elec. connection protectors

[derek pringle]

Hi Derek,

The larger id=171 you show on your link seems the job and shows it containing the correct fittings.

I carry 1x15 mtr lead and 1 x 25 mtr lead and honestly have had to join them on occasions, not too many I must add. The amount of protection offered seems ok as well as it is mainly to keep rain out, but would still be lying on the ground [wet].

Has anybody ever ordered from this company or know of their service etc.

Thanks to all who are helping

cheers

derek

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2011-07-18 8:27 AM....................................I carry two hook-up cables - a 10m and a 25m. On the rare occasions I use an EHU I prefer to use the 10m cable as it's stored handily in my Hobby's gas-locker and is more manageable than the 25m. If the 10m cable proves too short, then I use the 25m cable instead. I've never needed to connect the cables together, but it's obvious that I could reach 35m if I did. It's very unlikely that I'll ever need to connect my 10m and 25m cables together, so the connectors fitted at both ends are the original common-or-garden P17 splash-resistant IP44 type.

 

The Hobby's 230v mains inlet socket is designed to accept the type of standardised IP44 plug fitted to both my EHU cables, but I'm far from sure that it would accept a bulkier IP67 plug. What I'm suggesting is that, while there would be no difficulty linking EHU cables using IP67 connectors, the extra bulk of IP67 connectors MIGHT cause practical problems if the cables were to be used independently.

 

These are examples of 'P17' connectors to IP67 and you'll see what I mean:

 

http://www.electro-mpo.ru/en/card9794.html

 

http://www.electro-mpo.ru/en/card11907.html.................

 

On the other hand, because we almost invariably use sites, I carry 2 x 25 metre cables, and I have found the need, on occasion, to use virtually all of the combined 50M. Not common, and usually only because the nearest site pillar is dead, or because it is fully utilised, rather than because the pillars are 100M apart! Both cables are 2.5mm. One cable is kept on a drum, the other merely coiled.

 

The drum stored cable has the CEE IP67 "plug" (male) connector at its "site" end. (See here: http://tinyurl.com/6yd58hn) This is as the blue (correct) one as in Derek's link (the other connector is the right shape but, being red is, I think, actually a 400V 3P + E connector. But hey, it's a Russian site! :-)). This carries only the locking seal, and connects without any difficulty to CEE IP44 sockets at the site end. Used in this way, the connection maintains its IP44 (splashproof) standard. This is satisfactory, because the pillar connection is invariably comfortably above ground level.

 

So far, I have encountered just one IP67 site pillar, allowing use of the locking seal to give a full IP67 connection.

 

Where the pillar is a "Euro 2 pin" variant, the IP67 connector readily mates with the CEE IP44 connector on the 2 pin adaptor lead (see here: http://tinyurl.com/5tp5mtm) to give an IP44 connection. This is usually satisfactory because most pillar connections are sufficiently high up to keep the dangling connector clear of the ground. Where the pillar connection is so low (unusual) that the adaptor connection would be on, or near, the ground, I simply loop the cable over the top of the pillar, or similar, to raise it. To date, this has always proved possible by some means. So, no problem at the pillar whatever the connection type. IP44 is maintained where the CEE connectors are available, and local electrical safety regulations are (presumably! :-)) satisfied where 2 pin plugs are still in use.

 

The connector at the van end remains IP44, which is all that is required, and is the normal CEE, sprung lid, socket end. (See here: http://tinyurl.com/68sgzsy)

 

The other, coiled, cable has a CEE IP67 socket (female) connector (see here: http://tinyurl.com/6zcmd2w) at one end and a CEE IP44 plug (male) connector (see here: http://tinyurl.com/68yc5fq) at the other end. If the pillar is too distant to be reached with the drum stored cable, it is connected to the van as usual, the two cables are joined using the IP67 socket to IP67 plug connectors at the mid point, and the second (coiled) cable is connected at the pillar (via its IP44 end, or via the 2 pin adaptor). Thus, IP44 is always maintained at pillar and van (with reservations regarding the 2 pin adaptor) and, where needed, the mid point connection between the two cables always ensures a flood/dog piddle/hose proof IP67 connection.

