot live with that noise either.

 

So for us its simple. Open the windows, SLOW DOWN and put on a fan if you must.

 

C.

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Greece in July/august can hit temps in to the high 40's :-S It is what puts us of...I would be concerened with a baby, as their internal thermostat may not be that developed*-)

 

We have had winter breaks in India and Thailand over the last two years, and believe you me you get used to it and acclimatise.

 

I really dont know what else to say without repeating what was said last time...I wont be without it, and have learnt to live/sleep with the noise. I think the underfloor set up probably better but not cheap I would think.

[Clive]

You must be a youngster Judgemental!

When I was young I could not tolerate the heat or hot curries.

Today I can tolerate the heat quite well, enjoy hot curries but cannot tolerate the cold or continuous noise.

 

Its an age thing - tolerance that is!.

 

Chive

 

[BGD]

To echo previous posters, and to re-emphasise the point to people who haven't chugged down to Spain before: Avoid July and August like the plague.

 

It's hot in Spain then.

I mean HOT.

VERY VERY hot.

 

It's also VERY crowded on every single site.

Really crowded.

The Spanish seem to holiday rather like the French - everyone clears off from Madrid en masse and camps on sites all along the Med coast.

 

It's also VERY expensive in those two months as well. Site fees are silly money, simply 'cos there's so much demand.

 

 

 

My suggestion would be, if humanly possible, to visit & camp in Spain in the April-June or September-November periods.

 

 

[Jackal]

The sad thing is for us teachers is that July/August is the only time to go so... it's then or never. However, we knows the risks and usually don't do half badly. It's just the occasional air-less night that grates but being Spanish anyway kinds of prepares you for the worst. Only mad dogs and Englishmen and all that ...!

Spoke at length to Conrad Anderson today and there is a feeling that whilst the under bench type units can be dovetailed with existing warm air ducting and don't take up too much space (400mmX230mmX710mm with a little extra around for air circulation and 200mm extra on the length to allow for easier servicing) cooling the air around your feet may not have the same effect as the hot air at the top of the van.

So I'm leaning towards a ceiling mount and have the two models in mind. The B2200 has 2KW of cooling 1.2KW of heating and 4 - 5.2 Amp current for £1499. The B3200 has 3.2KW of cooling and 1.6KW of heating and but 6.3 - 6.9 Amp consumption but is cheaper at £1399.

Will probably upgrade our leisure battery to a 230A/h as part of the deal but still wondering about a DC Kit. The DC Kit 2 isn't prohibitive but £1,000 plus for DC Kit 3 does sound overkill.

Any thoughts?

[Syd]

Cannot remember if we have the 2200 or the 3200 on the roof of our touring caravan, but whichever it is, we often used it throughout the night on a low setting and the slight noise that it makes does not keep my light sleeping better half awake at all

[Guest JudgeMental]

I would not bother with DC kit if van cab air is efficient, a waste of money (ours was) think about weight and power draw as well if you want it to work on low amp supply ours works fine on 6 amp

 

My wife works in education as well, so for the last 20 odd years we ALWAYS hit the south July/August. So you have to plan ahead, and book the best sites, but have never had a holiday yet that we have not enjoyed? even the cote de azur is fine and Spain although it is hot you get used to it..the beach during heat of day can be a bit much though. especially with toddlers

 

Given the choice I would have our summer month in the spring, but some of us have no choice and no regrets! except when booking holidays or flights school holidays :-S at christmas looked to go to Goa again and they wanted over £1500 pp if we could have gone 3 days earlier £450 (flights only)*-)

[BGD]

Just another thought - A lot of "foreign" sites have a lot less hookup power (amps) than UK ones, I understand.

 

Maybe worth checking out the initial start-up "spike" of amperage draw that each of the two models you've mentioned generates, rather than the lower "running" amperage.

 

I recall we were on a site up north in Spain last summer and our new B1600plus unit was OK running on mains hookup, but another MH had some enormous sooper-dooper very large roof mounted unit which they couldn't get it to run on that site 'cos it tripped the hookup power each time he fired it up. Can't remember what type of Air-con it was though I'm afraid.

 

[Jackal]

Yes, BGD, that's a major concern of mine but the info given by Dometic on the start up current consumption seems rather sketchy!

It's a bit like how quiet each unit is.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Jackal - 2011-01-05 10:22 PMYes, BGD, that's a major concern of mine but the info given by Dometic on the start up current consumption seems rather sketchy!

It's a bit like how quiet each unit is.

there is nothing quiet about roof a/c! you can forget about that...but you learn to live with it, and the cool it offers during worst of the day is brilliant. it must look odd coming back to a shut up van with all blinds drawn at hottest time of day, but it offers respite, any you can read and sleep watch a movie, whatever, once used to the noise? I think if you get a powerful model half the time it wont work*-) You have to be careful selecting sites, even with our soft start 1500 watt model (requires 6 amp)

[Jackal]

JudgeMental - 2011-01-05 10:43 PMthere is nothing quiet about roof a/c! you can forget about that...but you learn to live with it, and the cool it offers during worst of the day is brilliant. it must look odd coming back to a shut up van with all blinds drawn at hottest time of day, but it offers respite, any you can read and sleep watch a movie, whatever, once used to the noise? I think if you get a powerful model half the time it wont work*-) You have to be careful selecting sites, even with our soft start 1500 watt model (requires 6 amp)

Is it best to go by the quoted "Necessary circuit protection" figure then?

