Dethleffs Eurostyle A70

[G and D]

Having decided to buy a motorhome to tour around Britain when we retire we have visited the NEC show in October for the last three years and been to see what second hand models dealers have and done lots of internet research and read Which motorhome and MMM.

We are now seriously thinking of the Deffleths Eurostyle A70. This is so we can put the grandchildren in the overcab bed at 7pm whilst we can still sit in the living area and have our own bed. The grandchildren are far too young to sling in a tent outside without an adult with them and would also need child seats. The A70 has six seatbelts including two rear three point ones.

 

It also has the garage to store our cycles securely and all the equipment that come with grandchildren with plenty of payload. We can both drive the heavier vans legally and one of us is over twenty years off being 70.

 

We have been tent campers for years so although this will be a new way of doing it we are not new to the lifestyle.

 

Does anyone own this motorhome and if so what do you think of it?

[Mel B]

Hi G and D and welcome to the mad house! :-D

 

I assume this is what you're looking at:

 

http://www.lowdhams.com/new-motorhomes/style-range/eurostyle-by-dethleffs/a70

 

I haven't any knowledge of this particular motorhome, however, we did used to have a low profile Rimor Sailer 645TC up to April last year, having owned it for 3 years, which was of a similar layout and size at 7.14m but without the overcab bed.

 

Excuse me if I'm asking daft questions, but these are what I would ask myself if I were considering what you are:

 

1) How often will the grandchildren come away with us?

2) How often will we use the van on our own?

3) Is the dinette lounge going to meet our lounging 'comfort' needs?

4) Is the payload sufficient?

5) How do we intend to use the van (eg leave it on site or tootle around in it all the time)?

6) How easy is it going to be to park etc?

7) How will we get to places where the motorhome won't go?

8) Is the garage load limit sufficient for our needs?

9) Do we really need/want one that size and is it going to 'cramp our style' when we're on our own?

 

[G and D]

Mel B

Thanks for the advice which are all things we have considered over and over. We are more likely to leave the van on site and use our bikes and buses to get around which is what we do now with a tent. We were always more comfortable in a 19 feet by 14 feet canvas frane tent then smaller nylon ones we have had since.

However, as we do want six seat belts we haven't found too many new motorhomes that are not this layout, still in our price range, with six belts.

We have looked at every shape and size but still come back to the overcab coachbuilt with fixed bed over the garage. And the Eurostyle seems to fit out needs with plenty of payload should adult relatives also join us and loads of kitchen storage. None too keen on bathrooms where you have to sit with your feet in the tray when using the loo and this one has a seperate shower tray. The grandchildren are all under four so should want to holiday with us oldies for a while yet.

If they were older we would be more inclined to less berths and a tent outside for them to sleep in, although that wouldn't solve the problem of seatbelts.

 

We would like to hear from owners of this van, if there are any out there, to see if it has any faults or downsides etc.

 

Thanks

 

 

[Mel B]

One thing that you may not have thought about is how to secure the child seats, this is not easy in a motorhome so should be something you address before purchase to ensure you can do it safely. In motorhomes child seats can topple sideways off dinette seats - there's a picture in the March issue of the MMM mag on page 198 whish shows this.

 

I'm just a 'bit' concerned that you are going to leave the motorhome on site and go out for the day, in which case you would appear to be better off with a ... caravan (sorry to all those who have been offended by my mention of that word :-( but I had to say it). This would then leave you with the tow vehicle to use to run around with.

 

The other option would be a smaller van conversion camper supplemented with a caravan for the times when the grand-children go away with you .... the parents could follow in a car if necessary. Just an idea ....

[Dave Newell]

"I'm just a 'bit' concerned that you are going to leave the motorhome on site and go out for the day, in which case you would appear to be better off with a ... caravan (sorry to all those who have been offended by my mention of that word but I had to say it). This would then leave you with the tow vehicle to use to run around with. "

 

So you never leave your van on site and wander offo n your bikes or in your canoes? Mu apologies if I'm misunderstanding you but you seem to be saying that with a motorhome you should stay with it all the time? :-S

 

Confused it is I am!

