Fulltiming

[maryandjohn]

We are new to Motorhoming and wonder if anyone has experience of travelling full time in their motorhome. In particular, we have sold our UK property and intend to travel throughout Europe for about three years, but we are concerned that we won't have a UK address. What do others do?

[LordThornber]

Hi and welcome Mary & John, I see you've double posted, don't worry about it, it's a learning curve :D

 

I'm not a full timer but these guys are and well worth a look...

 

http://www.magbaztravels.com/

 

There'll be plenty of comment for you on here, (well usually there is), but try using the search facility, it can be a bit hit and miss at times though. As for an address, folk get around the problem by using a friend or relatives address, this is quite above board or so I understand.

 

Martyn

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi There, I expect you will gets lots of different advice so good luck and enjoy it.

For my 2 pennorth, apart from contact address,(friend or relation), theres vehicle tax, insurance, mot test to think about, medical and breakdown cover, and then if you are continuously "non domiciled" in uk, how about personal taxation,, effect on pension contributions and old age pension,.

 

Then there is residency registration in your country of "temporary residence", vehicle registration there also, and associated medical insurance etc, . Problems will no doubt crop up if you dont have a 'permanent address' somewhere. . How long might you stay in any one country? What about access to funds, expiry dates on debit/credit cards?

 

Others no doubt will be able to advise you on individual problems, but there is certainly loads to consider. Good luck

 

tonyg3nwl

[johnnerontheroad]

Ask you questions on here http://www.motorhome365.com/ it's free

 

Good Luck

 

Dave

[peterandlinda]

maryandjohn - 2011-02-27 1:06 PM

 

We are new to Motorhoming and wonder if anyone has experience of travelling full time in their motorhome. In particular, we have sold our UK property and intend to travel throughout Europe for about three years, but we are concerned that we won't have a UK address. What do others do?

 

We have spent most of our time abroad during the last two years or so but we do have a permanent UK address and we pay UK tax and Council tax and do stay in our house from time to time (our fit, thirty something son house sits for us). You will have to have a UK address to get your vehicle insured and taxed and for travel insurance and if you don't have one your entitlement to NHS care and UK social welfare entitlements may be affected.

 

We do find that we spend much less outside the UK, but then all the big expenditure is made in the UK.

 

P&L

[John J Thompson]

LordThornber - 2011-02-27 1:12 PM

 

folk get around the problem by using a friend or relatives address, this is quite above board or so I understand.

 

Martyn

 

Comfort Insurance do Full Timing insurance without a UK residence. You still need a contact address (friend/relative/or other, but not a PO box) for legal documents, Licences etc.

 

It is not cheap expect to pay double the amount that is quoted for normal use.

 

This is above board. We are full timing in our motorhome.

 

John

[maryandjohn]

Thanks everyone for all your helpful advise, going off to do more research! :-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

I really think you need a base, it can be a small flat whatever...what if something unfortunate happens? You may want to return at anytime and a foothold in property even in these turbulent times is worthwhile in my opinion *-)

 

three years is a long time and Europe not that big! I am sure from time time you would feel like some time at home for some respite and repairs/MOT/ doctors family and friends....... and other things.....

[Brian Kirby]

If your van is over three years old (or becomes so during your travels), you will have to return it to the UK for the MoT test.  You may be able to get the vehicle "tested" in whichever country you are in at the time - I have heard of folk having vans "MoT'd" in Spain for example - but, as the van is UK registered, any such test will be invalid, so invalidating its insurance, whereupon, it will be illegal to use on the road in that, or any other, country (including UK).

[Brian Kirby]

I would add to the above that you should check very carefully how your planned absence will affect your status vis a vis the NHS, and your right to treatment under the EHIC scheme.  I understand that if you leave your home for more than three months, you are deemed to have moved and, strictly, your GP is then obliged to de-register you.  I believe that if you are out of the UK for more than 12 months (maybe less?), you lose your rights to NHS treatment so, presumably, your right to treatment under the EHIC scheme. 

Most health insurance schemes sold in UK are based on the concept that the insurance covers only those costs not covered under EHIC.  Lose the EHIC entitlement, and then become seriously ill, and you could find yourselves liable for astronomical, potentially bankrupting, medical bills.  Your insurance will pay only what the contract obliges it to pay so, if you don't declare your changed status vis a vis the NHS you will have broken the contract, and they will pay nothing!  If you will be away long enough to lose NHS cover, you will have to insure on a full payment basis, and the premium will be correspondingly higher.  You will also have to re-register for NHS treatment on your return - under whatever rules apply post the "reforms"!  (No details on these yet, because they're making it up as they go!  :-()

Also, when filling in the insurance declaration, be scrupulous about reporting any and all medical conditions, even things that may have been suspected as symptoms of something serious that were subsequently found to be minor, and any surgery, however minor, within the required period.  Fail to do this, and when you need them, you may find they walk.  They only delve into your records after you claim, not when they insure you!