[Dave Newell]

Hi jackal, I can't comment on the Dometic systems but Truma do specifically say to not use the heater ducting for air con as it is a totally different construction. The heater ducting is basically aluminium lined convoluted cardboard tubing and if you run the cold air output of an air con through it you will get condensation on the outside followed in short order by a soggy mess. The other point is that heater ducting outlets will be at low level and you really need the AC outlets up high so that the cooled air falls in the living area.

 

HTH, D.

[Guest JudgeMental]

Dave is right, madness using heating duct for a/c. totally wrong position and made of the wrong material IMO. the kit I have seen ducts the air up to high level in discreet flat ductwork and looks excellent. but again I would caution as to power draw, and go for a not to powerful roof unit.

 

conrad anderson should be able to advise? just tell them you want a soft start unit that will work on a 6 amp supply. but you will still have to book sites in advance as many dont even have 6 amp!

[BGD]

Jackal - 2011-01-05 11:27 PM

JudgeMental - 2011-01-05 10:43 PMthere is nothing quiet about roof a/c! you can forget about that...but you learn to live with it, and the cool it offers during worst of the day is brilliant. it must look odd coming back to a shut up van with all blinds drawn at hottest time of day, but it offers respite, any you can read and sleep watch a movie, whatever, once used to the noise? I think if you get a powerful model half the time it wont work*-) You have to be careful selecting sites, even with our soft start 1500 watt model (requires 6 amp)

Is it best to go by the quoted "Necessary circuit protection" figure then?

I think so. The circuit protection fuse figure must be a little more than the peak start-up "spike" of power demand, so it's probably the best guide as to the units peak draw.But remember that anything else you are also running on mains electricity at the same time that you start up your air-con unit will also eat into any "headroom" between whatever it's start-up spike amperage draw is, and the maximum that your site hookup trip switch allows.Ours is the B1600plus model, and it cools our 6.5 metre A class motorhome very nicely, even in the peak of the Spanish summer. The running amperage is quoted as 2.9 amps in cooling mode, and 3.5 amps in heating mode, but the fuse protection is 4 amps.We've never yet had it trip-out a site hookup trip switch in Spain or France or Portugal when used on its own - but (unsurprisingly!) we have tripped out our site hookup a couple of times when the Sparkle has then used her thermo-nuclear-sized hairdryer at the same time, or tried to boil our 1kw mains electric kettle.A thought - why do you feel that you need a bigger/more powerful unit than (say) the B1600 one?Unless you've got a really big motorhome I'd have thought that such a unit should be plenty for your needs.Also, I'm VERY pleased that we went for roof mounted, not the under-seat style of unit. The cool air falls, which is lovely. The airflow is adjustable forward/backwards. It fits into a standard 400x400 rooflight hole (if you haven't got a suitable spare one, just cut an extra one) - and is easy to self-remove and re-install in a new motorhome should we decide to sell our current one.We're also finding that the remote control unit that comes with the 1600Plus (which I thought was a bit of a useless gimmick before) is very useful - you can turn the unit off its heating or cooling operation whilst in bed just before you go sleep; and turn it on to warm the MH up on cold mornings even before you get out of bed. Very lazy. Very nice.

[Tomo3090]

We've got a roof mounted Dometic B2200 on our Cheyenne 660. It is fairly noisy when running even on the low setting and whether you could sleep is dependant on how noise tolerant you are as a family when sleeping.

 

Power wise, we have two options. We had it fitted with a three pin plug and can plug it in to the normal 240V supply when hooked up, or when wildcamping, we can utilise the three pin plug into our fitted inverter. This is a large 2-4 KW one connected to the vehicle battery, not leisure batteries. That way we just start the engine before turning it on, "blip" the accelarator to get the alternator to kick in, and have the engine just ticking over and it runs the inverter and doesn't flatten the battery. The engine is no noisier than the aircon anyway, even outside! The major problem is of course the habitation electric goes off, but it isn't too much of a problem for us.

 

When in Spain or somewhere hot we have the roof lights shut during the day and the windows and blinds on the sun side closed. Then after the sun has gone, close them all and run the aircon for 10-15 minutes and that makes it quite cool. Then do the same just before bedtime for a reasonably comfortable night.

 

We've had this system on two vans now and it works great with no problems encountered in 4 years.

[Dave Newell]

The under seat mounted units should have their outlets ducted into high level locker mounted vents, this does invariably increase the work of installing the system and therefore the labour charge. Even Truma do allow for the outlets to be mounted low down but it is not recomended.

 

D.

[Jackal]

All,

Thanks for your contributions to this thread, hopefully others will benefit from the debate.

BGD,

The 1600S sounds totally adequate, I was just looking at value for money initially. As you bought yours in España, you'll have got a lot better value anyway. In fact I can't believe how much you paid. It's almost worth travelling down to see the old man in Madrid and having it fitted there!

Tomo,

I'm really interested in your set-up as I'm a devout wild camper and have been on here trying to find a way to cool the van without a genny, whilst wild camping for a number of years. What was the size and cost of your inverter?

Dave,

I know you won't want to quote me on here but is there any chance Jackie could get your bestest price for a 1600S and whatever inverter Tomo recommends, please? If she could email to the usual address I would appreciate it.

Many thanks to everyone and as I said above, hopefully this thread may aid others in their choice.

[Dave Newell]

Hi Jackal, we'll have a look what we can do for you but we don't presently deal with Dometic directly so we may struggle to give you a competitive price.

 

D.

[BGD]

Jackal - I got our Dometic B1600Plus from a MH dealer/workshop in Alicante middle-ish of last year.

 

Price was €1220, including fitting and wiring (they cut out a new 400x400 hole in the roof, as we didn't want to lose any of our existing 3 rooflights, and none were in the ideal position for the unit to use)

 

 

 

[Dave Newell]

Quote sent :D .

 

D.