Guest Tracker Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Watch this space for new government incentives to use such technology as air / ground source heat pumps and solar thermal hot water systems. http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/what_we_do/uk_supply/energy_mix/renewable/policy/incentive/incentive.aspx http://www.decc.gov.uk/ http://www.rhincentive.co.uk/RHI/ This opens the door to use the solar electricity we each generate - should we choose to - to partly power our own electric powered heating systems whilst being paid 41.3 p per kw - rising to 43.3 p per kw on April 1st - to do so! No more heating oil dependence - and who needs gas? To say that I like the sound of that is an understatement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Amongst all the learned electrical experts out there does anyone have any experience of these? One of the companies quoting us for PV panels has offered to fit one for us all included in the price - which is a good deal anyway without extra gizmos. To say that I am sceptical of it's claims would be an understatement! http://www.vphase.co.uk/faqs/how-does-vphase-work- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Except it's all b*llocks. It'd cost you about 12k up front just to get a few panels fitted. If you get a company to rent your roof space it's about at least a 25Yr contract. Try selling your house with that encumbrance. If the government is offering money for the subsidy, there's got to be a catch. You get out for nought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 You are entitled to your view Peter and I am entitled to disagree with you. I am not into rent a roof and the returns on investment on PV panels - soon to be followed by other forms of heat generation are worthwhile. It also seems that they now add value to properties that have them - although estimates of just how much vary from nowt to quite a lot! It must be cheaper for the government to subsidise us to generate our own power and heat than for them to build a string of Nuclear Power Stations - and then to decommission them at the end of their working life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 peter - 2011-03-08 8:30 PM Except it's all b*llocks. It'd cost you about 12k up front just to get a few panels fitted. If you get a company to rent your roof space it's about at least a 25Yr contract. Try selling your house with that encumbrance. If the government is offering money for the subsidy, there's got to be a catch. You get out for nought. Peter If it did cost you 12k to put them up onto your roof can you match thier predicted return if you kept your money anywhere else and also at the same time become semi independent of the greedy power suppliers ever increasing prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Our next door neighbour (a retired engineer with a PhD - so he seems to know a thing or two and is certainly able to analyse the pros and cons of the idea) had an air based heat exchanger fitted about a year ago. I had never heard of air based H/E'ers but had come across ground based ones whose advantages were clear but the size and cost of them to install large. This air based H/E'er seems to work well, but I still have not managed to have a chat with him about how it worked in the very cold weather we had. He had to get planning permission and as neighbours we had to say we had no objection. The reason for this is that when working a pump does make a noise. We do not hear it but when walking the dogs late at night you can easily hear the low thrumming noise. Not something I would want outside my window - but as it is on the other side of his bungalow and he has no housing adjacent on that side - it creates no real problem. I have often said that I believe home generation is the way to go - I just do not believe any government can be trusted to play fair. I hope I am wrong. Having looked at it - renting roof space for solar panels is not a good bet. But getting a grant and paying for your own (that you can take down and move to another property if you need to) is a far better bet. A £12K cost to wipe out a fuel bill of £200 a quarter or £800 a year represents a return of 6.66% pa. At that rate it would take 15 years to get your money back. So if you had £12K in the building society currently, with today’s interest rates being far lower than 6% after tax, you would be far better off investing in your own solar panels. And that does not take into account any payment for excess power generated. Just DO MAKE SURE YOU BUY WISELY!!! – There are a huge number of cowboy companies jumping on this latest bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 My neighbour and I are working together to get a PV system and the first quote came in at just under £20,000 - which quickly fell to £16000 when I accused the guy of a try on! Since then we have spoken to several others and we currently stand at just under £13,500 for a 4 kwp PV system which is much better - but I still think I can get them down to, or under, our target price of £13,000! Deals are out there in what is rapidly developing into a very competitive market and all you have to do is find them! The FIT goes up from 41.3 p to 43.3 p per kw generated - which rises to 46.4 p if you export it instead of using it - as from1st April - index linked and guaranteed for 