LordThornber Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I'd be really interested to hear your opinions on this, I'll be as brief as possible. Some details i.e. the company name I'll leave out for now. Nov 2008, we completed on a new build investment property, informed by developer that service charge wouldn't be claimed until development completed. Jan 09 Tenant moves in. Mid 2009 development completed. Tenant regularly informs that service is being carried out, i.e. gardening etc. No billing arrives at the property or to us. Feb 2011 tenant hands us a letter from management company, it states that it has been billing an eroneous address for 27 months and has had no response, please pay £****, yes a four figure sum. I contacted them, it transpires that the builder, (a FTSE 100 company), provided the eroneous address. Needless to say I asked why they hadn't merely sent the bill to the property after say a month or two of non payment, they had no answer. I asked for a discount. No chance. Legally I have to pay, I've no argument, the service at the development has been carried out. My argument is this, bearing in mind, none of this is my fault. I believe that the managment company, (my fellow service charge payers shouldn't suffer), should offer a discount, from a moral or poor business practise angle at the very least. They have, so far offered to remove the admin charges (ha!). So to summarise, I have not attempted to avoid payment, I accept they have provided service and that legally I have no leg to stand on. What do you think would be a fair resolution? Thanks for reading. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Unfortunately, I suspect you have to pay although you may be able to ask to pay in instalments. I assume you signed acceptence of the service charges when you completed and you were aware of when they should have started in mid 2009. You did not make any effort to ascertain if these had been sent out, by possibly chatting to another owner, so in some ways I feel you have maybe made your own 'bed' so now have to lie on it. It is a tough old world but you have of course saved the money you would have paid anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-02-27 8:49 PM What do you think would be a fair resolution? That you pay for the services that you received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hi Dave, thanks for the quick response and your opinion. I have no argument with the payment of service charges, my argument is with the mangement companies request for payment after 27 months of failure from them to issue a bill. The agreement clearly states that the company will collect payment. They didn't. We don't visit the development, (no need, our tenant is a professional 100% bona fide guy) so haven't spoken to fellow owners. The only concession (so far) is that they have indeed offered an instalment method of payment. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 colin - 2011-02-27 9:04 PM LordThornber - 2011-02-27 8:49 PM What do you think would be a fair resolution? That you pay for the services that you received. Hi Colin, thanks for your response. My problem with paying is that of course I haven't received all the services. Part of the service is the billing and collection of the fees due. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-02-27 9:16 PM colin - 2011-02-27 9:04 PM LordThornber - 2011-02-27 8:49 PM What do you think would be a fair resolution? That you pay for the services that you received. Hi Colin, thanks for your response. My problem with paying is that of course I haven't received all the services. Part of the service is the billing and collection of the fees due. Martyn What about your tenant? they have been paying you a rent? part of this would be for the services which you have not been paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Hi Colin, the agreement we have with our tenant is that we would pay the service charge. Had we been able to 8-) Our tenant makes no contribution to it, he enjoys a reduced rental amount. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I think that both morally, and in fact, you are obliged to pay what you contracted to pay, no more, no less. After all, you knew there were payments due under the agreement, but appear not to have asked why you had received no bill. As to any interest, admin, or legal charges, they should be told they are the direct consequence of their own incompetence, so they should absorb them. At least, FWIW, that's my two penn'orth! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You have to pay, but seeing as a) the firm billed you at a wrong address, - you could ask for payment to be spread over a similar period, but then there is b) - the fact that you knew the bill had to be paid but ignored its non arrival. It could be said that not trying to chase up a known debt lays some of the onus on you. Best to contact the firm in writing - agree to an all round cock-up and set out how you want to pay - i.e. over how many months. I doubt they will object as long as they have a payment plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Brian/Clive, thanks for your comments. I have wrote to them, (now I know who and where they are, there was no contact details in the agreement!), setting out my view of the situation. I'll keep you posted. