Hookup 80 pence

[bazooka]

In this months mmm (letters) a site in Scarborough 80 pence worth used this time of year!! yet club sites £3-50.they say they have to recoup installation costs,how come this site can do it!!!

Baz :-(

[twooks]

that's because club sites are commercially motivated and have to make a living

private sites are more interested in the well-being of their users

 

 

 

ooppssss

 

 

no, perhaps that's the wrong way round

 

err

>:-) >:-)

[william1]

I also question where the CC and CCC get their costs for electricity from. My electricity costs for 14th. Nov to 13th. Dec was £69.32p based on actual meter readings for our three bedroomed bungalow which equates to under £3 per day. In the summer consumption on sites must be relatively low compared to my domestic usage during the above period. We stayed on a small private site in Scotland in the summer with metered electricity and £1 lasted 18 hours without running out.

Yes there is capital costs for the installation and safety checks but these must be well taken care of in the time the that they have been on site.

And yes one has the option to join or not to join, but I don't think that this should come into the discussion, as we, the ordinary rank and file members do not seem to be able to get our voice heard. Every time that I have written to the CC they come up with an answer 'as to why not'! - never have I had a suggestion taken forward.

 

[chas]

Regards the CCC charges you do have the option of having a non EHU pitch if available, and very few of their sites have EHU included in the costs. I only ever have a non EHU pitch with them unless the weather is freezing, as if you leave site for the day in the van you are paying for something you are not using.

 

The only way to make everything fair is to have metered pitches, but the usual excuses are made of instalation costs ect, but the prices charged for pitches today this would soon be recouped.

[terryW]

chas - 2011-01-15 9:37 AMRegards the CCC charges you do have the option of having a non EHU pitch if available,.

 

I had to pay for EHU when camping in a tent at the CCC Chichester site. After many years I have voted with my feet and left the CCC

 

[hallii]

I don't know how they get away with it

 

Ofgem, issued a Direction under the Utilities Act 2000 to ensure that

the maximum price at which mains electricity can be resold is the same price as that paid for it by the person who is reselling it.

 

This effectively means caravan sites in the UK can no longer charge a separate hook-up fee for pitches. Instead site fees will have to include electricity. Some sites have changed the structure of their fees by levelling out pricing across all pitches

 

This has been used as an excuse to raise prices unnecessarily. The Clubs have already adjusted their rates to accommodate the ruling by increasing prices to the all-inclusive fees at most of their sites.

 

So you will pay a higher price for something you don't want, nice way to avoid legislation and it raises a few more pounds.

 

H

 

[lennyhb]

The CC & C&CC use the excuse that under EU rules they are not allowed to resell electricity so they include it in the price of a pitch which they then claim they are not selling it.

 

How come then that of the tens of thousands of sites in the EU it is only the CC & C&CC interprets the EU rule this way. Every site I've stayed on in Europe has a mains hook up on all pitches and you have the choice to use it or not.

 

I am a member of both clubs but only for the 5 van sites I do not like their sites or their warden's attitude problems.

 

 

[tonyg3nwl]

hi, Please stop whingeing about electric costs. CC and CCC sites dont get their electricity at the same tarif as domestic users, but at a commercial tarif, which will include a charge for such things as Max Demand, for connection of a 3 phase site supply, and have annual maintainenance and safety inspections to pay for, as well as recoup the initial installation costs which covers such items a switchgear and transformer housing, switchroom fire prevention precautions,(eg CO2 installation), and all the site distribution and outlet points. The pitch fees are based around charges of running the site including all these "hidden" costs and "what the market will stand".

 

Dont forget there are other expenses such as Business rates, taxes, VAT and wages to consider as well.

 

If you want to have "full facilities" it is going to cost. On the other side, if you dont want to pay, dont use the site, or dont join the club, but either way stop whingeing.! There is no such thing as free lunch any more.!

 

tonyg3nwl

[747]

An interesting point about the 'Camping' and Caravan Club (CCC).

 

At one of their 'approved' private sites, it cost me £20 per night (without hookup) to pitch a tent. My present van of 8.2 metres length and 7 berths would have cost me £15 (with hookup).

 

Needless to say but we were the only tent on a large grassy area. The caravan and motorhome part of the site was crammed full. I believe they deliberately charged exorbitant fees to put off tent campers so that they could change their licence to eventually fill the space with wheeled leisure vehicles.

 

I emailed the CCC to complain and even took a photo of the pricing structure. As usual, they never even replied.

 

As for whingeing, when both clubs blatantly ignore their members, the only alternatives are to leave the club or air it on public forums. It seems to have worked with a large Motorhome dealer recently. :-D

 

I will not be renewing with the CC and I am undecided about the other one.

[Rayjsj]

I am quite happy with the Caravan Clubs present stance on EHU, they Do 'economy pitches' for folk who don't want one, the bigger problem for me as a 'member' is 'Seasonal pitches' which turn the touring site into a 'Fixed holiday park', It is very annoying to be turned away when there are caravans (never motorhomes, at least I havn't seen one) sitting unoccupied for weeks on end.