25 years! I think I'll have some of that - and just hope I live another 25 years!! Jury's still out on thermal and heat exchangers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 We had an Agent/rep of a Solar Energy come out and explain the pro,s and con,s to us (we are oil dependant for hot water and heating) after the spiel of their,s being the best Panels made in Germany the crunch came with the price of £16,000 fitted up and running, we told him we get around three quotes before committing ourselves, so he offered me a deal which brought the price down to £12.000, I still wouldnt jump, he left. the following quotes all came in around £12,000 for 3 kWh,as per Richards with a feed in to national grid tariff, the problem I have is although we love it where we are, we know the place is going to be too big for us the older we get, with near 3/4 acre of grass to mow even with a ride on mower its still some task,so a final move is on the cards, therefore the outlay would never be recouped, maybe in our next Place, but I think Solar is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 As the benefits to the house owner of solar become better understood I expect / hope that value will be added to the property which might partly at least offset the cost. Talking to two estate agents recently that is the way that they see it as well but time will tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Just what are Feed In Tariff’s? Dear Syd, While everyone in the heat pump business is waiting for the long delayed final details from the Government of the Renewable Heat Incentive (RHI), the Feed in Tariff (FiT) is already up and running. The FiT pays householders a subsidy for using Solar Photovoltaics (Solar PV) to generate electricity. This electricity is then used within your property and any excess is fed into the national grid. The subsidy is 41.3p per kWhr and means the average 3kW system would provide an annual income of around £1,200-£1,500 pa for the next 25 years. Additionally the payments are indexed linked to the RPI and are free of income tax. This makes them a great long term investment. Costs of a 3kW system are around £12-13,000 giving a significant long term return of between 6 and 9 %. If you would like more information on Solar PV please give Ice Energy a call on 0808 145 2345 asking for Pete Steele or you can click here to request more information. David Hutchinson Ice Energy Heat Pumps 01865 882202 This email was sent by: Ice Energy, Unit 2 Oakfield House, Oakfield Industrial Estate, Eynsham, Oxfordshire OX29 4TH, UNITED KINGDOM Click here to unsubscribe from this list Reply Forward Ice EnergyLoading...Mar 8 (1 day ago) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 That's almost right Syd! The solar PV for generating FIT rises to 43.3 p per kw on 1st April and this will be 46.4 p for every kw you don't use yourself but do export into the grid. It's very competitive as word spreads and prices are falling such that you should be able to get a good 4 kwp system for around £13000. There is not enough data on heat pumps / exchangers or solar thermal water heating to be definitive as yet but it looks promising. However there are noise issues to consider with heat pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I am surprised no one has come up with a mobile system that could be moved from house to house :D Thats the only kind of system I would be interested in B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 We had a solar panel fitted to our house in the UK but found as we have a combi-boiler, despite the assurances from the fitting company, we were getting no benefit from it so have now taken it off the roof and will take it to use in France - more sun there too and no combi-boilers. We are hoping to use ground source heating when we convert the biggest barn to our eventual home and all the research shows it should be fairly easy to install all the pipes necessary - with a little help from our local farmer and his lovely tractor, to dig the trenches of course... :-D The French government is VERY pro energy saving schemes and as a resident you can reclaim a large percentage of the installation and purchase costs of such a scheme back against any French tax due. Definitley a move in the right direction. B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I take it you mean a thermal solar water heating panel Jenny? The benefit to cost ratio of these is very iffy in the UK as I see it - until the RHI tariff starts giving us money to use them - unless you have a large family using lots of hot water when the sun is shining! The control system is everything and if the boiler comes on early in the morning and heats the water before the sun gets up there is not a lot left for the solar thermal to do? I think the sometimes unscrupulous selling of thermal systems has impacted upon the case, and created some cynicism, for photo voltaic solar panels - i.e. those that generate electricity rather than heat water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Tracker - 2011-03-10 1:54 PM I take it you mean a thermal solar water heating panel Jenny? The benefit to cost ratio of these is very iffy in the UK as I see it - until the RHI tariff starts giving us money to use them - unless you have a large family using lots of hot water when the sun is shining! The control system is everything and if the boiler comes on early in the morning and heats the water before the sun gets up there is not a lot left for the solar thermal to do? I think the sometimes unscrupulous selling of thermal systems has impacted upon the case, and created some cynicism, for photo voltaic solar panels - i.e. those that generate electricity rather than heat water. Definitely what I meant Rich - no boiler for the French house - both useless so to be dumped, just a hot water tank so the panel will be plumbed to the tank? Hopefully plenty of sunshine....... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 No further comment, except to say that if PV Panels were that great people would be falling over themselves to fit them. As for the payback figures, what are you basing these on? I mean how do you know the efficiency of the panels when there's no sun in the U/K most of the time. Look at the efficiency of ones on peoples M/H's, not that good is it?. But good enough for the flexibility it gives, and payback is not an issue. But on a house it certainly is. That is my final comment, as those that are sold on it will get it no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 New Combi being fitted on Tuesday, looking forward to that. things must be getting hard when they are offering £500 off without even being asked Hi Syd Since we last spoke: The feed in tariff has increased will be 43.3pence from April 1st, I have 2 slots to fill in the fitting diary for April, I can offer you an additional £500 off any quote if you can take delivery before the end of next month? Let me know asap regards John McWhinnie Energy ConsultantPv Surveyor/DEAPlanet Solar LtdM:07889 410 281 T: 01772 643900 F: 01772 456815 E: john.mcwhinnie@planetsolar.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 hi tracker have you bought a system yet. My daughter works for a well established renewble energy firm in mid wales and keeps telling me to do it. I am serious about it but we will have to get a new roof first which is danting but it will have to be done sometime anyway. We are considering intergrated panels then. Still in a dilema but know it is a no brainer if you have the money and are staying put in your house. We have a south facing roof with no shade. My daughters firm would fit it and I can guarantee they do no pressure selling at all. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postnote Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Why not a wind generator. (?) We had one made by a friend who is a glass fibre expert. Sits on the roof of the motor home, tube openings face front and back. Within is a small 3-bladded fan arrangement with built in generator. It has been mistaken for a Sat dome from the side. Not much use when parked unless windy and facing the right way (although suppose someone could design a swivel system) but great when driving along. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aultymer Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 postnote - 2011-07-02 10:11 AM Why not a wind generator. (?) We had one made by a friend who is a glass fibre expert. Sits on the roof of the motor home, tube openings face front and back. Within is a small 3-bladded fan arrangement with built in generator. It has been mistaken for a Sat dome from the side. Not much use when parked unless windy and facing the right way (although suppose someone could design a swivel system) but great when driving along. ;-) This IS a wind up - please tell me it is a wind up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postnote Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 aultymer - 2011-07-02 10:33 AM postnote - 2011-07-02 10:11 AM Why not a wind generator. (?) We had one made by a friend who is a glass fibre expert. Sits on the roof of the motor home, tube openings face front and back. Within is a small 3-bladded fan arrangement with built in generator. It has been mistaken for a Sat dome from the side. Not much use when parked unless windy and facing the right way (although suppose someone could design a swivel system) but great when driving along. ;-) This IS a wind up - please tell me it is a wind up! If enough people are interested I'll post the diagram B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 chris - 2011-07-02 9:06 AM hi tracker have you bought a system yet. My daughter works for a well established renewble energy firm in mid wales and keeps telling me to do it. I am serious about it but we will have to get a new roof first which is danting but it will have to be done sometime anyway. We are considering intergrated panels then. Still in a dilema but know it is a no brainer if you have the money and are staying put in your house. We have a south facing roof with no shade. My daughters firm would fit it and I can guarantee they do no pressure selling at all. Chris Hi Chris Can I just mention to you that if you do decide to have your roof done you should get Kingspan insulation put underneath the slates, if done while the roof is already stripped it doesn't cost so much. We had ours done and within two days you could actually feel the extra warmth in the house. Our gas and electric bills for the quarter always averaged £300 to £450 each, this quarters bills for both gas and electric together was a mere £238, now that is a REAL saving isn't it, we have now had a Combi boiler fitted so we are expecting the bills to drop even further as we now no longer have two electric showers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Tyke Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Solar panels? Right. 