Sorry to put up draconian warnings, but you de seem to have made a huge leap in the dark without doing much research into the consequences.

[eric hobson]

I spoke to Comfort this morning at great length and this is my understanding of the conversation. Apologies to Comfort if it varies with their interpretation as I am still a little confused.

The gist is that if you spend more time in your motorhome than in your house then you are deemed to be full timing. You have to declare this information which will be passed onto the underwriter who will then make a decision whether or not to increase your premium. Apparently this applies whether you own your property,rent or reside with a relative or friend. If you do not supply this information, in the event of a claim your insurance will be null and void.

Just some questions which will perhaps help me become less confused.

If I stay home a week and go away in the van for a fortnight and keep repeating that during the insurance period, am I deemed a fulltimer?

Does the same apply if I do 4 months then 3 months? Apparently yes.

On another note why is there a higher risk attached to fulltiming, If you have an imposed mileage limit does it matter if it,s done over an extended tour or over a series of weekend outings?

Is the van more at risk of theft on your drive or on a site in UK or abroad?

I am quite willing to pay the required premium but is this just a case of extracting more money?

I have read many threads on this site from people on extended tours, are they all paying fulltiming insurance.

Sorry for being so long winded but I would appreciate advice. I have been motorhoming for over 20 years but this appears to be a recent addition to the insurers terms. *-)

[John J Thompson]

eric hobson - 2011-03-03 11:30 AM

 

I spoke to Comfort this morning at great length and this is my understanding of the conversation. Apologies to Comfort if it varies with their interpretation as I am still a little confused.

The gist is that if you spend more time in your motorhome than in your house then you are deemed to be full timing. You have to declare this information which will be passed onto the underwriter who will then make a decision whether or not to increase your premium. Apparently this applies whether you own your property,rent or reside with a relative or friend. If you do not supply this information, in the event of a claim your insurance will be null and void.

Just some questions which will perhaps help me become less confused.

If I stay home a week and go away in the van for a fortnight and keep repeating that during the insurance period, am I deemed a fulltimer?

Does the same apply if I do 4 months then 3 months? Apparently yes.

On another note why is there a higher risk attached to fulltiming, If you have an imposed mileage limit does it matter if it,s done over an extended tour or over a series of weekend outings?

Is the van more at risk of theft on your drive or on a site in UK or abroad?

I am quite willing to pay the required premium but is this just a case of extracting more money?

I have read many threads on this site from people on extended tours, are they all paying fulltiming insurance.

Sorry for being so long winded but I would appreciate advice. I have been motorhoming for over 20 years but this appears to be a recent addition to the insurers terms. *-)

 

Hi Eric

 

We are full timing and are paying the full timing supplement. We have been on the road now for 12 months. I would rather pay up and be assured that any claim will be honoured, than wing it on a hope that they won't ask pertinent questions in case of a claim.

 

I think your conversation with Comfort will raise a few peoples blood pressure, particularly those who are full timing on policies that claim to be 365 day cover, but are not full time cover.

 

It is a judgement of the underwriters that they consider full timing to present more of a risk to them than a van left in a compound somewhere or on a site unattended. There are no published statistics that I am aware off for them to base there assumptions on. I could be wrong, if so I would dearly love to see a copy.

 

John

[Dave225]

I agree with the concens regarding not having a base. Although selling the family home may appear to be a good idea, it is something I would never do. Investing the money will rarely match house price rises, and I know many will say ''what rise'? At the moment they are dropping. However that will not last indefinitely and rises of 10% per annum are very likely once things move. You will never get that in a bank account. Therefore the only other option is the stock market and that can be risky as well.

 

Also, if heaven forbid one of you has a serious illness and care is required, how will you achieve that in a motorhome abroad? You may feel you can alwasy rent if push comes to shove, but is that something you wish to do long term? Whatever motorhome you buy, it will depreciate. I know there are a large number of fulltimers basically 'living' in places like La Manga and the rates for the pitch are cheap'ish. We saw a large number of US RV's and 5th wheelers parked up for the year with garden sheds etc all around the pitch. They all seemed very happy I must admit, but some we talked to still had a home back here so had the best of both worlds. There was also a storage facility a short distance away so some of them move the vehicle there when they come home. Yes, the vehicle is not taxed or insured but they take the chance as it is only a short distance.

