Vernon B Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Thought I'd taken every precaution to avoid problems from the "Big Freeze" only to find that my water system is leaking like the proverbial. With overnight temperatures down to -20C it seems we've gone beyond the limits of normal drain down procedures. So before you venture out for the first time leave plenty of time to check everything thoroughly - and if you have a pressurised system make sure the pump cuts out after a reasonably short period before leaving things unattended. Otherwise you might be in for a nasty surprise. In my case the force, in what must have been a relatively small amount of ice formation, was enough to pop a push-fit union with the water pump and break the screwed seal on a heavy duty brass manifold. All of which is nicely concealled and pretty inaccessible in the double floor. Repairs will have to wait and we'll have to resort to old style slop buckets for this weekend away. Meanwhile I'm left to ponder whether the leaks are confined to just these two points or if more will be revealed when they're made good. Oh happy days! V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikyenfo Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Bit of a nightmare really, wondering what mine is like as the only way to find out is fill everything and thats not happening. I did open all taps and drain valves and left them open while i went for a good run. I have been out since the big freeze for a 40 mile run so hopefully all residual water trapped in joints and connections will have gone . If not!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Just a point on a double floored motorhome ( like my Burstner 747). I have had an oil filled radiator in the habitation area which is set to keep the temp just above zero. As an added precaution, I set up a 1000 Kw fan heater with the rotary heat adjustment switch set to minimum and put it in the garage area. It directed the heat along the length of the underfloor area. I also removed seat bases and lifted the flaps in order to connect the 2 areas. Irrespective of the hab area temperature, I still heard the fan operating occasionally. My water pipework is above the underfloor but my leisure batteries are down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Errr the above post should read 1 Kw for the fan heater. :$ :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuevoboy Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 We've just been away in freezing temperatures again and met others suffering leaks, bursts etc. If we're to carry on like this I will seriously have to think about getting a winterised 'van. However, one thing got me thinking...some of the new 'vans have got (I believe) wet central heating systems. Would these have to be drained down in freezing conditions if the 'vans not in use? (Seems a bit crazy to not be able to use the central heating if it's too cold) *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 The wet CH system like my Alde is a mix of 40% anti-freeze and 60% water (50/50 for extreme cold weather). It does not come to any harm but the manufacturers recommend changing the mix every 2 years to prevent a build up of bacteria in the pipework. I believe this is too frequent as I use 5 year anti-freeze and think 4 or 5 year would be OK. This type of system can be a bit slow to heat a van from cold but many of them have additional heating devices so that the engine coolant can heat the van and the hot water while you are driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuevoboy Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Thanks for that info 747. I think we'll see how we get on this summer (?) and learn as much as we can about the various systems before deciding what to do for next winter! Must admit though, it's been great fun being away twice already this winter in minus 12 and minus 5 conditions. Although we had hoped to use the 'van as much as possible (we only bought it in October) we never imagined it would have had so much use already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Bulgaria Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 One tip I've read somewhere is to blow through your water lines from tap to drain points. Difficult if you haven't got a compressed air line, but I manage by putting my mouth around each tap in turn, with the tap open, and blowing through the lines (before anyone says "who's got a big mouth then" I take the shower head off before blowing through that line!). You need a good pair of lungs, but I was surprised by how much extra water came out even after I'd drained down fully in accordance with the user manual. I suspect that water just lies in the low points in the plumbing. Perhaps no problem if the low point is just continous plastic pie with some elasticity, but a possible big problem if incorporating a fitting that might pull apart or fracture if the trapped water freezes. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 We had a problem because the one way valve in the cold supply to the external shower point, which we never realised was there, prevented the water draining down. Being in a difficult place to access and being fitted with crimped connectors I decided on a repair. If I say so myself I did a superb repair by turning down some brass bar to make a sleeve to fit in where he break had occurred and gluing it in place with strong epoxy glue. The only problem that followed was that being a belt and braces man I decided that it would do no harm to make sure by bandaging the joint with Fernox Leak-Seal LX and failed to read the instructions. When I felt ill afterwards my wife read the instructions and concluded that I should not have spent a half hour exposed to the fumes with my head in a cupboard containing the joint. Took me a whole week to get over the effects! Moral of above Fernox Leak-Seal LX is a superb product but read the instructions and keep out of the fumes. Just as an aside we used to race model cars and used some horrendous chemicals as fuel additives to improve performance. Unfortunately a friend of our was killed mixing fuel in the confines of his shed. Fuel