 

D.

[Brian Kirby]

I would suggest, if you haven't already done this, that you try hiring something similar in size for a week or so, and see how you get on with it.  It's far cheaper to review your choice before you've bought it!

Much will depend on where you would go, but it isn't a pint sized van, and British roads are frequently narrow and, now, in poor condition.  You will at least get a feel for driving a relatively tall, bulky, vehicle around the UK and, that apart, how easy motorhomes make it to change locations.  This may begin to influence your thinking about what you may do, how you may do it, where you may go, and what kind of vehicle will best suit.

Once you cross the Rubicon into a motorhome, you tend find your perspective shifts as the sheer convenience of the vehicle and the way of life penetrate your thinking.  You begin to realise there are no boundaries or frontiers, and that you can go pretty much anywhere there is a road.  It's mind altering stuff!

The base vehicle is, IMO, a good choice, with rear drive and twin wheels at the back.  Payload should be adequate, but I think you will be surprised by how much the stuff you add builds up.  Remember that everything you add will come from payload, including passengers, and even any bits of you that weigh more than 75kg!  :-)

What Mel is gently suggesting is that many approach motorhoming on the basis they will take their grandchildren, but then find that, for all sorts of perfectly valid and understandable reasons, this only happens infrequently, or never, after the first couple of trips.  You then find yourselves travelling as a twosome, in a grandchildren sized van.  For some, this works out, for others they begin to wish they'd bought a more compact vehicle.  So, if you do hire, take the grandchildren along and see how you all get on when together 24/7!  :-D

Good luck whatever.

[pepe63xnotuse]

There's some very sound advice been posted here G and D..

 

Your "chosen" base vehicle is very good(wish ours' was mounted on a twin,rear wheel drive)and you certainly shouldn't be short on space.

..but it's the "choosing the vehicle to fit the grandkids" approach that I always feel a bit wary of :-S

 

(..we've several friends that have bought "people carriers" because they occasionally pick the G'kids up from school once a week!?..only for them to sell them a year later(..the cars,NOT the G'kids!) because they were to big for the remaining 99.5 percent of the time *-)

 

Although we've no G'kids yet,I'd need to be really sure that they were going travel with us on a pretty regular basis before I committed to buying a vehicle to suit them.

...and even when they did travel with you,how long are they going to be happy sharing an overcab with each other?...or sharing with nan and grandad,if they need to be split up?...

 

..although I suppose you could always chuck a mattress and a dvd player in the garage for 'em!?..I'm sure they'd be chuffed with a littel den! :D

 

As as been said by others,hireing one for a full week would be my advice.

 

Chris

[Meadows Engine]

Looks a great van but do look carefully at the pay load. You say you need 6 belted seats, at 75 kg per person that’s 450 kg, then things like a solar panel, awning, cab air con, TV, oyster dish would take up another 60kg which only leaves you 142kg of your 652kg pay load left, its amazing where it all goes!! (weigh your bikes)

 

Every one is different but I would guess you need a minimum of 400kg for personal effects for two people.

 

Finally if you are heading towards 70 check your licence as you are over 3500kg and need C1

 

If you can, get the van weighed before hand so you can check its real pay load

 

Don’t let this put you off it’s a great way of life, but better to get it sorted before you hand over the cash!.

 

John

 

[Guest Peter James]

The downside of twin rear wheels and rear wheel drive as I understand it;

 

Higher floor and consequently less interior space, higher centre of gravity and less stability.

Rear springs closer together = further reduction in stability

Greater unladen weight (mainly due to propshaft)

Smaller wheels = greater rolling resistance, wear out faster, more likely to sink in soft ground.

