Cattwg Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 We were given a parking ticket at ASDA's last week for exceeding the maximum allowed time. There are signs warning of this restriction and I dare say that by using the car park you are deemed to have accepted their terms and conditions of use. As is common these days the car park is actually operated by a different company - Town and City Parking. After complaining bitterly to ASDA's the ticket was cancelled. After the incident I wondered, are parking tickets issued at private car parks enforceable at law? Or would they have to pursue the action through the civil courts? Does anyone have a definitive answer? Cattwg :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 These are not enforceable parking tickets, legally, they are invoices for breach of contract, i.e. you have been in breach of the contract between the landowners and yourself regarding the length of time you are allowed to park. However, the contract is between the DRIVER of the car and not the legal or registered owner. The parking company will obtain details from the DVLA in respect of the registered keeper, but you have no obligation in law to inform the parking company who was driving. The parking co (PC) will comtinue to write to you threatening all sorts, you should only reply to them once, stating that you were not sure who was driving the vehicle at the time and ask them for photographic proof of who was driving. If they cannot, then ignore all future correspondence despite the threats, they will have to take you to a small claims court to have payment enforced, but they rely on people rolling over and paying. If the parking ticket gives a PO Box address to send payment to, then it is illegal. Visit www.pepeepo.co.uk for tons of advice on this type of ticket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I think you'll find that is http://www.pepipoo.com/ , Donna. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian0354 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 For the definitive answer trawl through this lot: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163 The answer you will find, eventually, is that (1) private "tickets" have no right in law, (2) You will not get taken to court, because this would cost the parking company money and then would get thrown out by the court as unfair and (3) the only people to benefit from replying is these companies in that they then know for sure who the owner/driver was at the time, so they can aim the scare more accurately. Only parking tickets issued by the local council, or by a Traffic Warden, are enforable ina court of law Under recent law a company can only charge, NOT fine, you the amount lost by not having that space to charge another person parking there. So, if parking is free they can't legally charge you anything. Always file these "tickets" in the bin, they are invoices sent out in their thousands hoping that a percentage of people will be scared into paying and these companies are working the numbers. As MoneySavingExpert say "This is the new Wild West" IHTH. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Robinhood - 2011-07-16 3:39 PM I think you'll find that is http://www.pepipoo.com/ , Donna. ;-) Ha Ha, that's the bugga. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 donna miller - 2011-07-16 4:19 PM Robinhood - 2011-07-16 3:39 PM I think you'll find that is http://www.pepipoo.com/ , Donna. ;-) Ha Ha, that's the bugga. :D It could have been worse, instead of it being a dead link, with a name like www.pepeepo.co.uk, you could have been directing people to something entirely inappropriate 8-) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 What is the ruling on a motorway service station? you have 2 hours free parking then you must pay round about £16 allowing you 24 hours, can they enforce it if you overstay your free 2 hours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Ian03/54 - 2011-07-16 3:49 PM Only parking tickets issued by the local council, or by a Traffic Warden, are enforable ina court of law Regards, To save trawling through it all, do you happen to know if that includes other public bodies like the National Trust, for example? Or where the council uses 'civil enforcement officers?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian0354 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 knight of the road - 2011-07-16 8:46 PM What is the ruling on a motorway service station? you have 2 hours free parking then you must pay round about £16 allowing you 24 hours, can they enforce it if you overstay your free 2 hours? Malcolm, Again as above, I would suggest searching the MoneySaving web site: http://tiny.cc/j0ijs also there was a thread covering this topic on http://www.wildcamping.co.uk some months ago so a search on there could give you an answer. Can't be sure but I think I've read that the rules are the same on motorway services but like I say I'm not sure. Or is there still a risk of clamping if you are still on their premises? Sorry I can't give you the definitive answer. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Robinhood - 2011-07-16 4:37 PM donna miller - 2011-07-16 4:19 PM Robinhood - 2011-07-16 3:39 PM I think you'll find that is http://www.pepipoo.com/ , Donna. ;-) Ha Ha, that's the bugga. :D It could have been worse, instead of it being a dead link, with a name like www.pepeepo.co.uk, you could have been directing people to something entirely inappropriate 8-) . That happened a while back, I told a friend to look on bmi baby to book some cheap flights, unfortunately he typed in be my baby, and ended up on a porn site, his office manager wasn't too pleased but saw the funny side afterwards. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 knight of the road - 2011-07-16 8:46 PM What is the ruling on a motorway service station? you have 2 hours free parking then you must pay round about £16 allowing you 24 hours, can theone over his 2y enforce it if you overstay your free 2 hours? Doubtless they're all different but... They most certainly can enforce it Malcolm, can't remember whether it was in the press or a forum but one guy had gone over his 2 hours. But the reason he had was that he was kipping in his car, he felt tired so sensibly pulled over. However he woke up and went to get a coffee and whilst he was in the service station, went over his 2 hours and bang, on went the ticket. Result? Pay up & smile. