nowtelse2do Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Well you learn something every day. I always thought Q8 was owned by the Kuwaiti Government :$I'll sleep better to-night knowing that :-DDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 ekka - 2011-01-24 7:05 AM ekka - 2011-01-22 2:22 PM Whilst I agree fuel prices only represent a very small part of the expenditure involved in keeping one of these type of vehicles on the road, be they £18000 or £180000 I just originally posted this question to see at what point would people begin to think enough is enough £1.50 a litre, £2.00, £3.00 where do we get mad, and collectively both us and people in the industry who rely on new, but also a good second hand market to earn a living start to squeal. We all know the EU was supposed to bring harmonization in the EU, why therefore do we collectively stand for having ( I think ) the highest fuel prices in Europe without real protest. We defeated our idiot politicians over the poll tax, is any one up for taking them to task over this issue I wonder. I did not say I supported the poll tax or not, so I really do not think your rant was justified saying "YOU" helped to destroy a better system" I thought these forums were supposed to be friendly, I was merely trying to say that this really has been the only example of getting our lords and masters to listen to us, the cannon fodder. I also did not say I supported the EU, which I most certainly do NOT, what I was trying to say that we were promised harmonization as a benefit of EU membership, but they cannot even harmonize something as simple as LPG gas bottle connections as one small example. Please do not make assumptions about my politics in future, thanks. Hmm, rather touchy response ekka, you must lead a very sheltered existance if you consider my post a 'Rant'! Just because a responder does not agree with you does not mean that they are unfriendly or having a rant, it just means they have a different opinion to which they are entitled. In my post I have made absolutely no comment or assumption on your politics ekka, though I have made a reflection on my own. Curiously you seem very confused about your own position on the Poll Tax as you stated in the last paragraph of your post to which I responded the word 'We'. Now my understanding of the word 'We' is that it is a collective word for more than one person with the writer being one of that collection therefore it was YOU that laid out the position to which I responded, rather than my assumption. For the sake of the other readers of this thread may I suggest that if you wish to waste any more time discussing what has been said that you start a new thread in Chatterbox. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Rayjsj - 2011-01-24 9:00 PM Colin Leake - 2011-01-24 7:05 PM Can't help wondering which brilliant marketing man came up with the name Murco for a fuel! I think it was the brainchild of a certain 'Mr Murphy' the Irish owner of the Refinery, Don't think he is related to the Saudi royal family either. (I always thought 'Q8' was very innovative trading name !!) 8-) 8-) In our area they became known as Queue Wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekka Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 For the sake of the other readers of this thread may I suggest that if you wish to waste any more time discussing what has been said that you start a new thread in Chatterbox. Bas Who exactly do you think you are, for pity sake give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Living near an Asda store will benefit some of you. I have an Asda mastercard which gives me 1p a litre off when I use it to buy fuel. Near home Tesco charge £1.29.9 for petrol and Asda at Aberdare near work (15 MILES AWAY) it is £1.25.9 so with a 1p off I get it at £1.24.9. 5p difference when I fill up near work so that is what I do. With the van we always look for an Asda on route in order to fill up. My kids used to laugh at my penny pinching but now my son has to commute further and fills up at cardiff Bay where price is around£1.25.9 If everyone used Asda when they can out on the road they would benefit. Downloaded all the Asda stores to our satnav to help us so that we don't detour too nuch to find one Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 EkkaIf you joined this forum to antagonise, you are certainly succeeding.Have you come over fom the one that now charges to post. Please learn some forum etiquette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Unfortunately my nearest Asda is 25 miles away (and that includes a 75p Toll over a bridge !!) but if it is anywhere near my destination I always fill up there. And when driving back to England I always include a visit to the Asda at Merthyr Tydfil (like an Oasis in the desert) the 'per litre cost' is always at least 3 or 4 pence cheaper. And worth the detour. It's getting expensive to run any vehicle now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 ekka - 2011-01-21 9:57 AM As of today my local filling station is charging £1.37 per litre for diesel,and then I find that some camp sites are charging anything up to £25- £30 per night, is the time fast approaching to ditch the Motorhome, buy a car that will give me 60mpg and book into Travel lodges at sometimes as little as £19 a night, what do others think. :-( :-( Yes. If that is what you want to do; and no, if that is not what you want to do. I fear that this OP misses the central point of Motorhoming. It is NOT the cheapest way of travelling. It never was and it never will be. It's a lifestyle choice. Only you can decide whether the pleasure you get from owning/using your MH is greater than the pleasure you could otherwise get by spending your money on other travel options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 BGD - 2011-01-27 8:44 AM ekka - 2011-01-21 9:57 AM As of today my local filling station is charging £1.37 per litre for diesel,and then I find that some camp sites are charging anything up to £25- £30 per night, is the time fast approaching to ditch the Motorhome, buy a car that will give me 60mpg and book into Travel lodges at sometimes as little as £19 a night, what do others think. :-( :-( Yes. If that is what you want to do; and no, if that is not what