 

I would enjoy the fulltiming idea, but not at the expense of selling the house. We compromise and spend 3 months abroad at a time, sometimes twice a year, but that is long enough we find.

 

However, good luck to whatever you do. One thing that may affect you in future days is that the good old EU has plans to make every citizen be resident somewhere, and of course pay any taxes due. They call it Tax Harmonisation but basically this is to stop people 'hopping' borders every 6 months. One way out of that one is to go outside the EU, maybe Morrocco but in these 'troubled' times maybe not.

[Patricia]

One or two points to add:

When abroad you must keep paying the annual road tax to remain legal and without a UK address this could be a problem - you will be deemed to have exported the vehicle. Likewise after 3 months in another country e.g. France you must legally declare the import of the vehicle which you cannot insure over there without an address in that country!

You need to be in the uK to take out health insurance and they will not renew whilst you are abroad. I found this out to my cost last year when I needed to make a claim. It was refused despite the fact that at the time of the misfortune I was still covered but would not be returning to the UK until after the insurance renewal date.

I was refused cover by Comfort because when in the UK the 'van is parked securely at my daughter's address and not insecurely on my drive!

Some insurers e.g. Carefree will not cover you if you do not actually sleep in the 'van every night whilst away from home.

Most will not allow you to leave the 'van and come back to the UK for a short visit.

Brian is quite correct about health claims. My late husband had a slight stroke in France and the insurance company refused to pay out saying that he had suffered a similar incident many years before. This had proved to be an incorrect diagnosis, the consultant provided written proof that this was the case but they would still not pay out.

Having been so negative, maryandjohn, I wish you well in your travels. Enjoy yourselves - you only live once and time is short.

Nightmare really!

[Guest Peter James]

From what I've seen, the majority of British Registered vehicles on the Costas have no road tax and seem to get away with it. But thats cars, and usually old cars, so having them seized might not be a disaster. When its your home, and a motorhome attracts more attention, I think you really do need to stay legal.

[Dave225]

Just one other comment regarding road tax. We now have courtesy of Gordon Brown a document called a SORN document. You get this when you re tax your vehicle. However the kicker is that you must inform the DVLA if you do not re tax the vehicle, if not then you can be liable for prosecution on your return. You cannot even 'keep the vehicle off the road' anymore. The only way out is to sell or scrap the vehicle, and fill in the appropriate form, neither of which is much use to anyone living abroad. How this will affect those currently abroad with untaxed vehicles I do not know. Mayeb they feel they can 'hide'.

 

Just re checked to SORNwebsite and I see that the 'plan' to not allow you to keep a vehicle off the road has not come into effect yet. I know I read about it somewhere that this was the next 'cunning plan'.

[Brian Kirby]

Peter James - 2011-03-03 5:03 PM From what I've seen, the majority of British Registered vehicles on the Costas have no road tax and seem to get away with it. But thats cars, and usually old cars, so having them seized might not be a disaster. When its your home, and a motorhome attracts more attention, I think you really do need to stay legal.

having the car seized is the least of your problems.  If the car is UK registered it should be taxed, tested, and insured in the UK, and to do that the owner must have an address in the UK.  If these cars are un-taxed it seems probable they are untested, and so probably also uninsured.  That doesn't mean they may not be submitted for vehicle tests while in Spain, or even that they may not have Spanish insurance but, if that is the case, I do wonder whether either is properly valid, and if it is, how Spain manages to get around the European laws that seem to bind every country along the same lines as above.

The point is that if someone driving one of these vehicles has an accident with serious consequences, and the insurance company suddenly decides the insurance was written in error, and reneges on the policy, on whatever pretext, it will be the car owner who is held personally liable for all the costs.  Not a cheering prospect for a retiree with limited assets, possibly just their home, to be confronted with the full costs of a complicated insurance claim.  There are some endearing old buffers eking out their time on the Costas, but God help any of them who come badly unstuck with invalid car insurance after an accident.

[Patricia]

Dave225 - 2011-03-03 5:17 PM

 

Just one other comment regarding road tax. We now have courtesy of Gordon Brown a document called a SORN document. You get this when you re tax your vehicle. However the kicker is that you must inform the DVLA if you do not re tax the vehicle, if not then you can be liable for prosecution on your return. You cannot even 'keep the vehicle off the road' anymore. The only way out is to sell or scrap the vehicle, and fill in the appropriate form, neither of which is much use to anyone living abroad. How this will affect those currently abroad with untaxed vehicles I do not know. Mayeb they feel they can 'hide'.

 

Just re checked to SORNwebsite and I see that the 'plan' to not allow you to keep a vehicle off the road has not come into effect yet. I know I read about it somewhere that this was the next 'cunning plan'.