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian0354 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Peter James - 2011-07-16 8:54 PM Ian03/54 - 2011-07-16 3:49 PM Only parking tickets issued by the local council, or by a Traffic Warden, are enforable ina court of law Regards, To save trawling through it all, do you happen to know if that includes other public bodies like the National Trust, for example? Or where the council uses 'civil enforcement officers?' Peter, It is my understanding it would all depend on whether a private parking company was involved. I believe that it is "tickets" from these companies that are unenforcable in law, mainly being judged as unfair. I appreciate there is a lot to trawl through on the MoneySaving web site but they know far more than I could ever learn and, for the definitive answer, I always head there. IHTH. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I've just read this very recently (but can't remember where) that they are trying or going to make the registered keeper responsible for a parking ticket if they can't or won't come up with the drivers name. At the moment it is a civil offence on private land and not a criminal one. Only Traffic wardens, Police, and whoever the council's have a contract with can issue a parking fine. Like the above post the rest are invoices, they sometimes refer to you as customers Just remembered, it was in the paper's because of people parking in the disable and child parking spaces, it was very recent within the last fortnight. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Thanks for the reply Ian. I understand that when its a private company like a supermarket, they have no more right to give you a 'fine; than you have to give them a 'fine' because you are both equal in law. You could do it, but you would have to go to court to enforce it, with litle prospect of success, particularly if the 'fine' was deemed to be unreasonable. In any case they can only fine the driver, and are unlikely to be able to prove who the driver is unless you tell them, which you are not obliged to do when its a private company. Its different when its a government body like a council, because they make the law to suit themselves they give themselves much greater powers so are much harder to fight in court. What I am not clear on is where do the landowners like the National Trust, Harbour Authority, English Heritage, RSPB etc come into it. Is there any way of finding out which category they come in to? PS: I'm not advocating deliberately flouting their rules. A shop who builds a car park has a right to keep it for its customers, not people parking and going off somewhere else, so there's no room for customers to park! Just wondered what your rights are if you are 'fined' an unreasonable amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian0354 Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Peter James - 2011-07-16 11:16 PM Thanks for the reply Ian. I understand that when its a private company like a supermarket, they have no more right to give you a 'fine; than you have to give them a 'fine' because you are both equal in law. You could do it, but you would have to go to court to enforce it, with litle prospect of success, particularly if the 'fine' was deemed to be unreasonable. In any case they can only fine the driver, and are unlikely to be able to prove who the driver is unless you tell them, which you are not obliged to do when its a private company. Its different when its a government body like a council, because they make the law to suit themselves they give themselves much greater powers so are much harder to fight in court. What I am not clear on is where do the landowners like the National Trust, Harbour Authority, English Heritage, RSPB etc come into it. Is there any way of finding out which category they come in to? PS: I'm not advocating deliberately flouting their rules. A shop who builds a car park has a right to keep it for its customers, not people parking and going off somewhere else, so there's no room for customers to park! Just wondered what your rights are if you are 'fined' an unreasonable amount. Peter, I really don't know how you would find out about NT, etc. Some of the threads on wildcamping.co.uk cover conversations about the NT in particular and, from what I have read on there, staying over night on their property is a strict no no and so I imagine they have some clout. I wildcamped on a RSPB site when enroute to the Great Escape last month without problem but then the parking area was just open with no gates and no patrols. So, to sum up, I don't know. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 No, I don't know either. The info I have seen on pepipoo, though very good, seems to relate to cars on urban car parks etc we probably wouldn't be allowed on anyway because we can't fit inside a marked bay. Like the National Trust, the RSPB seems to have vast areas of very under used land that would be ideal for an overnight motorhome stopover, and cause problems to no one. I have seen vast areas they have closed off to humans altogether, declaring it conservation area for wild birds, yet you see very few wild birds in there. There appear more birds living in the areas where we are allowed to go, gardens, parks, and rubbish tips etc, where they find more food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 It was shortly after I bought my first campervan that I realised how unfriendly this country is towards caravans, campervans and motorists in general. It didnt take long before I started to notice all the signs saying, no stopping, no turning, no overnight camping etc etc. Councils throw thousands of pounds towards itinerant travellers but make no provision for honest travellers (campers) who pay their way who need to stop for a rest break. I think that the rules on where you can or cannot park up for the night need clarifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 LordThornber - 2011-07-16 10:16 PM knight of the road - 2011-07-16 8:46 PM What is the ruling on a motorway service station? you have 2 hours free parking then you must pay round about £16 allowing you 24 hours, can theone over his 2y enforce it if you overstay your