Harder to examine rear tyres

 

The only advantages I can think of;

May be able to continue slowly with a rear puncture

In a coachbuilt with long rear overhang and greater weight on rear. may get better traction if you go on slippery ground. (In a panel van conversion this does not apply as they tend to have less rear overhang so most weight on the front axle)

 

The overwhelming majority appear to favor front wheel drive, single wheels.

 

(?)

[pepe63xnotuse]

Peter James - 2011-02-26 11:52 AM

 

The overwhelming majority appear to favor front wheel drive, single wheels.

 

I don't think that the "majority" get much say in the matter..it's more a case of "..the public wants, what the public gets.."! ;-)

 

It suits the converters to use a fwd chassis,as a relatively clutter free chassis would make it easier to work on,fit tanks etc..

(..and especially when using an Alko chassis,where they only usually get cabs supplied,paired back to back,so converters aren't paying for hardware they're just going to bin)..

 

 

Yes the higher centre of gravity of the twin rwd is a disadvantage but this also means it they usually have a far better ground clearance...

Just why manufactures are producing M/hs with their tanks and side skirts skimming the ground like some sort of boy racers' toys,beats me *-)

 

In the OPs' case,personally I wouldn't really want their chosen vehicle on a fwd chassis...

Although as more and more converters are dropping Ford and switching to Fiat,then we will have very little choice,if any.. :-S

 

Chris

 

 

[Guest Peter James]

pepe63 - 2011-02-26 1:18 PM

 

I don't think that the "majority" get much say in the matter..it's more a case of "..the public wants, what the public gets.."! ;-)

 

Not from what I have seen. Brownhills Newark have several Transit twin wheeled conversions in, they are the cheapest new motorhome in the place, the only new motorhome below £30,000. So they are obviously available to anyone new motorhome buyer who chooses one, and at a lower price.

 

(The more expensive vehicles have tag axles rather than twin wheels.)

 

pepe63 - 2011-02-26 1:18 PM

Yes the higher centre of gravity of the twin rwd is a disadvantage but this also means it they usually have a far better ground clearance...Chris

 

Again not from those I have seen. Just means the propshaft is the closest thing to the ground (and presumably a more expensive thing to repair if you hit it?)

[Guest Peter James]

PS:

Perhaps this myth that the X250 is the only motor home available is brought about by people visiting smaller dealerships who only stock X250s because they are the most popular?

 

[Brian Kirby]

Peter James - 2011-02-26 11:52 AM The downside of twin rear wheels and rear wheel drive as I understand it; ..............Smaller wheels = greater rolling resistance, wear out faster, more likely to sink in soft ground. ....................... The overwhelming majority appear to favor front wheel drive, single wheels. (?)

Don't want to prolong the OT but, from my Transit handbook, the RWD variants at 3,850kg MAM all have 16" wheels, just like their FWD counterparts.

As to what the majority favour, in terms of FWD vis a vis RWD, how can we tell?  No-one ever asks! 

There are four suitable RWD candidates: Sprinter (and clones), Master (and clones), Daily, and Transit.  The Sprinter is narrow track, and sells at a premium, so is priced out for many.  The Master is not yet being converted by anyone in RWD form, so rules itself out.  The Daily, like the Sprinter, is narrow track and, although cheaper than the Sprinter, seems reserved for the larger, heavier, vans that would otherwise sit on a Ducato (or clones) platform, with the Transit is used by a few, perhaps slightly more than the Daily, in RWD form.

The determining factor, generally, seems to be the price at which the converters can buy the base chassis.  The FWD Ducato is by far the most popular base among converters, so presumed the cheapest with quantity discounts, with all the others combined taking only a tiny proportion of the market. 

The disadvantages you cite for RWD (apart from wheel size) are valid, but FWD chassis do not suit all layouts, particularly where the rear overhang is significant.  The rear bias in loading takes weight, and so traction, from the front wheels, leaving such vehicles prone to wheel spin, and getting stuck on soft ground.  For such layouts, of which the OP's proposed van is one, RWD offers, IMO, a better overall compromise, despite the disadvantages you mention.