additives, some of which boarded on being explosives, were banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Not long ago I had a house in northern France, and despite draining down all the pipelines at the end of summer, all too often we'd arrive mid-winter, turn the water on, and be greeted by the unwelcome sound of great gushes from the rafters. This plumbing system, although well lagged, was a mish-mash of soldered, capilliary and push fittings, and it was always the non-soldered joints which caused the problem. When temperatures dropped enough, the joints would part company with the pipes, seemingly due to the uneven expansion and contraction between the copper pipes and brass fittings. In my motorhome, I'm now seeing the same thing: no matter how much I drain the water system, if it gets cold enough, some of the push-fit plastic fittings part company. However, pain though it is, once the fittings are pushed back together, they work just fine once temperatures are back up. I just wonder whether much thought goes into motorhome plumbing. As we know, sinks and what have you are often fixed to walls, etc, with mastic, which makes it a disproportionate problem to fix when fittings burst apart. Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 You are correct Shaun. Not much thought has gone into motorhome pipe fittings. Push in fittings work better when there is a high pressure in the system. This helps them seal better. On compressed air lines and water pipework with a good pressure, they are fine (and convenient). On low pressure they are poorer, especially if the pipe fitter has been a bit careless as he cut the pipe to length or did not cut it square at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 nuevoboy - 2011-01-23 9:51 PM We've just been away in freezing temperatures again and met others suffering leaks, bursts etc. If we're to carry on like this I will seriously have to think about getting a winterised 'van. However, one thing got me thinking...some of the new 'vans have got (I believe) wet central heating systems. Would these have to be drained down in freezing conditions if the 'vans not in use? (Seems a bit crazy to not be able to use the central heating if it's too cold) *-) First off two points nuevo. Mine is a winterised 'van but that only applies if it is in use and the heating systems are operating. When its in a laid up state over winter - especially like this one with temps of -18C its unlikely to offer any additional protection. Second point on central heating - which I don't have - these have antifreeze added so like a car radiator they should be capable of taking sub-zero temps providing enough antifreeze has been added. Anyway here's another thought. The good news is I've fixed my major leak, and you know what it hasn't got anything to do with freezing weather! Having got down into the bowels of my pipework I found that a brass blanking cap on the end of a manifold that feed all the hot water hoses had two pin sized holes in it. The cap is brass and the sort of thing you find at the top of a domestic radiator. Under pressure fine jets of water were being sprayed everywhere giving the impression that several joints had burst. What had suddenly opened these tiny holes in the casting is anyone's guess but the material was wafer thin and obviously an accident waiting to happen. So lesson one - winterised mhs aren't quite what you think - lesson two - neither is German engineering, perhaps? - lesson three - its so easy to get into a mind set - feezing weather - leaking pipes = must be the result of freazing weather. And finally. Having had no joy in sourcing a replacement cap from my dealer the "open all hours" plumbing merchant down the road was able to supply one for £1 including a new O ring - job done. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuevoboy Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Good points Vernon. I'd been chatting to another M'homer who suggested I fit a heater to the fresh tank. However, as you say, this would only suffice when using the 'van and would still require draining down between use. No point, I don't think. Although some of the latest reviews mention if the 'van has the new Catergory 3 insulation, they don't often state whether the tanks are inboard or even if the 'van is winterised. Is there any way of checking which 'vans are suitable, apart from the obvious step of going A-class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Lee Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 In the USA, part of the winterisation procedure is to fill the water system with anti-freeze. Any thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankkia Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 After reading this thread I decided it was a good idea to check out our 'van (also a Frankia). No problems with the pipework or pump but it did take a while and some warming to get the automatic drop valve to stay shut. BUT! The Nature Pure tap in the kitchen is kaput - As soon as the pump was on the tap started running even though it was turned off and there was a growing puddle of water round it where it was leaking from the split in the body. Yes I had drained down and opened all taps - I even emptied the water out of the filter housing for the Nature Pure. Anyone know where I can get a new NP tap quickly - I have 'phoned motorcaravanning.co.uk who show the tap as a special order but only get voice mail - I have emailed them and awaiting a reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Frankkia - 2011-01-27 8:59 PM Anyone know where I can get a new NP tap quickly - I have 'phoned motorcaravanning.co.uk who show the tap as a special order but only get voice mail - I have emailed them and awaiting a reply. http://www.purewateronline.co.uk/spare-parts-950-0.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankkia Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Thanks for that RH - Have ordered from them. Will probably get a call from the other lot in the morning - But that saved me £19 :-D Thanks again!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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