free 2 hours? Doubtless they're all different but... They most certainly can enforce it Malcolm, can't remember whether it was in the press or a forum but one guy had gone over his 2 hours. But the reason he had was that he was kipping in his car, he felt tired so sensibly pulled over. However he woke up and went to get a coffee and whilst he was in the service station, went over his 2 hours and bang, on went the ticket. Result? Pay up & smile. Martyn That was the case that prompted my post, I read it in the Manchester Evening News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyne Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 The issue with these 'charges' and whether they should be ignored is a bit of a gamble on whether the company running the parking scheme is willing to take you to court. Now many may not be willing to go that far, but how do you know? If they do its likely to cost the overstayer even more money than the initial sum. If the correct warning notices are in place and you overstay your welcome its very difficult to prove that you should not pay the extra charges. There was a case on another group where someone was charged extra on a motorway service area because they overstayed the 2 hours and they were actually broken down and waiting for a breakdown service to take them away. It might have helped if they had discussed the problem with the local management whilst they were waiting which they did not. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Klyne - 2011-07-17 11:16 AM The issue with these 'charges' and whether they should be ignored is a bit of a gamble on whether the company running the parking scheme is willing to take you to court. Now many may not be willing to go that far, but how do you know? If they do its likely to cost the overstayer even more money than the initial sum. David I don't think so because, as I understand it, the landowner could only claim what they can prove they have lost as a result as your occupying that parking space. I still don't advocate deliberately parking where we shouldn't because, as I see it, the nasty people will clamp you, it is the nicer people who don't use wheelclamps, and I don't feel its right to take advantage of them because of that. *even the aa, with all their legal expertise, has had a van clamped and had to pay over £1,000 to clampers http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/news/wheel-clamping-government-must-not-backtrack-on-promise.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian0354 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Peter James - 2011-07-16 8:54 PM Ian03/54 - 2011-07-16 3:49 PM Only parking tickets issued by the local council, or by a Traffic Warden, are enforable ina court of law Regards, To save trawling through it all, do you happen to know if that includes other public bodies like the National Trust, for example? Or where the council uses 'civil enforcement officers?' Peter, I've just been reading a thread on wildcamping that has brought the topic of motorway services and NT up again. There are 6 pages but worth a look. http://tinyurl.com/68vl49q Maybe the answer you are looking for? Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Ian03/54 - 2011-07-17 1:08 PM Peter James - 2011-07-16 8:54 PM Ian03/54 - 2011-07-16 3:49 PM Only parking tickets issued by the local council, or by a Traffic Warden, are enforable ina court of law Regards, To save trawling through it all, do you happen to know if that includes other public bodies like the National Trust, for example? Or where the council uses 'civil enforcement officers?' Peter, I've just been reading a thread on wildcamping that has brought the topic of motorway services and NT up again. There are 6 pages but worth a look. http://tinyurl.com/68vl49q Maybe the answer you are looking for? Regards, Yes, Thanks for the Link Regards, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postnote Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 donna miller - 2011-07-16 10:09 PM That happened a while back, I told a friend to look on bmi baby to book some cheap flights, unfortunately he typed in be my baby, and ended up on a porn site, his office manager wasn't too pleased but saw the funny side afterwards. 8-) Oh yes, not that old Chestnut, you will be telling us next there really is a Father X'mas :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 knight of the road - 2011-07-17 9:22 AM It was shortly after I bought my first campervan that I realised how unfriendly this country is towards caravans, campervans and motorists in general. It didnt take long before I started to notice all the signs saying, no stopping, no turning, no overnight camping etc etc. Councils throw thousands of pounds towards itinerant travellers but make no provision for honest travellers (campers) who pay their way who need to stop for a rest break. I think that the rules on where you can or cannot park up for the night need clarifying. The very reason, and the answer to some of the comments on other threads, why so many go abroad to France. It doesn't matter how expensive it is or isn't, it is just simply so much more motorhome freindly! Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyne Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Peter James - 2011-07-17 11:40 AM Klyne - 2011-07-17 11:16 AM The issue with these 'charges' and whether they should be ignored is a bit of a gamble on whether the company running the parking scheme is willing to take you to court. Now many may not be willing to go that far, but how do you know? If they do its likely to cost the overstayer even more money than the initial sum. David I don't think so because, as I understand it, the landowner could only claim what they can prove they have lost as a result as your occupying that parking space. l But its neither here nor there because if you have to appear in court you have to submit papers before the case, either yourself or a solicitor and as its unlikely you can prove your vehicle was not there its unlikely that you could win the case. Even if the supermarket said they lost £20 because someone overstayed there welcome you could get hit with the other sides court costs, not just the amount they say they have lost. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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