ekka Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I'll never live it down, I always thought the rather iffy whiffs were coming from the Missus. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 CPeachey - 2011-02-13 6:57 PM I am about to buy 2 batteries on-line as no-one local is offering a decent price. Either Tanya or Alpha. Choice is Lucas LX31MF 110Ah (£219.98 delivered) Numax CXV31MF 113Ah (£208.44 delivered) Ultra Plus 120Ah. (cheapest @ £179.98 for 2 delivered) Has anyone an opinion on any of these? Have fitted out the new battery compartment. Will fix a vent tube when I get the new batteries. (The existing battery DOES have a vent pipe but the clamping bar prevent access to it!) Chris Yes! I do have an opinion. These are budget qualilty batteries For a very small amount more or much the same price you can get two 90 Ah batteries which will actually have the same available power, last a lot longer and be much better value for money. Unfortuately we do not have much choice in the UK but stick to Varta, Bosch or Banner. Numax CXV31MF 113Ah Not sure where you are getting 113Ah from but no matter, its actually a starter battery with deep discharge capability. Expect just 150 cycles at 50% depth of discharge NOT 500 as specified. Lucas LX31MF 110Ah - Same battery as Numax. Ultra Plus 120Ah. 120??? must be a starter battery again with deep discharge capabilities. I believe same vein as the numax but made by cheaper manufacturer. Again not 120AH and NOT 500. Epect similar about 150 cycles at 50% depth of discharge. These batteries are fine for light users, will give them good service but you would be much better going for Varta 90Ah which will give you an equivalent usuable power and there is the 110Ah if you need a bit more. WOrks out much the same price. The 90Ah you can succesfully take to 60% dicharge and get around 300 cycles. The 110 down to 50% and get around 300 cycles. Both will very occassionally cope with deeper discharge the 110 to 70% and the 90 to 80% if recharged immediately afterwards. The 90Ah will consume extremely small amounts of water and overall will give you much the same life as the 110 but less weight and size. The advantage of the 110 is it does have slightly more reserve power for when needed on the very odd occassions. But teh 90 using less water is lesslikely t suffer if neglected. Hence wehy both are priced the same, same Ahours for your bucks. But do not believe marketing specifications, they use artistic licence and specmanship. Bosch, varta, or banner 90 Ah is my suggestion and Tayna sell the Varta 90Ah leisure. These can be topped up with water if ever necessary whereas the ones you have suggested are 'maintentance sealed'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Your reply makes my local VW Camper dealer sound reasonable for Bosch batteries 110 amp £95.00 + vat 95 amp £83.25 + vat I could not find any info on Bosch batteries except that Costco may sell them. Unfortunately it's a wholesale only shop so I started looking elsewhere. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Bosch batteries are made by Varta. The Bocsh leisure battries and Varta are the same. Without checking I suspect you mean 90Ah not 95Ah. Check they are supplying a leisure by checking the battery Din code. The varta or bosch should have a din code 957052 for 90 Ah and 813010 or 959002 for the 110Ah. **see note at end. Now to really comfuse, there are two 110 Ah lesiure batteries from Varta and Bosch, the 959002 is longer and lower in height than the other. http://www.varta-automotive.com/fileadmin/templates/downloads/en/Folder/Folder_hobby.pdf The 9 at the beginning says it is a leisure battery. The 8 at beginning means it is a special battery. For the 110Ah bosch or Vartas it is what they call a hybrid battery. It is low maintenance whereas the 90 Ah is extremely low maintenance. Both are still very good though but in reality except in certain circumstances you are better with the 90AH than the 110Ah. I would need to know more about your usage profile to work out which is better. I think the easiest way of putting it is the 90Ah can be 60% discharged so that is 54Ah available. the 110 can be discharged 50% which is 55Ah so near as much the same. This is for a similar number of cycles. ** The 813010 110Ah I do not think has central venting taken to either end for a vent tube unfortuately. It has screwed in venting caps. I have ever nanaged to establkish whih model of 110Ah Costco sell so you will need to check this with whover supplies. Looking at Tayna site it showsindividual caps, and no longer appear to sell the 959002 110AH with centalised venting, but Tayna pictures as with all battery suppliers are often wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted February 13, 2011 Author Share Posted February 13, 2011 Thanks for being so helpful. Our useage... We go to cycle rallies and will be camping for 9 nights without hookup or re-charging during this period. We do not have a telly, laptop etc. We will be using the shower daily and washing up in hot water. Lights occasionally and diesel heater very occasionally. (this will be July/August) Based on friends feedback a single battery would be completely flat and a second therefore essential. It does seem possible that the batteries could be quite low at the end of the week. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 CPeachey - 2011-02-13 10:51 PM Thanks for being so helpful. Our useage... We go to cycle rallies and will be camping for 9 nights without hookup or re-charging during this period. We do not have a telly, laptop etc. We will be using the shower daily and washing up in hot water. Lights occasionally and diesel heater very occasionally. (this will be July/August) Based on friends feedback a single battery would be completely flat and a second therefore essential. It does seem possible that the batteries could be quite low at the end of the week. Chris The diesel heater is the killer, it can draw a lot of power to start up and 4 or 5 Amps for the fan from memory. As long as you do not use too often its not too bad. August - not terribly cold is it, just the chill needing taken off in evenings. The real issue is leaving the batteries partially flat for so long. If you were using power over 4 or 5 days most it would not be too bad and then you are recharging, but 9 days means you have batteries partially discharged left for half the time. This is a killer for batteries. People with solar panels would be putting charge back in but your not. The 90 Ah is going to cope better with being left low on charge, the 110 will give you just that we bit extra reserve but over the life of the battery it will deteriorate quicker and the available capacity fall off. Because of the length of time discharged over then the 90Ah because it is full calcium will survive better even though to begin with you might have a bit less total power available. The 110 could at a push once or twice be taken down to 80% discharged giving that extra needed on the last couple of nights say. Say you had a TV etc and power was being used over 3 to 5 nights I would sggest the 110Ah, but as you are over 9 nights I am swayed to the 90 as will have a longer life and give more capacity in a few years than the 110 would. At the end of the day if you end up with flat batteries you can always start the engine and idle it for 30 mins - not a bad idea after 5 days anyway to get engine battery topped up. So to summarise the 110 will give you a bit more reserve if you need it but at a cost of more deterioration and shorter life to the batteries. The 90AH should just cope if you are careful with power and will last longer than the 110. You may also have to consider total weight and overloading your Motorhome max weights especially if you are carrying bikes and gear. Only you can work that one out, so maybe slightly less weight and space taken by the batteries is also desireable. However I am now thinking you might be much better off, technically, with an Exide or Sonnenschein Gel battery. Not cheap at all, but will cope with the 9 days of slow discharge extremely well. You can discharge them 80% and leave for days before recharging. You would need a 180 Ah (greater than 150Ah) one and does not come cheap. If money is no object then great, but is it worth it just for the odd occassion. Probably not. If weight and space is no object then you could always fit 3 90 Ah if you run out of power, taking the option to fit third if and only if you have a problem with running out of power. Rest assured the budget 110Ah are not going to be better than the either of the Varta or Bosch batteries, and the choice is a bit of swings and roundabouts so I would go for the slightly lighter and smaller 90Ah going for long life. If I was changing Motorhome in a year or two I would possibly go for the 110s and stuff it if I age them quickly. Swings and roundabouts and up to you. Not much help now am I. Thinking of my own motorhome I have an 80Ah and I can get 3 or 4 nights in August using just lights and the gas heater fan as well as cooking extractor fan when cooking. You really just have the extra power for starting the diesel heater. so the 90 compared with my 80 should give me 5 nights, and with two would give me 10 nights, then your diesel heater would knock it back to 9 nights. So I would certainly manage with two 90 Ah. Just leave on hook up 24 hours before you leave for your trip to make sure they are fully charged and give them a few cycles when you get them to work them in and condition the plates. A battery does not reach its fill capacity until cycled a few times down to 40 or 50% discharged, say approx 12.3 / 12.4 volts off load. Hope this helps. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 p.s. if the 110 Ah bosch turns out to be vented caps rather than end vented descision for me would definetly be the 90 Ah. batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted February 14, 2011 Author Share Posted February 14, 2011 What a useful fellow you are Jon. I will go for the 90Ah as we expect to use the van for many years. There is space in the locker for 3 batteries but will manage with 2 by monitoring and cutting back on use as required. If they seem to run down too soon we can look at a solar panel to help. Of the 42 nights away planned for this year so far there will be 2 trips of 9nights each without hookup. Thanks for all the information. I am sure other readers will appreciate your advice also. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikyenfo Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 You really need a charger and Netto are selling 650 watt gennys for 49 quid and they are no heavier than the extra battery and a whole lot more use . They last a sight longer as well-go on bite the bullet and you will never regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsbc Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 I would be interested in the stats regarding the corrosivness of Hydrogen and as some one who drives in a vehicle in which the battery is under my feet I have never worried about explosion (should i now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 dikyenfo - 2011-02-14 10:43 AM You really need a charger and Netto are selling 650 watt gennys for 49 quid and they are no heavier than the extra battery and a whole lot more use . They last a sight longer as well-go on bite the bullet and you will never regret it. Personally I would not even contemplate buying one of these gennies. They are cheap and nasty Chinese made rubbish. My Dad bought a Wolf branded 900Watt unit several years ago as backup for occasional power cuts. He ran it when he first bought it to make sure all was well butr when he needed it because of a power cut it wouldn't start. turns out its a common failing on them, ignition module dies! Besides which they are noisy and smelly little two stroke monsters and when they run out of fuel the revs rise and so does the output voltage which is not good for your electrical system, especially if it is a Schaudt unit! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dikyenfo Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 No buy a Honda like mine but extra batteries are not the answer. A gennyis the only thing that produces the energy needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Update... My local VW Camper dealer said he could get Bosch Leisure batteries so I ordered 2. When I went to collect them today they were Bosch L3 batteries, (starter batteries for trucks) and not Bosch L4 leisure batteries. I rejected them. After a couple of phone calls he said that the L4 batteries are not imported into the UK. He is now looking for a Varta or Banner equivalent. He seemed to think the L3 batteries were OK but did not seem to appreciate the difference between starter and leisure. Should I have accepted the L3's? Was I being unreasonable? I had specifically asked for "Bosch Leisure" and "not starter" and also mentioned the L4 being the right one. My knowledge on this subject is limited to what I have gained on this (excellent) forum and the net in general. One expects a camper dealer, albeit a small one to give the right advice. Any comments please? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Do you maybe mean The Bosch T3 series of batteries. Anyway, you did the right thing refusing. Just been looking at Varta Batteries and they seem to have a new program for their batteries. Bit confused and seem to have replaced their leisure series with 'Professional' deep discharge, and also A professional AGM deep discharge. I need to work out what the heck they have done to the ranges. However Varta has been making the Bosch batteries for a while and were a direct cross reference... does not look like it now. So I need to get myself up to scratch with what is going on with the ranges. However, you need the Bosch L4, however somethng seems odd here, maybe an L3 is ok and is equivalent to the Varta Professional deep discharge..I just do not know at the moment. Maybe someone else here does. Meantime I better read up on what has been happening in the battery industry as it may have all changed who owns who now. Jon (all confused) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Should have been T3. T=truck M=Motorcycle L=leisure S=?ordinary starter for cars Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 http://www.tayna.co.uk/95752-Varta-Hobby-Leisure-Battery-E33-P3638.html is the identical battery as the Bosch 90Ah L4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPeachey Posted March 18, 2011 Author Share Posted March 18, 2011 Thanks Jon. It will be interesting to see what part number my local dealer is suggesting. Watch this space! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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