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Can you contact others in the same predicament and work together as many voices are generally stronger than one voice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Hi Rich, as far as I'm aware I am the only one in this situation. I've just received a reply from one of the Directors of the company. Basically it's pay up and smile, no surprise there of course, but they've admitted it was the developers fault for providing them with an incorrect address. So I'm going back to the builder now to see what they have to say, I'm not giving up that easy 8-) Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Martyn, you're a naughty boy!!! :D I'm a bit bemused by all of this, basically: - You've received the services, which you totally accept you have to pay for. - You've 'enjoyed' not having to pay for them for over 2 years, thereby saving the money and possibly earning interest on it. - You now have finally received an invoice for the amount due. - The invoice includes a service fee collection charge. - You now want to get a reduction in the service charge you owe them. At the end of the day, they have been carrying out their agreed service by invoicing, albeit to the wrong address, but they have still been doing it, so why do you feel you are entitled to a reduction? If they have indeed agreed that you can pay in instalments (without any interest applied), then why not simply do that, after all, you're the one who's actually benefitted over these 2 years, not them. In reality you should have been chasing this yourself when you didn't get the expected bill, these things don't just go away, having had a rental property for nearly 5 years now I know just how important it is to keep on top of all income and expenditure. As a slight aside - I assume you haven't been declaring the service charge as an expense against your tax bill for the last 2 years? If you haven't, then you can simply declare it for your current year as a bulk charge as far as I'm aware. Is it really worth the time and effort to try to get a reduction, which you are unlikely to get ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-02-27 9:43 PM Hi Colin, the agreement we have with our tenant is that we would pay the service charge. Had we been able to 8-) Our tenant makes no contribution to it, he enjoys a reduced rental amount. Martyn Nevertheless, it IS included in the rent you receive, whether or not it's separately itemised. And I can't see that the tenant dictated the level of the rent to the landlord. Never known that happen anywhere, at least since controlled rents were abolished (allegedly to improve the supply of rented accommodation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Here's the latest. After receiving the pay up and smile e-mail from the Service Charge guys, I have contacted the builder. I asked how much business they put this companies way and she explained that it was in the hundreds of thousands per year. I explained to her that the Service charge guys had placed the blame upon their (the builders) shoulders. She was furious at the fact that they'd done that and that they'd told me about it. Also that they'd taken 27 months for the penny to drop that the account was being sent to the wrong address and agreed with me that part of their responsibility to me is for them to accurately invoice me, by both address and of course by time, 1 per year. Not once in 27 months. She agreed that pressure should be brought to bear upon them on behalf of myself and the fact that the builder is a customer too. Watch this space. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You could try this http://www.27bslash6.com/overdue.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Brilliant! (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Fair solution , Pay the invoice , when you were doing your sums before buying the property you must have allowed this as a cost against your profit so for the past 2 years your quids in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 payment in full to include interest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You have received the goods and/or services, so you must pay. However to recover these costs from you the company has to be prepared to take legal action so to deflect that you write to accept the debt as correct (after you have checked the sums) and you make a reasonable offer to pay the outstanding amount in instatments. What the company has to then consider is if it rejects your offer to pay the debt, will a court find in its favour? so generally if your offer is fair...(geddit), they may accept. If it decides to reject your offer and take the matter to court to recover its money, you then pay in full promptly and look happy, after all you have had, what is called "the quiet enjoyment" of your own money for longer than you had expected. I think this is called a win win for you. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 What an interesting and diverse range of responses so far, I'm really glad I posted on this. What's particularly interesting is the apparent inference from some that I seem to be trying to get away without paying for services rendered. Not so. I'm very happy to pay. But not for the service they have not rendered, i.e. the incorrect billing and their, in my opinion, staggering ineptitude in taking 27 months to spot it. Anyway, the post isn't about me taking issues with any responses, au contraire, I asked for them and thanks again to you all so far. I will update when I have some more news. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Challenge them to an arm wrestling contest...........double or quits :D (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 pelmetman - 2011-02-28 9:18 PM Challenge them to an arm wrestling contest...........double or quits :D (lol) :D Nice one Dave Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You could always send your cheque to the wrong address. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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