[Guest Peter James]

Brian Kirby - 2011-02-26 4:10 PM from my Transit handbook, the RWD variants at 3,850kg MAM all have 16" wheels, just like their FWD counterparts.

16"Twin Wheels for 3850kg?

Brian Kirby - 2011-02-26 4:10 PM

As to what the majority favour, in terms of FWD vis a vis RWD, how can we tell? 

By what they choose to buy. RWD Twin Wheel Transit conversions in Brownhills are the cheapest new Motorhomes in the place, but have still been there months unsold.

Brian Kirby - 2011-02-26 4:10 PMThe determining factor, generally, seems to be the price at which the converters can buy the base chassis. The FWD Ducato is by far the most popular base among converters, so presumed the cheapest with quantity discounts.

If the Ducato is cheapest to the converter, why is the Transit twin wheel RWD the cheapest in Brownhills (and still unsold)?

[Mel B]

Dave - stop being a numpty, you know exactly what I was saying above! :-D

 

If they intend to leave the van on site for days on end they'd be better off with a caravan as they'd still have a way of getting out and about with 2 small children and all their paraphernalia, you can take some trips on public transport and bikes etc, but if it's hissing it down it ain't no fun! :-S

 

Brian has got the gist of what I was 'subtley' saying spot on - about not getting a van for the grandkids, but to get something which suits the OPs for the majority of the time.

 

Now about twin RWD Fords - whilst we are very happy with our new Chausson on the front wheel drive Ford, hubby really loved the way that the Rimor on the twin RWD Ford handled.

 

Yes there is a slight trade off with the higher floor level, but many FWD vans have this too, depending on what chassis they have been built on. Whilst the roof height of the rear part of the 'van could be higher than the equivalent FWD van, the overcab is the highest point and is likely to be the same regardless of FWD or RWD so they equal each other out, it also means that the higher floor of the RWD could be an advantage and make it easier to get in/out of the overcab bed as there'd be less of a climb.

 

I agree with Brian that for the size of vehicle a RWD is much better (either twin or single wheels). Also the twin RWD is likely to give a much better payload, which should be upratable if required for minimal cost (ie paper exercise with SVTech).

 

Our twin RWD Rimor did not sink more than a single RWD, in fact it did the opposite, as the weight was spread over more contact spots.

 

As twin RWD vans tend to be the longer one, it is also more likely that owners will chose to tow a supplementary mode of transport, such as a scooter or car, you simply cannot beat RWD, and especially twin RWD for this.

 

IMV you simply cannot say that most people prefer FWD vans, as the number of FWD vans far outweigh the number of RWD vans out there. Its like saying why do people buy Fiats and not Fords, simply because of the choice available which is limited for Ford based vans.

 

Brownhills vans? Haven't a clue, it could simply be down to being 'biased' towards the apprently 'wonderful Fiat' *-) or the layouts aren't popular ones, or the vehicle itself is a budget version and people want a higher level van. :-S

[Mel B]

Peter James - 2011-02-26 2:25 PM

 

Not from what I have seen. Brownhills Newark have several Transit twin wheeled conversions in, they are the cheapest new motorhome in the place, the only new motorhome below £30,000. So they are obviously available to anyone new motorhome buyer who chooses one, and at a lower price.

 

The only second hand Fords I can find at Newark are the below secondhand ones, the first being a 2008 model on a relatively small engine for the size of vehicle at 110 bhp which I think is FWD but I can't say for sure from the pictures, and the second is a 2007 model, being on the older style Ford (Mk 6) probably on the 135bhp engine but is automatic and I suspect the payload is small.

 

http://www.brownhills.co.uk/motorhomes/used/16022_Ford-CI-Autoroller-500-2.2-TDCI-/-110BHP--2200--used-motorhome.aspx?photo=3

 

http://www.brownhills.co.uk/motorhomes/used/15562_Ford-Orion-Sirus-2.4TD--2402--used-motorhome.aspx

 

Can you point me in the direction of the 'NEW' twin RWD vans to save me doing loads of searching?