I can manage for a couple of nights without EHU, but don't unless i'm forced to. I have no doubt that eventually 'metered' electricity will be 'Forced' on all of us, but I for one wouldn't 'vote' for it. Ray

[Guest Tracker]

I rarely use ehu but even I appreciate that the cost of laying underground cables and bollards for ehu's is horrendous and would take a lot of site nights to recoup so I do have some sympathy for the site operators.

 

Maybe I would have a little more sympathy if some sites / clubs did not include it in the price wherher you want to use it or nor which in turn makes some folk run their fan heaters in their awnings all night - hardly environmentally friendly - but can you blame them if they are not paying extra for it?

[Pat]

I am sorry but I cannot see how anyone can charge just 80p a day for ehu! That equates to roughly 7 units of electricity for the day!

 

I have a small CS site and believe me during the winter my electricity bill is high.

 

As 1 watt = 1 amp x 1 volt

 

Thus on a 10 amp hook up 10 x 240 = 2,400 watts = 2.4 kilo watts per hour!

 

So if a camper uses the maximum of 10 amps every hour of the day with heaters etc = 57.6 kilo watts or 57.6 units, I at present pay 12p per unit so that equals £6.91p per day!!! So not much profit out of the £9 per day I charge!

 

On a 16 amp hook up that would be just over £11!!

 

I do hope I have got the figures correct or have I missed something?

 

Regards Pat

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Fed up with Caravan Club etc prices. Here in Spain, January we have lovely warm sunny days, sites across the road from the beach, swimming pool, restaurant, bar, electric, large pitches, supermarket on site, and where we are staying now the shower block consists of separate rooms with shower, toilet and hand basin for the sum of 15 Euros, is that £12.50 in English pounds? Even given a bin bag for your rubbish.

 

Sue

[le canichot depang]

In Germany nearly all sites are metered for electricity, so you literally only pay for what you use, it your choice as to whether you use your gas or electric to heat water, cook with or heating etc.. or 12v or mains lighting so if you want low costs you think about what you switch on and use, also makes it more environmentally friendly as people are not just using it because they are getting charged for it!

[Brian Kirby]

Pat - 2011-01-15 5:42 PM I am sorry but I cannot see how anyone can charge just 80p a day for ehu! That equates to roughly 7 units of electricity for the day! I have a small CS site and believe me during the winter my electricity bill is high. As 1 watt = 1 amp x 1 volt Thus on a 10 amp hook up 10 x 240 = 2,400 watts = 2.4 kilo watts per hour! So if a camper uses the maximum of 10 amps every hour of the day with heaters etc = 57.6 kilo watts or 57.6 units, I at present pay 12p per unit so that equals £6.91p per day!!! So not much profit out of the £9 per day I charge! On a 16 amp hook up that would be just over £11!! I do hope I have got the figures correct or have I missed something? Regards Pat

What I think you may have missed, Pat, is that electricity consumption does not work like that.  You argument is only valid if your clients were all to use the full 2.4kW per hour, 24/7. 

In practise, none will, because everything on board has a control.  The battery charger will only work flat out when the battery is discharged.  The fridge only when it needs cooling.  The water pump when a tap is turned on.  The lights only when it is dark.  A heater when it is cold.

It is quite possible some of your clients may arrive with an electric heater, leaving it continually on, on an "I'm paying for it so I'll have it" basis, but surely they can't all be quite that mean.  Overall, the average consumed will far less, on the principle of diversity.

I think you're using the arithmetic to frighten yourself needlessly.  However, if it seems that bad, stick in 6A circuit breakers, and explain to your clients that you have done so as a result of past abuses.  Our van generally draws far less than 6A, only ever approaching that load when the kettle is on.  Oh yes, and the kettle is on a 'stat too!  :-)

[Pat]

Brian Kirby - 2011-01-15 7:12 PM

Pat - 2011-01-15 5:42 PM I am sorry but I cannot see how anyone can charge just 80p a day for ehu! That equates to roughly 7 units of electricity for the day! I have a small CS site and believe me during the winter my electricity bill is high. As 1 watt = 1 amp x 1 volt Thus on a 10 amp hook up 10 x 240 = 2,400 watts = 2.4 kilo watts per hour! So if a camper uses the maximum of 10 amps every hour of the day with heaters etc = 57.6 kilo watts or 57.6 units, I at present pay 12p per unit so that equals £6.91p per day!!! So not much profit out of the £9 per day I charge! On a 16 amp hook up that would be just over £11!! I do hope I have got the figures correct or have I missed something? Regards Pat

What I think you may have missed, Pat, is that electricity consumption does not work like that.  You argument is only valid if your clients were all to use the full 2.4kW per hour, 24/7. 

In practise, none will, because everything on board has a control.  The battery charger will only work flat out when the battery is discharged.  The fridge only when it needs cooling.  The water pump when a tap is turned on.  The lights only when it is dark.  A heater when it is cold.