 

None of this is any more complicated to use in practise then connecting two lengths of cable via the standard IP44 connectors, despite my attempts to make it sound so! :-) The only requirement is that to maintain flexibility both cables should ideally be of the same length, and that for convenience, the one that will connect to the van is readily identifiable.

 

That apart, once the two higher rated connectors are bought and connected up (no more difficult than wiring the standard IP44 connectors - the differences are in the way the connector bodies are sealed), you have, in essence, a simple, foolproof (because you can't do it wrong!), waterproof, and safe means of connecting two trailing cables, as and when required.

[aultymer]

My old Hymer is still running about with an IP 67 end on the cable (because when I needed a new one that was all there was!) this plugged into the van socket no problem. The screw on cover hinged back out of the way.

It had the advantage of the screw on cap to keep the end dry if it was accidentaly left out.

[JENIAN]

Brian Kirby - 2011-07-17 7:10 PM

 

The German job claims only IP44 (but I'm personally dubious this can always be achieved), which is only the same rating as the standard CEE plug/socket you wish to improve on. IP44 is splash proof. Sitting in a puddle, neither, individually or in combination, would remain dry internally. In heavy rain, lying on the ground, the exposure conditions exceed IP44. It is no longer being splashed, it is virtually immersed.

 

The JoJo job makes no claim at all, so is presumably untested, with unknown performance. A plastic bag tied round a CEE IP44 plug/socket would probably be as (in)effective, and a lot cheaper. You pays your money! :-D

 

If you want reasonable all weather safety for an in-line connection using CEE connectors the answer has already been provided. Buy the IP67 version which, as flicka has shown, can safely be immersed in up to 1 meter of water and remain dry internally. (Personally, I'd hope to have left the site before the water got that deep, but if I couldn't, I don't think a dry electrical connection would be my greatest worry! :-))

 

I think you're kidding yourselves. :-) If it is dry when you arrive, and you have to join cables to reach the pillar, and you then get a thunderstorm overnight, how can you possibly know where the puddles will form? Granted, it is always preferable to raise the connector above ground level, whatever type it is. However, it is not always possible to do so, so safety with IP44 connectors is not a foregone conclusion.

 

If you want to improve on IP44, you do need to go up to IP67, because that the next level up that is available. If you are happy to live with IP44, then stay with that. What's the problem with that? :-S

Bought in good faith Brian

[flicka]

Derek’s link to the “PROTEGE PRISE SPECIAL P17” on

http://www.accessoire-attelage-remorque.fr/category.php?id_category=11

The P17 is IP67, however it is dependent on the Cable diameter being correct to ensure this is achieved.

Having said that, It is probably the best there is & will be produced by a few manufacturers. Unfortunately many cheap versions from China are on sale. So it you want to know where your CEE product was produced have a look on this site.

http://www.fam-oud.nl/~plugsocket/Certification.html

The “PROTEGE PRISE PLASTIQUE” shown on the website does not carry ANY IP rating & may not even be manufactured to the CE standard, but at best can only be classified as IP44.

If you’re sufficiently concerned to need a Cover, the PROTEGE PRISE SPECIAL P17” would be the optimum of those that appear to be available.

Brian is also correct with his comments on the other link.

 

http://www.electro-mpo.ru/en/card11907.html

Under the CE Plugs & Sockets code: –

Yellow = 110v,

Blue = 220/240v

Red = 415v (3phase & Earth)

They are NOT interchangeable, they will only fit to colour match.

 

For further safety, try to ensure it is lifted off the ground.

