HWO Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi all In the process of trading in a fully winterised Euramobil with tanks within the heated double floors for an Autotrail with underslung tanks. My query is how will I get on thro a British winter. I am not thinking about going to the Alps or anything like that. I can see that I will be able to do without the waste tanks and use an external container of some sort, But how about and fresh tank? Would I need a heater for British frost or is the tank near enough to the heated floor to not freeze. So it's over to you underslungers' how did you manage thro the last winter that we have just suffered' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnerontheroad Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 This someone's experiance this winter with an Autotrail http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=22520&posts=5 Good Luck Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 You are exchanging a well engineered relatively light weight modern construction (aluminium framed with Grp wall/roof and floors) fully winterised 4 season van, with heated double floor etc...for a UK built old fashioned heavy wood construction camper....... what is the payload like I wonder? the mind boggles *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmaggott Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Uh, Oh! This is not the site to discuss Autotrail! If I were you I would try another route. We tend not to use our's in the depths of winter and we don't go ski-ing with it, so I can't really help sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWO Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi Again Well judge I thought that I was buying a well engineered bit of kit that would last a long time. I am not so sure that was the case. Yes the water tanks did'nt freeze up when we were away,but there was a number of other problems. Me thinks that the Germans reputation goes too far ahead of them sometimes. The Autotrail is built on the 4000Kg chassis, so that won't be a problem,unlike the majority of continental vans that are shoe-horned onto the 3500Kg and ending up with 25Kg of payload. Anyway time will tell HWO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi Howard, to actually answer your question.......... We've winter camped with our underslung tank with varying degrees of success. It's hit and miss to be honest, you've got it right with the waste, but of course the pipes on that can freeze rendering the waste container useless anyway. The fresh water, well ours has frozen completely about a dozen times over the 8 years of ownership. We've never found it that big a problem to justify fitting tank heaters or scrubbing around underneath with lagging etc, nothing against those that do go down the lagging road, it's just not my way. So to summarise, you can still camp even with an underslung tank, even in this years weather, it only froze 2 nights out of 4 for us. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I think CAK tanks do aftermarket insulation kits for external tanks including a heater element....should be a dealer option? The thing I will miss most with our downsizing to a PVC is the underfloor heating...particularly in the middle of the night on a toilet visit :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 LordThornber - it only froze 2 nights out of 4 for us. Martyn Martyn, you only live about 15miles from us, besides the £250 winter allowance, we have had 3 cold weather payments as well. Don't tell me you've been sunbathing in Blackburn, while I've been freezing my nuts off up here. :-DDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 HWO - 2011-03-01 4:55 PM Hi all In the process of trading in a fully winterised Euramobil with tanks within the heated double floors for an Autotrail with underslung tanks. My query is how will I get on thro a British winter. I am not thinking about going to the Alps or anything like that. I can see that I will be able to do without the waste tanks and use an external container of some sort, But how about and fresh tank? Would I need a heater for British frost or is the tank near enough to the heated floor to not freeze. So it's over to you underslungers' how did you manage thro the last winter that we have just suffered' Not sure about the Autotrail but our Swift is ok down to a few degrees below zero with tank heaters fitted and some insulation to fresh water outlet pipe. It has never frozen during the few winter trips we have made, not sure it would have fared to well during some of this winter though. Have to say we rarely use in winter so do not see the need to spends ten thousands of pounds extra on a continental van just because it has full insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi Howard (HWO) Have a look at this thread for some info regarding Heaters for underfloor tanks. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=21437&start=1 I can't see the "Winter Kit" as an option from Autotrail, but see the links to CAK. Hope you find it useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-03-01 5:50 PM You are exchanging a well engineered relatively light weight modern construction (aluminium framed with Grp wall/roof and floors) fully winterised 4 season van, with heated double floor etc...for a UK built old fashioned heavy wood construction camper....... what is the payload like I wonder? the mind boggles *-)Not what the o/p is asking, but I have to say the same thought crossed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 It's not only the tanks that you need to think of, but the piping too which can freeze in winter and do damage to the system. The other thing to consider is that the tanks will more than likely be half the size of the tanks on your current van too .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody. Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Ive had 3 large autotrails the last one being a cheiftain , i use them all year mostly without hook up and never had a problem , perhaps ive been lucky . Since retiring ive downsized to a swift bolero , which has heated tanks , but to be honest i havent used the tank heaters yet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Don,t do it! We traded in our beloved Autotrail Scout for a used Concorde with double floors because the underslung tank froze solid at the NEC a few years back. One is a summer vehicle, the other an all year vehicle suitable for a skiing holiday if required. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The factor that seems to be escaping attention, is that weather is weather, and in the UK is notoriously fickle.With an underslung tank, and a mild winter, all will be fine. However, if you encounter unusual cold while away, particularly if it is windy, and even more if the tank is not full it, or any pipes exposed beneath the floor, will freeze.Clive is maybe a bit unkind saying it is a "summer van", but as supplied they are no better than three season vans, and AFAIK, they do not claim anything more.If you want to survive the winter, even in UK and even at low altitude in the South, will will need a van constructed for winter conditions. Most UK vans are not, and quite a few of those that claim to be still require a "winter pack" to be added at the buyers expense before they pass muster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Have to agree with Eddie, Clive & Brian, if you are thinking about doing any winter camping don't even think about a British van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuevoboy Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Hope I'm not tempting fate here as we're going away again this weekend and who knows what the temperatures will be. *-) However, we survived minus 15 degrees in December and minus 7 in January. We've only got a "British 'van" but coped perfectly well. OK, we didn't have any water actually in the tanks, but what's the hardship of having a can in the 'van for drinking and cooking and using the showers on the excellent CC sites that are open at that time of the year? I must admit if looking for another 'van I would be tempted to look for a "winterised" one, and thought there was a great idea from someone on another thread recently, suggesting 'vans have "tog ratings" as it would make things a bit more transparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 A serious suggestion here folks, If you have a van with an underslung tank and want to do a bit of winer camping how about a tidy temporary arrangement. Put a 25 litre water can (those rectangular ones OK) in the bottom of the wardrobe and pop a subersible pump in through the filler. A bit of temporary plumbing and wiringand you have a van with an inboard tank, all be it a little small but still quite effective if it freezes.. Just lift it out to re-fill it. Travel with the pump out and the cap on. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 nowtelse2do - 2011-03-01 8:58 PMLordThornber - it only froze 2 nights out of 4 for us. Martyn Martyn, you only live about 15miles from us, besides the £250 winter allowance, we have had 3 cold weather payments as well. Don't tell me you've been sunbathing in Blackburn, while I've been freezing my nuts off up here. :-DDave2 out the four nights it froze whilst away camping Dave, or were you just being daft? :D Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-03-02 9:09 AM Have to agree with Eddie, Clive & Brian, if you are thinking about doing any winter camping don't even think about a British van. I disagree. Depends on how you term winter, and where. We camp all year round in our Autosleeper, we're certainly warm enough, it's only freezing fresh and waste tanks that interrupts and even then only an odd night. This is in the UK, not for a second am I suggesting regular sub zero camping say in the Alps etc. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
How Much Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Clive - 2011-03-02 5:32 PM A serious suggestion here folks, If you have a van with an underslung tank and want to do a bit of winer camping how about a tidy temporary arrangement. Put a 25 litre water can (those rectangular ones OK) in the bottom of the wardrobe and pop a subersible pump in through the filler. A bit of temporary plumbing and wiringand you have a van with an inboard tank, all be it a little small but still quite effective if it freezes.. Just lift it out to re-fill it. Travel with the pump out and the cap on. C. I dont camp in winter, but i do use this method for refilling my fresh water tank - plugged into a socket on the van wall next to the filler. Saves trailing about with all those watering cans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbotham Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Awful lot of undue pessimism here IMHO. I've got an Autotrail Cheyenne that I bought last October. The tanks are underslung, but insulated. I paid for a heater to be installed in the freshwater, but on grey waste just let it run into a bucket. I had intended replying on the other thread this evening to query whether the poster had the heater upgrade...if without it I'm not surprised things froze. It's early days yet, but it's been used throughout the winter and I've been out when nights have been down to minus 8 and everything worked (with water in the tanks). Maybe I was lucky. As an aside, on our old Elddis van with underslung tanks and no insulation, it was minus 3 before anything froze. The Euro vans are undoubtedly better insulated, but to suggest that British ones are suitable only for 3 season use in the UK is way over-stating it. Would I go Euro if I intended to go skiing in mainland Europe? Yes. But for UK usage, I'd be more concerned with things like layout. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Our previous IH Tio RL had underslung tanks that were wrapped in silver insulation - not sure of their make. We were caught in the big December freeze of 2009 at Grassington with a foot of snow, day time temps never rising above freezing and night time temps of -7. The waste tank was left open and drained straight into a plastic waste container - BUT make sure this is emptied each evening or you wake to a giant black plastic coated lollipop! The fresh tank survived for the first three days and nights but eventually did freeze. As it turned out though it was not the tank but a tiny bit of (insulated) supply pipe where it entered the underbed compartment where the pump is located. Our new Tio RL has a new type of underslung tanks which, apparently, have a thicker wall which the supplier advocates will resist freezing temperatures down to -15. We did, however, take the precaution of having 12v tank heaters fitted. Once again we were caught in the freezing temps of December last year but without any freeezing up even though I didn't use the heaters. Have to say we have had several british vans and always camped all year round. This latest van is so well insulated that the heating has to be turned down through the night! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 david lloyd - 2011-03-02 8:56 PM Have to say we have had several british vans and always camped all year round. This latest van is so well insulated that the heating has to be turned down through the night! It can't be that well insulated if you are having to run the heating at night. We have never needed to run our heating overnight . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-03-03 9:44 AM david lloyd - 2011-03-02 8:56 PM Have to say we have had several british vans and always camped all year round. This latest van is so well insulated that the heating has to be turned down through the night! It can't be that well insulated if you are having to run the heating at night. We have never needed to run our heating overnight . Ah, but old bones in temps of -7 (not to mention the chill factor from the icy winds of december) has started to get to us. The heating is left ticking over partly for the purpose of keeping Josie the King Charles Cavalier warm in the cab area which always suffers lower temperatures in whatever van we have had. Remember, this panel van is a TIN BOX and therefore prone attracting the cold whereas other materials may not be as bad - but, even with a coachbuilt of certain British origin we had to have the heating ON FULL! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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