you want to do. I fear that this OP misses the central point of Motorhoming. It is NOT the cheapest way of travelling. It never was and it never will be. It's a lifestyle choice. Only you can decide whether the pleasure you get from owning/using your MH is greater than the pleasure you could otherwise get by spending your money on other travel options. Couldn't agree more BGD (Mr or Mrs????) There is another post about cleaning the roof (how dangerous it can be) and I have just mentioned I can get my van hand washed (including the top) for £25. Surely it is a question of what you want to do with your money, your time, and what interests you have in travel etc. I remember the time when I was sailing when a certain company had purchased several marinas and owners complained about the resultant steep increases in berthing fees. The CEO of this company went on record as saying he intended to continue to increase the fees until such time as there were empty berths. He did and then there was and so he stopped (for a while) The conclusion has to be that market forces will always work this way and it is only when revenue starts to drop that companies will take notice. Where this doesn't apply is the way oil producers control supply and speculators drive up prices. We are but pawns.*-)*-) Roy Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Just a thought. If some of the increases in oil prices is due to speculators deliberately manipulating the prices why can't the European governments get together to manipulate the prices the other way to push the prices down just when the speculators need to unload? Stuffing them real good would put a stop to any future attempts to manipulate prices. Nothing like a thumping loss to put off speculators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Colin Leake - 2011-01-27 7:08 PM Just a thought. If some of the increases in oil prices is due to speculators deliberately manipulating the prices why can't the European governments get together to manipulate the prices the other way to push the prices down just when the speculators need to unload? Stuffing them real good would put a stop to any future attempts to manipulate prices. Nothing like a thumping loss to put off speculators. Why on Earth would they want to do that? ALL of the taxes they charge on the stuff are calculated as a percentage of raw material price. The higher that price, the more tax-take the Governments squeeze out on top. Everyone whines on about Oil Company profits, but as a percentage return on Capital employed, they are not good at all. BP: 8% ROCE. That's a VERY poor return to the shareholders for all the risk they take every day of losing some or all of their investment. The vast majority of what you pay (over 84% in the UK) per litre, is simply tax. Not the oil Company or its shareholders profiteering. Just taxes. Levied on the Companies and the retailers and the consumers by your Government. That you elect. To represent you. Or not. Government implicitly believes that it has to get bigger. So that it can govern more. So it needs more money to fund its continual growth. And that comes from increasing the amounts of taxes levied on its citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I can't see any way the European Governments can manipulate prices DOWN.They can't control market forces on their own currencies. Think back to some of the disasters by the UK Government trying to defend Stering on the international markets.Crude Oil like many other commodities are in a global supply & demand situation in a free trade market. Currently demand outstrips supply & the global Oil industry is producing as much crude oil as possible. (wouldn't you when prices are high ?) And constantly exploring for new sources.With the ever growing demand (China & India primarily) the major governing factor of supplies on the market is the production restrictions applied by OPEC members. They appear to be the only source capable of increasing production in the short term. But that conflicts with their long term goals. This in turn is what keeps Crude Oil prices at high levels.For those interested in more info:-Looking at BBC teletext, Brent Crude (North Sea) currently around $97, against WTI (World Trade Index) around $85. Historically Brent Crude has always had a narrow "premium" as it is less costly to Refine, as it is a low sulphur content Crude. (v Heavy Sulphur Crudes - typically Russian & South American sources)Due to the EU sulphur emmisions reductions (pre-2000 = 500ppm & now <10ppm) it appears that the whilst the unit cost for Refining is escalating (costly new plant for sulphur removal), as a low sulphur Crude, Brent is now more economical to refine.Further reductions are in the EU pipeline (Zero Sulphur by 2020) - Euro 6 compliant engines will be introduced in Sept 2015, and more before 2020.An interesting point on the UK Petroeum Industry Association website:-www.ukpia.com/industry_issues/fuels.aspx"However, it should be borne in mind that the increased processing at refineries to make sulpur-free fuels also uses more energy and these increases in CO2 emissions may offset to some extent the gains made in these new vehicles." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALAN G Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 The original comment related to whether we can still afford to go Motorcaravanning. Since I started in 1972 my financial requirements have changed radically. I no longer have a mortgage or children to support but hearing and dental care is getting more expensive, the latter I discovered this morning when I agreed to have a cap on a tooth that broke yesterday. So I decided to see how the fuel costs for my Motorcaravanning had changed over the years. In 1972 my Mk1 Transit Canterbury Savannah acheived 20.8 MPG with fuel costing 33 pence per Gallon. That is 7.25 pence per litre. From the Office of National Statistics the inflation proofed price would be 24.4 pence per litre. At 133 pence it's 5 and 3/4 times greater.. :-( However, my Peugeot diesel travels quite happily at 27 MPG so it will cost less.. but not significantly. I still need to find about 23 pence per mile to get to the next campsite. B-). May be it will be cheap enough to stay for a few days walking. Perhaps I will still be able to afford that. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekka Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 I guess I'm too stuck in the past, yesterday I had to pay 13/6d for a Mars bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 flicka, I got told years ago that diesel was a by product of petrol. Seeing that you were in the oil business are you able to confirm this, or was it a tale that I believed was correct.Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 nowtelse2do - 2011-01-30 12:44 PM flicka, I got told years ago that diesel was a by product of petrol. Seeing that you were in the oil business are you able to confirm this, or was it a tale that I believed was correct.Dave Hi Nowtelse2doThat must be some sort of old wifes' tale.Crude is distilled initially by temperature.The various products are "take off" at diferent elevations of a "upright column". In very simplistic terms:-At the bottom level = Bitumens & Heavy Fuel Oils (Marine fuel). As temperature increases as the crude it rises up the column it becomes "lighter" & then different products become available through Lubricating Oils, Paraffins, Kerosenes & Aviation fuel, Gas Oils & Diesel, Petrol, Olefins, >>>> Light Spirit, >>LPG'sOr for another simplistic flow see:-http://www.uop.com/refining/1010.htmlBut all Refineries are complex installations & differ in their crude & production profiles.As an example the ConocoPhillips UK Refinery majors on "Petroleum coke" for the Aluminium smelting industry. Others concentrate on production from "sweet" (Brent - North Sea) crudes.Hope this gives you a greater insight, but if you would like an expansion, send me a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 flicka - 2011-01-30 9:34 PM nowtelse2do - 2011-01-30 12:44 PM flicka, I got told years ago that diesel was a by product of petrol. Seeing that you were in the oil business are you able to confirm this, or was it a tale that I believed was correct.DaveBut all Refineries are complex installations & differ in their crude & production profiles.As an example the ConocoPhillips UK Refinery majors on "Petroleum coke" for the Aluminium smelting industies Hi flickr, thanks for the info, very enlightening. Why I asked the question was that in the 80's & 90's I had a couple of warehouses and run 6 trucks and a few trannys, my local filling station was a ICI one and the fuel was always a minimum of 5-6p cheaper than anyone else. Later they became Jet stations and owned I believe by a Mr Ronson who got sent down for some financial shenanigans.I asked the manager of the station at that time why their fuel was a lot cheaper than the other petrol stations, the answer was what I asked you. So it could have been a by-product of ICI's operation, as there main interests I think at the time were plastic's and nylon. I didn't realise that some refineries specialised in just certain products, so to me a refinery is a refinery full stop. There is always something new to learn isn't there?So thanks for the reply flickrDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi DaveThe ICI Teeside Refinery was primarily for feedstock for their Plastics production (Naptha & Polyethylins), i.e Chemicals rather than Fuel.So to some extent ICI could classify Diesel as a by- product of their process, but any Refining / Distillation of Crude Oil will result in various "distillates" and to some extent these are selectable. The Teeside Refinery is currently mothballed.http://www.ukpia.com/industry_information/refining-and-uk-refineries/petroplus-refining-teesside.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Thanks for the feedback flickr. That's another night that I can sleep through :-DIt was just curiosity and something that I have often wondered about.Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRANKP60 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Hi Lads and Lassies ,currently on holiday in Oman they are all griped with situation in Eygpt,papers are quoteing oil going up to 140dollars a barrel . Today we filled a Land Crusier twin tanks 114litres for 13.200 ryals at worst possible exchange rate 26.00pounds . Do we still have a Navy that could help keep Suez canal open!!!!!!!!!!if needed. After much hassle he did let me pay for fuel ,told him he can pay for tank full for the wifes Citron C32 When he comes over in 2013.Think i struck a good deal . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Frank, I don't think our navy would have the resources to keep the Leeds & Liverpool canal open, never mind the Suez. Try the French. Take care.Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 pETROL WENT DOWN 1P A LITRE by us today! Wonders will never cease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Hello, By no means wanting to tread on Flicka's toes but a common explanation for the closing of the price gap between petrol and diesel, and it's now higher price is that stocks of oil that would have been used for petrol are now being used for diesel because of the increased demand for the heavier fuel worlwide. That's ok, but does it mean that the diesel we now get is 'thinner' and/or better quality? If so, is this helping the manufacturers to clean up emissions and meet Euro5 or not? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 euroserv - 2011-02-01 12:14 PM Hello, By no means wanting to tread on Flicka's toes but a common explanation for the closing of the price gap between petrol and diesel, and it's now higher price is that stocks of oil that would have been used for petrol are now being used for diesel because of the increased demand for the heavier fuel worlwide. That's ok, but does it mean that the diesel we now get is 'thinner' and/or better quality? If so, is this helping the manufacturers to clean up emissions and meet Euro5 or not? Nick Nope. Spec is the same as ever. But heavy crude can't be refined into diesel or petrol - it goes to make plastics mainly. It is only light crude that can be converted into these two fuel types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Heating oil had started coming down, but I expect with the fun and games in Egypt it will start going up again *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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