 

nb. I have checked many UK sources of the CEE products, but without success for the Connection Covers in any IP Rating. (typically RS Components, Farnel & the larger Electrical Wholesalers, etc.,)

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2011-07-18 12:52 PM

 

(the other connector is the right shape but, being red is, I think, actually a 400V 3P + E connector. But hey, it's a Russian site! :-))

 

Could be, but that's not what the blurb says ("2P + E")

 

I believe my caveat still stands. Will the appropriate IP67 connector on your cable plug into your Hobby's mains input socket?

[flicka]

Derek Uzzell - 2011-07-19 9:03 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2011-07-18 12:52 PM

 

(the other connector is the right shape but, being red is, I think, actually a 400V 3P + E connector. But hey, it's a Russian site! :-))

 

Could be, but that's not what the blurb says ("2P + E")

 

I believe my caveat still stands. Will the appropriate IP67 connector on your cable plug into your Hobby's mains input socket?

 

I think they have just posted a pic of the wrong colour plug to match their description.

Or may be being patriotic :D

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2011-07-19 9:03 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2011-07-18 12:52 PM

 

(the other connector is the right shape but, being red is, I think, actually a 400V 3P + E connector. But hey, it's a Russian site! :-))

 

Could be, but that's not what the blurb says ("2P + E")

 

I believe my caveat still stands. Will the appropriate IP67 connector on your cable plug into your Hobby's mains input socket?

 

I agree the blurb says otherwise, but what they show is either a non-compliant 2P + E 230V red connector, or a compliant 3P + N 400V red connector. My point in highlighting their error was to draw attention to the fact that the colour coding has a specific purpose (yellow 110V, blue 230V, red 400V etc) and/or to the fact that some imported goods are not what they seem, yet appear to get into the country and onto our market despite breaching our regulations. Hook-up cables, and cable drums, being a case in point.

 

The IP 67 connector doesn't need to connect to the van Derek, because, as I said above: "The connector at the van end remains IP44, which is all that is required, and is the normal CEE, sprung lid, socket end." I have only two IP67 connectors, at one end only of each of the cables, for joining them, the connectors at their other ends being the "standard" IP44 jobs.

[alf]

Having just looked through my Legrand catalogue they do not make a 3 pin red (2p+E)plug or socket

whilst on the subject the BS EN 60309-2 plugs and sockets were designed for industrial use the fact that the IPx4 range was selected for Caravan Hook up leads was an after thought the use of plug and sockets is to be frowned when live if the joint is split you have an unshuttered socket with live connections awaiting little fingers so the OP point in using such as the GO OUTDOORS Safe box is a good idea.as this comes with a padlock and keys. I would also point out the use of Standard BS EN 60309-2 plugs and sockets in Domestic premises would contradict electrical regulations that state only shuttered sockets are allowed to get around this my socket is of a type that will not switch on unless a plug is inserted in the socket and will not allow me to remove the plug when the socket is live

 

Alf

[derek pringle]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the contributions t o the thread. I have bought one from Go Outdoors [lockable] as Alf describes. Seems really well encased and waterproof so in my opinion much better than nothing.

Thanks again all--really helpfull

derek

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2011-07-19 11:54 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2011-07-19 9:03 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2011-07-18 12:52 PM

 

(the other connector is the right shape but, being red is, I think, actually a 400V 3P + E connector. But hey, it's a Russian site! :-))

 

Could be, but that's not what the blurb says ("2P + E")

 

I believe my caveat still stands. Will the appropriate IP67 connector on your cable plug into your Hobby's mains input socket?

 

I agree the blurb says otherwise, but what they show is either a non-compliant 2P + E 230V red connector, or a compliant 3P + N 400V red connector. My point in highlighting their error was to draw attention to the fact that the colour coding has a specific purpose (yellow 110V, blue 230V, red 400V etc) and/or to the fact that some imported goods are not what they seem, yet appear to get into the country and onto our market despite breaching our regulations. Hook-up cables, and cable drums, being a case in point.