It is quite possible some of your clients may arrive with an electric heater, leaving it continually on, on an "I'm paying for it so I'll have it" basis, but surely they can't all be quite that mean.  Overall, the average consumed will far less, on the principle of diversity.

I think you're using the arithmetic to frighten yourself needlessly.  However, if it seems that bad, stick in 6A circuit breakers, and explain to your clients that you have done so as a result of past abuses.  Our van generally draws far less than 6A, only ever approaching that load when the kettle is on.  Oh yes, and the kettle is on a 'stat too!  :-)

Hi Brian,How I wish that was true, some campers are as you say of the 'I'm paying for it so I will use it!' brigade!I used to lock the cabinet with the 10 amp trips but got fed up constantly having to unlock it as one or other of the campers had tripped the 10 amp supply forgetting, that they had say a heater on, and then trying to boil a kettle at the same time!During the summer I even caught an RV running it's air conditioning with the door open!I must admit I had thought of installing 6 amp trips but I have recently bought some meters and will have them installed drop my price per day and then they can use as much or as little electricity as they wish as they will be paying for it! Also if they want 16amp supply that will be fine as again the more they use the more they will have to pay! Also please bear in mind there are numerous other costs such as the yearly electricty safety certificate, site insurance as required by the C&CC, rubish removal, and possibly in the future a water charge as meters are supposedly to become compulsory in this area! Not to mention the work done by myself and my son in the mainenance of the site.But that having been said we have met and made friends with some really nice guests some of whom have become repeat customers so it is not all bad.Regards Pat

[mikemelson]

I don't intend to join either of the clubs, I think they are a Rip-Off.

[scramblers]

lennyhb - 2011-01-15 11:07 AM

 

The CC & C&CC use the excuse that under EU rules they are not allowed to resell electricity so they include it in the price of a pitch which they then claim they are not selling it.

 

How come then that of the tens of thousands of sites in the EU it is only the CC & C&CC interprets the EU rule this way. Every site I've stayed on in Europe has a mains hook up on all pitches and you have the choice to use it or not.

 

I am a member of both clubs but only for the 5 van sites I do not like their sites or their warden's attitude problems.

 

 

Hi Lenny,

 

This is not a piece of EU legislation, it's from the last Labour Government. The original idea was to prevent “Rachman” style landlords from charging tenants extortionate prices for electricity. However, because it was the usual knee-jerk reaction by government tying to appease the voters (and/or the press) its effect was a lot wider than its well meaning intention.

 

The gun law that was quickly passed after Dunblane massacre did not prevent the shootings at Carlisle. Quite an irony when you think that we are hosting the 2012 Olympic Games and many international competitors will be bringing in their guns to shoot at the Royal Artillery Barracks. Yet our shooting sportsmen and women have to go abroad to practice.

 

Back to the thread, please do not castigate campsite providers because they are forced to obey a bad piece of legislation while trying to appease the majority of their clients who require a full range of facilities including electricity.

 

Maybe I’m unusual but when I go to a campsite it’s because of its locale not because of its facilities. When the children were young then they had to be within a short walk to the beach. Now, it is its proximity to a particular city/town or some feature like a National Trust property or garden. Again, so we can walk, cycle or catch the local transport. Some of the campsites are “cheap”, a CL at £5 a night; some are expensive, Cardiff Caravan Park at £19.50 a night and some are mid-priced, Salisbury C&CC site at £9.80 a night. The deciding factor is never the perceived cost of the electricity supply. If it’s provided I’ll use it; if not it doesn’t matter because, with a solar panel and a gaslow system, we are self sufficient.

 

 

[Petra]

We stayed at a Forest Holiday site operated by the C & CC club in Scotland last September and although we booked a standard pitch without electricity, when we arrived we were told that a motorhome could not use one of these pitches and that we had to have pitch with electricity and they charged £5 per day for electricity which made the pitch fee £30 per night. A bit excessive we thought!!

[Robinhood]

Petra - 2011-01-19 4:07 PM We stayed at a Forest Holiday site operated by the C & CC club in Scotland last September and although we booked a standard pitch without electricity, when we arrived we were told that a motorhome could not use one of these pitches and that we had to have pitch with electricity and they charged £5 per day for electricity which made the pitch fee £30 per night. A bit excessive we thought!!

I've used Forest Holidays sites a few times, both before and after the management agreement with the C&CC, and always found the staff very helpful.

Given that (on quick perusal) there appears to be nothing in their Ts&Cs to bar use of a standard (i.e. grass) pitch with a motorhome (in fact, quite the opposite if the conditions are interpreted literally - they define a 'unit' and it includes motorhomes) I would be quite annoyed at this.

Of course, there may have been adverse weather making the soft pitches unusable for motorhomes, but in those circumstances (having booked), I would have thought it in order to offer you a hardstanding and ask you not to use the electricity.

I certainly would have carefully read the conditions on my return, and followed up with head office as appropriate.