3kW system. Units available for £2 /W on flee bay so that's a cost of £6k. (Now I expect that an installation group will get them cheaper, much cheaper) That leaves £6K from what I've gathered to cover the cost of the regulator/inverter/ control system and a couple of days for installation........and pay the sales staff............To me that could be quite a good profit. There may be other incentives provided by the government. So, it appears that it is a good business to be in...ie very profitable.! No wonder that it is being "Pushed" by installers and the Gov. This coupled with the fact that green is "in" and an incentive to get involved provided is by the Government. (All the Gov cash is coming of out energy bills by the way) and it is a "decent return" on your cash then it seems to be a good idea. Maybe it is. But, the 3kW is an optimum figure. Come winter it will be much, much less and this is the time that the "Free energy" is needed. By both the individual and the country. My advice... reduce your energy "used" before looking for so called free solutions. (If we all do this then the price of energy will have to go up to ensure that the stakeholders proffits do not go down and pension funds reduce) The only system that I would consider at the moment is an air source heat pump. From figures given by a fellow Grumpy he expects to get full return on his costs in six years. It heats his underfloor heating and provides 55 degrees C for his hot water. He has to heat up the hot water tank once a week to remove any possible Legionnaires bugs that may be around. I'm not a party pooper but this green thing seems to be a way of parting people from their cash - if it gives jobs to people at the same time, providing revenue for HMG and giving people a warm glow for "saving the planet" then any Gov is going to push it. Especially if it can be "funded" by energy bills............that we all pay for! Brilliant. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Get a multifuel stove, cheap heat/hot water, and you can cook your dinner on it :D In the winter we sit in our sun lounge at night with one low wattage bulb and the telly, and the stove going on free wood B-) Warm as toast looking at the stars :D................."Thrift is for life not just for Christmas"............. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Travelling Tyke - 2011-07-02 12:17 PM Solar panels? Right. 3kW system. Units available for £2 /W on flee bay so that's a cost of £6k. (Now I expect that an installation group will get them cheaper, much cheaper) That leaves £6K from what I've gathered to cover the cost of the regulator/inverter/ control system and a couple of days for installation........and pay the sales staff............To me that could be quite a good profit. There may be other incentives provided by the government. So, it appears that it is a good business to be in...ie very profitable.! No wonder that it is being "Pushed" by installers and the Gov. This coupled with the fact that green is "in" and an incentive to get involved provided is by the Government. (All the Gov cash is coming of out energy bills by the way) and it is a "decent return" on your cash then it seems to be a good idea. Maybe it is. But, the 3kW is an optimum figure. Come winter it will be much, much less and this is the time that the "Free energy" is needed. By both the individual and the country. My advice... reduce your energy "used" before looking for so called free solutions. (If we all do this then the price of energy will have to go up to ensure that the stakeholders proffits do not go down and pension funds reduce) The only system that I would consider at the moment is an air source heat pump. From figures given by a fellow Grumpy he expects to get full return on his costs in six years. It heats his underfloor heating and provides 55 degrees C for his hot water. He has to heat up the hot water tank once a week to remove any possible Legionnaires bugs that may be around. I'm not a party pooper but this green thing seems to be a way of parting people from their cash - if it gives jobs to people at the same time, providing revenue for HMG and giving people a warm glow for "saving the planet" then any Gov is going to push it. Especially if it can be "funded" by energy bills............that we all pay for! Brilliant. :-D Ah, at last some common sense! All I'd add is who pays the FIT? Oh yes, it's the energy companies. So they buy at uneconomic rates per kWh, but still sell back at their standard rate. And this will continue whatever the rate of take up? Dream on! Come on people, these schemes stink, and are designed solely to allow the UK government to claim movement toward international undertakings it gave with no idea how they were to be achieved. These schemes will cost consumers and taxpayers dear over time and, when the energy deployed in making and installing the various devices is taken into account, will prove, IMO, about as green as a Fukushima reactor! IMO, this is greenwash of the first order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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