 

The IP 67 connector doesn't need to connect to the van Derek, because, as I said above: "The connector at the van end remains IP44, which is all that is required, and is the normal CEE, sprung lid, socket end." I have only two IP67 connectors, at one end only of each of the cables, for joining them, the connectors at their other ends being the "standard" IP44 jobs.

 

It's evident that the Russian website is unreliable when it comes to matching photo with specification. My reason for referring to that website was just that it shows that the design of IP67 connectors makes them (unsurprisingly) dimensionally bulkier than IP44 equivalents.

 

I fully understood that, in your particular case, your "IP 67 connector doesn't need to connect to the van". But I didn't ask whether it NEEDS to connect to your van, I asked "Will the appropriate IP67 connector on your cable plug into your Hobby's mains input socket?"

 

You have correctly identified a water-related risk if you need to connect your two 25m hook-up cables together. As hook-up cables come with 'IP44' connectors as standard, your solution (I assume) was to replace an IP44 socket on one of your original cables, and an IP44 plug on the other cable, with IP67 equivalents. You've now got two 25M cables that can be converted into a 50M cable with a IP67 joint between them.

 

But I'm pretty sure that many people (myself included) are not carrying equal length cables. I carry a 10M cable and a 25M cable, both with IP44 connectors at both ends. If I park close enough to a 230V service-pillar I use the 10M cable: if I'm further away from a service-pillar I use the 25M cable. To allow me to continue to have maximum flexibility and achieve your 'waterproof-ness', it's evident that I'd need to have IP67 connectors on both ends of both cables.

 

Although I've never needed to connect my cables together so far, it's easy to imagine a scenario where I've connected the 25M cable to the 'van, led the cable towards the service-pedestal and found that it's too short. I'd then need to connect the 10m cable to the 25M cable and, to achieve a waterproof joint, the 25M wiill need an IP67 connector and so will the 10M cable.

 

But I normally plug the 10m cable directly into my motorhome and I'm wary that an IP67 connector will fit into a mains input socket that will undoubtedly have been designed to accept an IP44 connector. As you are very probably the only forum member (perhaps the only UK motorcaravanner even?) that uses IP67 connectors, you are in the unique position of being able to confirm whether or not an IP67 equivalent of the appropriate standard IP44 connector will fit in your Hobby's mains input socket. If it will fit in your Hobby's mains input socket, then it's likely to fit in all motorhome mains input sockets and, if it won't, then we'll know that it won't.

 

(I've no interest in exploring alternative strategies on how I might use my 10M and 25M cables. I just want to know whether a your IP67 connector will connect correctly to your Hobby Van. Simples?!)

 

It may also be worth asking whether an IP67 connector will connect satisfactorily to ALL 230V service pedestals with IP44 fittings. I'm thinking specifically of the Caravan Club type that require the connector to be rotated at the pedestal.

[pepe63xnotuse]

derek pringle - 2011-07-21 8:51 AM

 

Hi All,

...I have bought one from Go Outdoors [lockable] as Alf describes. Seems really well encased and waterproof so in my opinion much better than nothing.

Thanks again all--really helpfull

derek

 

Hi..Derek

..Any chance of posting a link to or product number of,the item please? :-)

Apologies if it's already on here somewhere... :$

(..this thread has lost me somewhat,with everyone seemingly trying to out do each other,by seeing who knows the most (..or can post the most links)about "weather proof" electrical sockets & plugs (lol) (lol) )

[Brian Kirby]

Apologies for misunderstanding the point of your question Derek.

 

Derek Uzzell - 2011-07-21 9:10 AM...........You have correctly identified a water-related risk if you need to connect your two 25m hook-up cables together. As hook-up cables come with 'IP44' connectors as standard, your solution (I assume) was to replace an IP44 socket on one of your original cables, and an IP44 plug on the other cable, with IP67 equivalents. You've now got two 25M cables that can be converted into a 50M cable with a IP67 joint between them.