 

I am confused by this post as I thought SORN meant that you could keep the vehicle off the road untaxed. In fact, it recently occurred to me that when I am in France the motorhome stands unused for perhaps two months and I was considering applying for the SORN and then re-taxing before the journey home.

[Brian Kirby]

So far as I can see, the new requirement is simply that for so long as a vehicle is taxed (an so available to use), it must be insured and, if over three years old (but depending on vehicle type), it must have a current MoT certificate.

If it is SORN'd, it need not be insured, but must then be kept off public roads (throughout the EU).  If it is over three years old (proviso as above), and no longer has a current MoT test cert, it is permissible to drive it to an MoT test station for a pre-arranged MoT test, providing it is insured.  Under these circumstances, so far as I can see, it would not be permissible to drive it away for repair, and all repairs would have to be made on the premises, and the re-test passed, before it could be driven away.  Anyone proposing to do this would be well advised to inform their insurer of the exact circumstances when completing their proposal details.  This may cause some difficulty.  Otherwise, the vehicle would have to be transported to the test station and, if removed for repair, transported away and so on until it passes the test.  The vehicle must then be taxed as soon as it passes the test.

There is no requirement, that I could find, that would result in a vehicle having to be scrapped merely because it is untaxed and uninsured, providing it has been SORN'd.  If it is on a public road and has no tax, and no insurance, whether or not it has been SORN'd, it is liable to be "uplifted" to the nearest crusher, for which pleasure the registered keeper is liable to receive the bill!

Regarding SORN while abroad, this cannot be done.  It is a requirement that the vehicle is in UK for SORN to be declared.

All the above from the Direct.gov.uk website.

[Patricia]

Brian Kirby - 2011-03-04 11:07 AM Regarding SORN while abroad, this cannot be done.  It is a requirement that the vehicle is in UK for SORN to be declared.

All the above from the Direct.gov.uk website.

Oh well. seened a good idea at the time! Just tried to look at that website but it is unavailable for routine maintenance at the moment.

[Guest Peter James]

Brian Kirby - 2011-03-04 11:07 AM

So far as I can see, the new requirement is simply that for so long as a vehicle is taxed (an so available to use), it must be insured and, if over three years old (but depending on vehicle type), it must have a current MoT certificate.

If it is SORN'd, it need not be insured, but must then be kept off public roads (throughout the EU).  If it is over three years old (proviso as above), and no longer has a current MoT test cert, it is permissible to drive it to an MoT test station for a pre-arranged MoT test, providing it is insured.  Under these circumstances, so far as I can see, it would not be permissible to drive it away for repair, and all repairs would have to be made on the premises, and the re-test passed, before it could be driven away.  Anyone proposing to do this would be well advised to inform their insurer of the exact circumstances when completing their proposal details.  This may cause some difficulty.  Otherwise, the vehicle would have to be transported to the test station and, if removed for repair, transported away and so on until it passes the test.  The vehicle must then be taxed as soon as it passes the test.

There is no requirement, that I could find, that would result in a vehicle having to be scrapped merely because it is untaxed and uninsured, providing it has been SORN'd.  If it is on a public road and has no tax, and no insurance, whether or not it has been SORN'd, it is liable to be "uplifted" to the nearest crusher, for which pleasure the registered keeper is liable to receive the bill!

Regarding SORN while abroad, this cannot be done.  It is a requirement that the vehicle is in UK for SORN to be declared.

All the above from the Direct.gov.uk website.

Thanks for the info.My local MOT station offers free collection and delivery so if my vehicle was uninsured I would take advantage of that.

[Patricia]

Too late to edit the post above but I forgot to say thank you Brian. I have emailed DVLA to see if I can clarify the situation.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I am totally confused, I thought we could travel freely throughout the EU, so how would the authorities for example know how long you were in France, or any other EU country. Are our passports logged each time we leave the UK and return to specifically track our time out of the UK, anyone know ?

[Patricia]

As far as I know passports are logged both sides of the channel, vehicles are photographed when boarding, credit cards are traceable e.g. use at petrol stations, autoroute payments and at camp sites. So yes, if they want to trace you they can.

 

I asked the same question of an insurance company many years ago and was told about the photographing. This was because the family had breakdown insurance on two cars and although all were named on both policies we were not allowed to swop cars whilst abroad . The journey had to start and end in the UK. Ridiculous! As it happened we went ahead anyway and, ???? law we had a breakdown, so I had to pretend to be my daughter. The French garage owner, who knew my real name, was completely baffled!

 

Also if you notice you are only allowed to stay out of Britain for one day short of 6 months and that is why the timetables say the ships leave at 23.59 hours. Historically I think this is mainly to do with income tax.