[Brian Kirby]

Brian Kirby - 2011-02-26 4:10 PM from my Transit handbook, the RWD variants at 3,850kg MAM all have 16" wheels, just like their FWD counterparts.

Peter James - 2011-02-26 5:19 PM 16"Twin Wheels for 3850kg?

Didn't specify twin wheels Peter, just the diameter, but so far as I can see, the twin wheel variants are still 16".  Is this wrong?

Brian Kirby - 2011-02-26 4:10 PM As to what the majority favour, in terms of FWD vis a vis RWD, how can we tell? 

Peter James - 2011-02-26 5:19 PM By what they choose to buy. RWD Twin Wheel Transit conversions in Brownhills are the cheapest new Motorhomes in the place, but have still been there months unsold.

Can't comment on that, Peter: what people buy is a) what they like, b) what they can get, c) what they can afford, but not necessarily in that order!  Maybe you are right, and people just don't like twin wheel RWD Transit based vans, or maybe they don't like those twin wheel RWD Transit based vans, possibly for reasons completely unconnected with their being twin wheel RWD Transit based vans!  As I said, who can tell?

Brian Kirby - 2011-02-26 4:10 PM The determining factor, generally, seems to be the price at which the converters can buy the base chassis. The FWD Ducato is by far the most popular base among converters, so presumed the cheapest with quantity discounts.

Peter James - 2011-02-26 5:19 PM If the Ducato is cheapest to the converter, why is the Transit twin wheel RWD the cheapest in Brownhills (and still unsold)?

Maybe because the conversion is a cheap conversion?  (Not all the cost of a van is in the chassis.)  But, is price the only determinant of a sale?  Are these Trigano vans, or someone else's?  Maybe they just look, and feel, inferior to the other vans on offer, even at the price.

However, we stray yet further OT, for which I apologise.

[Guest Peter James]

Brian Kirby - 2011-02-26 6:58 PM

Brian Kirby - 2011-02-26 4:10 PM from my Transit handbook, the RWD variants at 3,850kg MAM all have 16" wheels, just like their FWD counterparts.

Peter James - 2011-02-26 5:19 PM 16"Twin Wheels for 3850kg?

Didn't specify twin wheels Peter, just the diameter, but so far as I can see, the twin wheel variants are still 16".  Is this wrong?

I didn't notice what size their wheels are. But I know mine are 16" single wheels plated for 2400kg on one axle. (X250 Maxi Van) So I would be surprised if they used 16" twin wheels for 3850kg gross.

[Guest Peter James]

Mel B - 2011-02-26 6:18 PM Also the twin RWD is likely to give a much better payload,

 

I can't see why. X250 single 16" wheel vans like mine go up to 4 tonnes gross. Adding a longer prop shaft (and 2 extra wheels?) can only increase the unladen weight, reducing the payload?

[Guest Peter James]

Mel B - 2011-02-26 6:37 PM

 

Peter James - 2011-02-26 2:25 PM

 

Not from what I have seen. Brownhills Newark have several Transit twin wheeled conversions in, they are the cheapest new motorhome in the place, the only new motorhome below £30,000. So they are obviously available to anyone new motorhome buyer who chooses one, and at a lower price.

 

The only second hand Fords I can find at Newark are the below secondhand ones, the first being a 2008 model on a relatively small engine for the size of vehicle at 110 bhp which I think is FWD but I can't say for sure from the pictures, and the second is a 2007 model, being on the older style Ford (Mk 6) probably on the 135bhp engine but is automatic and I suspect the payload is small.

 

http://www.brownhills.co.uk/motorhomes/used/16022_Ford-CI-Autoroller-500-2.2-TDCI-/-110BHP--2200--used-motorhome.aspx?photo=3

 

http://www.brownhills.co.uk/motorhomes/used/15562_Ford-Orion-Sirus-2.4TD--2402--used-motorhome.aspx

 

Can you point me in the direction of the 'NEW' twin RWD vans to save me doing loads of searching?