 

The risk, I think, is actually quite low, even with the IP44 jobs, but I had other reasons for wanting to this. Your assumption as to the make-up of the cables is correct.

 

As you are very probably the only forum member (perhaps the only UK motorcaravanner even?) that uses IP67 connectors, you are in the unique position of being able to confirm whether or not an IP67 equivalent of the appropriate standard IP44 connector will fit in your Hobby's mains input socket. If it will fit in your Hobby's mains input socket, then it's likely to fit in all motorhome mains input sockets and, if it won't, then we'll know that it won't.

 

Fame at last! :-D I'd not contemplated doing this, as I don't need to, so had never tried - but have just been out and experimented. It will connect, but I wouldn't recommend it! The hinged cover is a tight fit, although it will go in. Being a tight fit, it snaps sharply over the retaining lug at the back of the van socket, and needs some persuading to let go! The trigger release will just do it, but I think is at the limits of its strength so, out of sympathy, I used a screwdriver to prise the lid clear. Emergency only, I'd say, not day to day. Whether this would be true for all designs I wouldn't care to speculate.

 

It may also be worth asking whether an IP67 connector will connect satisfactorily to ALL 230V service pedestals with IP44 fittings. I'm thinking specifically of the Caravan Club type that require the connector to be rotated at the pedestal.

 

Can't yet answer for all, but no problems so far in France, and it has connected without difficulty to a couple of CC site pillars (different sites) of the type you describe.

[Derek Uzzell]

pepe63 - 2011-07-21 9:32 AM

 

derek pringle - 2011-07-21 8:51 AM

 

Hi All,

...I have bought one from Go Outdoors [lockable] as Alf describes. Seems really well encased and waterproof so in my opinion much better than nothing.

Thanks again all--really helpfull

derek

 

Hi..Derek

..Any chance of posting a link to or product number of,the item please? :-)

Apologies if it's already on here somewhere... :$

(..this thread has lost me somewhat,with everyone seemingly trying to out do each other,by seeing who knows the most (..or can post the most links)about "weather proof" electrical sockets & plugs (lol) (lol) )

 

This is what you want:

 

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/electrosafe-p150010

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2011-07-21 5:03 PM

 

 

Derek Uzzell - 2011-07-21 9:10 AM.

 

As you are very probably the only forum member (perhaps the only UK motorcaravanner even?) that uses IP67 connectors, you are in the unique position of being able to confirm whether or not an IP67 equivalent of the appropriate standard IP44 connector will fit in your Hobby's mains input socket. If it will fit in your Hobby's mains input socket, then it's likely to fit in all motorhome mains input sockets and, if it won't, then we'll know that it won't.

 

Fame at last! :-D I'd not contemplated doing this, as I don't need to, so had never tried - but have just been out and experimented. It will connect, but I wouldn't recommend it! The hinged cover is a tight fit, although it will go in. Being a tight fit, it snaps sharply over the retaining lug at the back of the van socket, and needs some persuading to let go! The trigger release will just do it, but I think is at the limits of its strength so, out of sympathy, I used a screwdriver to prise the lid clear. Emergency only, I'd say, not day to day. Whether this would be true for all designs I wouldn't care to speculate.

 

Thanks for checking. Having looked at my own Hobby's mains input point I wasn't confident that the protective 'flap' of an IP67 connector would go in or (more importantly perhaps), if it did go in, that it would come out!

[derek pringle]

Hi Pepe,

It is as Derek says, but beware as the item comes complete with 2 plastic black inserts and a small padlock, at the store we visited we needed to look through the stock to ensure we got a complete item.

Alf sent me the item no. and photos, thanks again Alf, not sure how to e mail you via this system or I would forward on to you.

good luck

derek

[pepe63xnotuse]

Thanks for that Derek U',Derek P' (..and Alf ! ) ;-)