pepe63xnotuse Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 If you owe it..and you knew you owed it..well then pay it ;-) (..I can't see much point in doing the "..they said..then she said..to which I replied.." malarky). Just be thankful it isn't a tax or CSA bill!... ..in which case,you probably wouldn't have a pc/laptop to post from!! 8o| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi Martyn Not sure if this is a bit of a red herring but when i bounced your situation off one of our techy resources they came back with two interesting bits of info:- a) the statute of limitations re a late invoice is 6 years - so you do owe the money - but you have never said otherwise. b) however, under the consumer credit act, the invoicing firm, by going over the 12 month period as stated in the Act and NOT invoicing you within that 12 months has effectively given you credit. And so doing is against the consumer credit act unless both parties have a formal credit agreement. This could be why they want you to pay up pronto. Could be worth emailing them back requesting clarification as to what credit terms they are assuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Clive, thankyou very much for that little nugget. I'll keep that in my back pocket for now and see if I have to throw it in the mix. What they offered was for the total amount owed, plus 2012's fees and this to be paid monthly by Jan 2013, no interest charged. So we'd finish paying in Dec 2012 and in Jan 2013 the slate would be clear for us to pay in full again or start a direct debit. Fees are due in January. What also narks me, regardless of whether we have the money or not, (we do), that the monthly payment works out about 130% higher than the normal payment should be had they billed us correctly from Nov 2008. Of course they can argue that we could reduce the size of the payment by paying a lump sum. To those who suggest "just pay up", that's not my way, it may be yours, and I respect that. I'm enjoying the challenge of taking on the role of David, Goliath can b****r off. As ever I'll keep you posted. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Martyn I assume this "goliath" has people working for them in some capacity,admin' etc?..so surely they would've all needed paying? :-S ..or should "goliath" not be paying these employees(..even though "he" has the money but just enjoys a "challenge"!? *-) ). :-S :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Dare I suggest it sounds a bit like you are enjoying this. It is the principle that is the sticking point, not the actual cash. Remonds me of the very old TV programme starring Roy Dotrice as a perpetual defender of cases of principle in front a rather bored Alastair Sims. Anyway, enjoy your 'battle' but just be careful you do not end up with a Pyrrhic victory. You do not want a black mark on your credit rating as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 would you expect the rent owed you if you sent the bill to the wrong address a few times by mistake I suspect you know what is fair pay up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-03-01 9:52 AM What also narks me, regardless of whether we have the money or not, (we do), that the monthly payment works out about 130% higher than the normal payment should be had they billed us correctly from Nov 2008. Martyn Eh? Not sure I understand this. Are you saying they are trying to charge you at higher monthly rate than the original monthly fees were? Or are you saying that in order to clear the debt by December 2012, the overall figure per month from now until then is 130% more that it would normally be over that period, but that the overall total payment up until then is exactly what should have been paid up to that date had they been invoicing you correctly, ie no extra charges or interest etc? It think you mean the latter but just checking! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Quite right Mel, I did mean the latter. Nothing to update with yet 8-) Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Please update us with that you have just payed the bloody bill and unfortunately for you , you have not got out of paying something you know you are legally and morally obliged to pay . THE END Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Please update us with that you have just payed the bloody bill and unfortunately for you , you have not got out of paying something you know you are legally and morally obliged to pay . THE END Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Antony,..... Martyn only has to pay the bill once however late it was :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Well done Sir that tickled me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 antony1969 - 2011-03-01 6:37 PM Well done Sir that tickled me Obviously it was a lame joke on your double post :$ and we all do the odd double post and I have no idea what causes them :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I do , too much wine with your tea ( Dinner if ya posh )l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Having been in a situation where I couldn't actually get the money that was due to the person concerned my solicitor told me at the time to open a separate building society account, pay the