 

I don't know about secondhand vans or Brownhills website as I live only a couple of miles from the Newark Branch so would go in to change my gas bottle, rather than look online. Last November they had several new Transit coachbuilt motorhomes in front of the accessory shop, 'our lowest price new motorhome' at just under £30,000, and were still there last week. I had a quick look inside one as I was passing and it looked alright.

 

I am looking at Brownhills website for the first time, searched Newark Branch, New Motorhomes, sort by price, cheapest is a Transit.

I just wanted to point out that they are available, no dearer than the Fiat. To read some forum posts you would think there is some conspiracy to force everyone to buy a Fiat.

[Guest Peter James]

Mel B - 2011-02-26 6:18 PM

 

Our twin RWD Rimor did not sink more than a single RWD, in fact it did the opposite, as the weight was spread over more contact spots.

:-S

 

The point I was trying to make is that smaller diameter wheels are more likely to sink.

[Guest Peter James]

update:

I notice Brownhills no longer seem to have a sub £30,000 new motorhome. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised with the way inflation is going after all the money the Government has printed and given to the bankers. But I don't want to offend anybody by going further off topic.

Back to topic and I have just remembered another disadvantage of twin wheels. I am annoyed with myself because I should have remembered this one as its the most important. Reduced ventilation of the rear brakes, so increased risk of overheating and brake fade.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Blimey Pete!..you seem to be taking this FWD v Twin RWD to heart rather..

(..I don't suppose you work for Fiat UK do you? (lol) )

 

Right..so with twin RWDs seemingly such a liability(..they sink into soft ground,you can't inspect their tyres,which apprently wear out quicker and now their brakes overheat and fade),then maybe I'd better get on to our local ambulance service and Fire Brigade..'coz they run a load of twin wheel Merc's.. (lol)

(The only FWD vehicles they run,are for light duty "walking wounded" minibuses).

 

G and D..Keep us informed on what you eventually end up doing. ;-)

[Guest Peter James]

pepe63 - 2011-02-27 10:30 AM

 

Blimey Pete!..you seem to be taking this FWD v Twin RWD to heart rather..

(..I don't suppose you work for Fiat UK do you? (lol) )

 

Right..so with twin RWDs seemingly such a liability(..they sink into soft ground,you can't inspect their tyres,which apprently wear out quicker and now their brakes overheat and fade),then maybe I'd better get on to our local ambulance service and Fire Brigade..'coz they run a load of twin wheel Merc's.. (lol)

(The only FWD vehicles they run,are for light duty "walking wounded" minibuses).

 

G and D..Keep us informed on what you eventually end up doing. ;-)

 

Fiat make twin RWD vehicles as well, so I don't see what difference it would make if I did work for them (which I don't, I am early retired)

I suppose the twin wheeled overheating brakes thing is only important in very hilly areas. Brake fade is part of the test for Goods Vehicle Drivers, but some motorhome drivers have only previously driven light vehicles so seem unaware of it.

[Rayjsj]

Peter James - 2011-02-26 8:52 PM

 

Mel B - 2011-02-26 6:18 PM

 

Our twin RWD Rimor did not sink more than a single RWD, in fact it did the opposite, as the weight was spread over more contact spots.

:-S

 

The point I was trying to make is that smaller diameter wheels are more likely to sink.

 

Peter,

I think that your statement above (smaller wheels more likely to sink)

is one of the most stupid things i have read on this forum lately.

 

The 'Ideal' 'Non-sink into mud' situation, would be as many small wheels as possible(weight) with as wide track as possible (twin rear wheels are a step in that direction), now if we can just get a Manufacturer to fit twin front wheels as well.... none of us will sink into the mud.

Sorry G & D, we seem to have 'Diversed a bit', Mel has a point, buying a large van with adequate payload for all the grandkids may make it a bit of a 'burden' when it is just the two of you. Try renting one first. 8-) Ray