Golfer Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hi, On Thursday past, even though the battery was fully charged, I could not start my motorhome. The glow plug light on the dashboard did not come on at all and both the ASR and ABS lights came on but did not go off with a message saying "Unavailable". I tried everything I could think of before calling out the RAC. He came out and also tried, but to no avail... A pick-up truck took the motorhome into town to the Fiat garage. The diagnosis was that since water had got into the engine compartment and corroded a computer plug and its connections with the dashboard, we would require a new ECU: £479 + VAT; a new wiring loom: £252 + VAT & 6 hours labour @ £70/ hour + VAT - a total of £1381.20. Has anyone any experience of this type of problem and / or a cheaper solution please? Regards Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hi. Sometimes you can get away with just disconnecting the plugs and sockets and thoroughly cleaning them, preferably with a switch cleaning agent. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Thanks Brian, I asked the man at the garage if this would be possible but he just shook his head and said that, in his experience, it might work but for how long... I just wasn't convinced that a repair job would not do the trick. I will try and attach photo I took of the offending connection whilst I was at the garage. Thanks Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Try again... apologies, but the server has encountered a problem... No photo! I have reduced the quality of the photo and it seems to have worked Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Brian, By a switch cleaning agent do you mean something like a spray can of Servisol 10 Cleaning Lubricant? Regards Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Hi, Make sure you disconnect the battery first, yes you can use Aero 50 cleaner connect and disconnect a number of times until clean. more important all the plug in leads need to be done on the looms in the bay plus the fuse box at the back of your hand in the photo. this will take some time but can save you the cost of new ecu and loom and fuse box. It works but be careful make a diagram or photo of each item before you carry out the work on it, all earths need to be opened and cleaned Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Hi Stewart. Yes super 10 is fine , just follow the proceedure outlined by Brendan, it's worth a try before all that expense, particulary in your case as it seems to have survived the getting wet bit . It now appears to be suffering from the after effect of tarnishing and corrosion. Brian B. PS A usefull tool is a stiff haired small paint brush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Golfer - 2011-03-13 10:28 AM Hi, On Thursday past, even though the battery was fully charged, I could not start my motorhome. The glow plug light on the dashboard did not come on at all and both the ASR and ABS lights came on but did not go off with a message saying "Unavailable". I tried everything I could think of before calling out the RAC. He came out and also tried, but to no avail... A pick-up truck took the motorhome into town to the Fiat garage. The diagnosis was that since water had got into the engine compartment and corroded a computer plug and its connections with the dashboard, we would require a new ECU: £479 + VAT; a new wiring loom: £252 + VAT & 6 hours labour @ £70/ hour + VAT - a total of £1381.20. Has anyone any experience of this type of problem and / or a cheaper solution please? Regards Stewart Stewart, What year is your Fiat ? is it the X250 that was plagued by 'water fall' problems under the bonnet ? I have a 2005 Peugeot and am anxious that I don't suffer the same fate. Any 'with hindsight' suggestions. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Stewart, how long have you had the van, do you know its history (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 Hi Brian & Brendan, Many thanks for your comments - good advice! The problem is that the garage has already ordered (what I thought were new parts) and when I went in today to collect the old ECU, I was told that £479 + VAT is the price of a reconditioned computer and a new one would cost double that, and, if I wanted the old one back, it would cost me fifty pounds more as they send these back in part exchange!!! I then had a look inside the motorhome engine compartment only to find that both the ECU and the loom had already been stripped out... Fiat accompli! I'm afraid that your advice has come too late. Hi Ray, Yes it is a x250 model & what probably hasn't helped is that the motorhome has been sitting on my driveway facing West and on a slight upslope so any time there's been a westerly gale the rain must have been forced up under the bonnet. I'm going to get a cover for the engine (either inside or out, I'm not sure which will be best, yet...) Dave, Sue & Troy, I bought it in 2008 and I've had it since new. Many thanks, but it looks like my options have now been cut somewhat. Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 I think it is unreasonable for the connector to only have survived a few years. These connectors are supposed to be waterproof , well splash proof anyway, so clearly it was faulty. I would be fighting to get Fiat to cover the cost and replace under warranty. I think you have a good leg to stand on legally. They should last the life of the vehicle and are designed to do so. I would argue 4 or 5 years before say a minor repair is required, hence Fiat should cover the full cost. Discuss with them politely and stand your ground that this is an abnormal failure and clearly is due to faulty manufactured parts or was not assembled correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Golfer - 2011-03-15 11:42 PM ......only to find that both the ECU and the loom had already been stripped out... Fiat accompli! Stewart :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 There are a number of earlier threads concerning water ingress to the engine bay, mainly concerned about corrosion of the cylinder head around the injectors. Certain modifications were carried out by Fiat and Peugeot, some at a cost to the customer. A forum search using keywords "Fiat" and "water", selecting "Motorhome Matters" and "All posts" as the options may be of further help. However, the following two have pictures that may help you identify if your van has had the necessary bits added. If it has not, you may wish to discuss with the dealer who services it why not, as it seems possible their absence may have some bearing on your present problem. http://tinyurl.com/6832rr3 http://tinyurl.com/6fjusy9If none of the mods is present (one of which was, I believe, peculiar to Peugeot and was chargeable) I wonder where that leaves Fiat and the dealer vis a vis the warranty, if their earlier intervention (under warranty) could have prevented the present problem. After all, they knew about the problem of water ingress, they knew there was a fix, and the dealer should have spotted the signs of corrosion while servicing the van, and so been aware the fix was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Brambles and Brian, I'll take these suggestions forward once the garage has finished the work. I've had the motorhome in before for a number of 'remedies' but not the one about ingress of water to the engine compartment! Many thanks Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 As it is a 2008 van it should have all the water mods assuming the chassis was made in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 From my own experience, main dealers do not always let you know about recalls *-) I finally had a problem cured which I thought was due to dirty fuel, but turned out to be a mod that the main dealer should of sorted years ago! but was picked up by the independant garage I use now *-) I no longer bother with main dealers and haven't for 6 years and saved a fortune ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Hi, You should not need a new ECU, the connections yes , Maybe, good auto tech' more than likely not. Get your old ECU checked by an Independant tester , you may find this the best way to solve this. The connections are far from waterproof but are not that expensive to replace. Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted April 2, 2011 Author Share Posted April 2, 2011 Gentlemen, Apologies for not keeping the thread going, but I was waiting to see what was going to transpire... Having been quoted £479 (+ VAT) for a reconditioned ECU and new wiring loom at £250 (+ VAT), I was told by the agent that they had ordered up the wrong loom... The replacement was actually going to cost > £400 (+ VAT)! I decided it was time to contact Fiat Customer Care (FCC). They gave me a case number and I sat down to wait... Meanwhile, the agent finished the job and quoted me £1864 for the complete job - ouch! I called FCC with this news. The following day, FCC called back saying they would cover the cost of the replacement parts and would pay 6 of the 8 hours of labour charged to me: Success - accompli Fiat! Delighted with the result, I went along to the agent to collect the motorhome and was presented with a bill for £332.06. Now, as the labour the garage charged was £560 (8 hours at £70 + VAT) I queried this bill. I had expected to pay for only the remaining 2 hours + VAT or £168... I was told by the agent that Fiat only paid him at a"warranty" rate (approx £47 / hour + VAT) and we would have to pick up the bill for the rest! I bit my tongue and paid up. Needless to say, this took a little bit of the shine off getting a great result. The final chapter (I hope) was a parcel which came through the post today with a complimentary Fiat mug in it! Genuinely though; many thanks Fiat for helping us out. It is much appreciated. Many thanks too for your helpful comments Best regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 On which basis I think I would do two things. First find another Fiat garage to deal with, and second go back to FCC in writing with a copy of the garages invoice showing the surcharge on the Fiat rate. My understanding hitherto has been that garages agree to accept Fiat's warranty rate as a condition of becoming a Fiat approved workshop. That status guarantees them a certain flow of work, some via routine servicing, some via repairs, and some via warranty. If they don't like Fiat's terms, they are free to chance their arm as independents, otherwise, they should stick to Fiat's deal. Reasonably, they would have been free to charge you at their normal commercial rate for the two hours not covered by the warranty, but I don't think they should have been entitled to surcharge you the difference in rates on the balance, and I would be very interested in Fiat's take on this conduct, especially as Fiat appear to have behaved quite handsomely on this occasion. It would certainly have taken the gilt off my gingerbread, and looks like a firm very hungry for their pound of flesh - at whoever's expense. The settlement in the case of the pound of flesh, if I remember, was that the pound of flesh could be taken, provided this could be achieved without also taking blood, which had not been part of the deal. Perhaps your favourite Fiat garage needs a little history lesson! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Oops, once was enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Hi I could think of one more Brian, but I am afraid not repeatable on this forum.Glad you got fixed up Steward. Hmmmm may be replacing more parts than is necessary, ECU's are very robust. Well you are back on the road, now enjoy. Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 2, 2011 Share Posted April 2, 2011 Hi Stewart, Whilst I am delighted you are pleased with the outcome you really should take Brians advice as the dealer has ripped you off big time. Fiat CC will not be pleased to hear one of their dealers is charging a surcharge on warranty work. In fact I think you should only have been charged 2 hours at £47 + vat which is the warranty agreed rate. If it had been a serviceable item, for example gear box, but at same time it was prudent to fit a new clutch then you expect to pay part cost as it is something you may well have to replace during the life of the vehicle, so you have ended up with a vehicle in better condition than before. However the wiring loom should last the life of the vehicle. It is not something which wears out like a bulb, brakes, clutch, shock absorbers, or gearbox bearings for example. However, putting this aside, Fiat instructed the garage to repair under warranty and would pay x hours, you paying the rest, so it is totally unreasonable to be paying a surcharge for the hours under warranty agreement. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfer Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Gentlemen, Postcript to the Fiat saga... On getting my motorhome back, it was due to have its annual habitation service, so I took it to another dealer as previously arranged. On the journey over, I detected a slight 'thrumming' from what appeared to be the fan, but didn't have time to check it out. A week later, when I got the 'van' home, I opened up the bonnet only to discover a wrench spanner stuck in the front engine fan (see photo)! Taking it out (and hoping no damage had occurred to the fan) I discovered no difference to the thrumming... I was able to locate the noise to a point above the air intake - the internal blower. The cover had not been put back properly when re-assembling after the ECU debacle! First thing on Monday morning, I took the van back into the Fiat Agent and presented the spanner to him. Give the man his due, he did sort the noise free of charge... He also replaced (twice) a battery in the key which was only working close up to the van, but the range has not improved..... I must keep smiling I must keep smiling I must... (lol) We're of to Shieldaig for Easter :-D :-D Thanks again, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Golfer - 2011-04-19 9:15 PM First thing on Monday morning, I took the van back into the Fiat Agent and presented the spanner to him. Give the man his due, he did sort the noise free of charge... Stewart Stewart Did he catch it or duck, when you threw the Spanner at him (?) :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 With respect Stewart you have been a lot more forgiving than I would have been! Q. -When is a three year warranty not a warranty? A.- When it's a FIAT warranty. You should not have been out of pocket at all on this fiasco and the inept dealer should have sorted the bill with Fiat without ever involving you in that side of it - after all peace of mind is what warranties are supposed to be for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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