money in and wait for them to contact me and when they did to pay in full and spend the interest. That's the way to make it fair or better still turn it into a 'win win' situation (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin9591 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Terry, You are 100% correct in your estimation of the path that would be taken by 99% of us. I cannot, really cannot understand the OP's strange view that he should receive some special dispensation for having avoided a genuine bill for this length of time, especially as he professes to have the means to pay the bill. I would have thought that the risk of damaging his own credit record would make him cough up as soon as he found the correct destination for the service charge. Why he should wish to air his shortcomings in public is another oddity. Best Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 And why you see someone simply asking for others opinions as a "shortcoming" is beyond me as well Colin. The point I would raise again is that there is a potential problem in that once an invoice is over 12 months old, under the Consumer Credit Act, the debt becomes "credit" and at that point the firm that is owed the money technically need a Consumer Credit licence. I have one in the course of my business but not a lot of "service companies" do because they do not expect NOT to be paid for 27 months. So there could be an issue here. Secondly, there is the question of the audit trail. Even if I did owe for the services, I would want to see 27 properly itemised entries on an invoice with a written explanation of why the mistake happened. This should be on headed paper and I would want to contact someone at that company by phone and email to confirm that validity of the invoice. After all, what if someone has twigged that the bills are going astray and has sent out their own scam version? It was not so long ago that someone set up a bank account for a Mr I R Evenue and was milking off cheques to the tax man. The money was taken but the tax bill was still there. Similarly there was a spate of scammers getting hold of individuals Endowment policy details and encashing them without the actual policyholder knowing. First they knew was when they noticed the premium was no longer being collected. This scam was organised by bent employees within the Insurance Company. So before anyone takes the glib advice of someone else to basically "pay up and shut up" - check it out! :-S The poster never said he intended not to pay - but continuing to send out invoices to the wrong address for 27 months indicates a tardiness and lack of attention to detail that would cause me to question carry on using that provider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 CliveH - 2011-03-03 8:20 AM So before anyone takes the glib advice of someone else to basically "pay up and shut up" - check it out! :-S The poster never said he intended not to pay - but continuing to send out invoices to the wrong address for 27 months indicates a tardiness and lack of attention to detail that would cause me to question carry on using that provider. Well,I don't really see how having the opinion that you should pay what you owe,is being "glib"... :-S .. I always find it amusing that people are keen to use "technicalities" when it suits them(..in this case it now appears to be something about the unpaid bill coming under the Consumer Credit Act?..and needing a 'Credit License?.:-S ),where as, if the position was reversed and if for arguments' sake,this was to do with a Mh manufacture using some obscure clause to avoid paying in a warranty dispute..then the OP would be up in arms! *-) I suppose it's as the great Homer Simpson once said(and I paraphrase here), "..they can't convict you on a technicality?!..everyone knows you should only get off on one..!" ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 It is very simple Pepe - to give credit on a financial transaction in the UK you need to have a Consumer Credit License. When you have a sum owed for more than a twelve months under UK law this becomes a credit arrangement and technically terms of credit have to be issued. When, in this case the bill was not settled after 12 months, the company concerned should have twigged that something was wrong and the debt restructured. The fact that this did not happen indicates that the company concerned had very poor administration and checking procedures as well as possibly acting unlawfully under the Consumer Credit Act. As for "paying what you owe" - I have no problem with that - what concerns me is that after 27 months any sensible person would check out that the whole thing is not a scam. But I suppose if you maybe have more money than sense - perhaps I could send you a scam invoice Pepe - and if you could see your way to paying it?? (lol) (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Well,I certainly agree with you that this company's admin' need a swift kick up the backside... ;-) However(..and I may've missed this somewhere :$ ),I didn't realise we were talking about a supsected scam here?..not until you'd mentioned it?...especially seeing as Martyn says that he has been in contact with them ? Where does Martyn mention that he thinks that he's being scammed? :-S So,again,if when paying what I know I owe..to whom I know I owe it,would mean I have "more money than sense",then I'm gulity as charged! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Colin9591 - 2011-03-03 12:11 AM I cannot, really cannot understand the OP's strange view that he should receive some special dispensation for having avoided a genuine bill for this length of time, especially as he professes to have the means to pay the bill. I would have thought that the risk of damaging his own credit record would make him cough up as soon as he found the correct destination for the service charge. Why he should wish to air his shortcomings in public is another oddity. Best Regards I only asked, "What is fair"? If you need to take the view that my take on matters is, "strange", well so be it, but that doesn't answer my question. Special dispensation you say, well perhaps you're one of these folk who, if a regular bill is late, you're on the phone asking where it is. Fine, good for you. But ours wasn't late, or anything else, it didn't appear at all. The fees we pay to this company, (when we can) are well into four figures p.a. and for that sort of money I expected an invoice to arrive, A, on time and B, to the correct address which we supplied. But I'm not. I'm quite happy to have been investing the money in a Far East Fund which has returned an annualised percentage growth of just over 20%. As for me airing my shortcomings, well I suspect rather than me that has, it's yourself. It may interest you to know that we're in the process of taking legal advice. This is for compensation relating to the distress and injury to our feelings caused by the inference of the company that we were responsible for the account not being settled. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-03-03 7:03 PM It may interest you to know that we're in the process of taking legal advice. This is for compensation relating to the distress and injury to our feelings caused by the inference of the company that we were responsible for the account not being settled. Martyn Sorry Martyn, whilst I appreciate that you being accused of being the main cause of this is more than likely to be hurtful, surely this is just making things worse. You've benefit from being able to invest the money and you still want MORE! You have to bear some responsibility for not chasing to make sure that you received the invoices when you should. Not getting them for a month or two is one thing, but 27 months is taking things a bit far ... just be careful it doesn't come back to bite you ..... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Meanwhile the poor workers are losing jobs because people like you are looking for a get out so you do not have to pay what you know you owe,well I think what goes around comes around 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 pepe63 - 2011-03-03 2:12 PM Well,I certainly agree with you that this company's admin' need a swift kick up the backside... ;-) However(..and I may've missed this somewhere :$ ),I didn't realise we were talking about a supsected scam here?..not until you'd mentioned it?...especially seeing as Martyn says that he has been in contact with them ? Where does Martyn mention that he thinks that he's being scammed? :-S So,again,if when paying what I know I owe..to whom I know I owe it,would mean I have "more money than sense",then I'm gulity as charged! ;-) OK - so you do not hear from a company for 27 months - that is 2 years 3 months and then they suddenly send you a bill. And you just go "Off course! - let me find my cheque book!!" 8-) As for the scam angle - I mentioned it because it is not unknown for scam artists to send out fake invoices. And they like nothing better than to make their scam invoices as close to reality as possible. I see those that shout "just pay up" as potentially gullible, and all too free with their (and in this case) someone else’s money. And those of us with a more cautious nature and want to ensure our hard won cash is not wasted get accused of being one of the causes people are losing their jobs. When in fact people are losing their jobs because the powers that be acted irresponsibly with others money - Hmmmmmmmmmm - I see the similarity!!(lol) And if you want more info on fake invoice scams – have a look at http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/protect-your-business-from-scams/types/fake and if you google “Fake Invoice” – you get links to Fake invoice generators so you can set up a nice little scam yourself if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 ..eh!? So now,not only are we "glib" but it now appears that paying what you owe also makes us "gullible"?? .. :-S Nobody on here saying Martin should be the bill without checking it out first! ...and I still don't see why you continue to go down the "scam" route? :-S And as for Martyn's "hard earned cash"..well.I'm sure he'll be the first to admit that his 20% annual growth from his "Far East Fund",isn't exactly "working at the coal face" ! *-) (..although looking at it again,I do now feel somewhat gullible,for being sucked into this thread,as I'm now seeing for the windup it is.. *-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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