landyman101 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 A few years ago I used to tow a small caravan with a renault campervan. We moved onto a car and caravan but now want to semi retire and tour europe. We fancy a large 6 berth van because of the space and the time we will be away, but realize that will be restricted where we can go when we get there. We prefer out of the way sites so was wondering about coming from a differant angle. I was thinking about a large hi-top ie Trigano tribute. 2 berth and pulling a folding camper for a semi permanent base. That way we have a means of getting around as both of us have bad knees cycling can only be small distances. Are todays vans capable of this and are there any rules/law about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 If you have bad knees (as we have) why don't you try a couple of electric bikes. No pressure on the knees but you still get the exercise. We find them very beneficial when we are away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 The simple answer is yes you can. The rules that apply are the same as for cars, subject to your driving licence categories. That is to say the combined weight of trailer and van must not exceed the Gross Train Weight (GTW) for the tow vehicle, if the trailer has a MAM exceeding 750kg it must have brakes, and if the trailer is fitted with brakes, irrespective of its weight, the brakes must work, and the downforce on the hitch must not exceed the plated limit for the hitch. I think you will find, if fitting a towbar to a converted panel van, that the van will have been Type Approved, so the towbar fitted must also be Type Approved. What I suspect you may find, is that since most motorhomes are heavy relative to the base vehicle on which they are based (be that panel van conversion, coachbuilt or A Class), and tend to run close to their MAM when laden, keeping within the GTW with a large caravan will prove quite a challenge. Also, remember that camping in remote locations means using the tow vehicle to access supermarkets etc, and to get to places of interest. A large camper is not always the easiest way to do this. A smaller tow vehicle, prioritising catering rather than sleeping, of "dayvan" type, say VW T5 or Merc Vito based, that gives you a fridge, water, a toilet, and a cooker, so that you can take full day trips in reasonable comfort, coupled with something like one of the smaller Eriba pop-top caravans, which would provide another fridge, toilet/washroom, and a good bed, wardrobe etc, plus a simple canopy/shelter, would keep the whole rig smaller for ease of access to the out of the way sites, while making accessing, and parking in, other places once the van is sited, somewhat easier. It would also rid you of the problems trailer tents tend to cause when you have to fold them down wet. Any good? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scramblers Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 For many years I towed a caravan and the beauty, for me, of moving to a motorhome meant no more towing. Why have all the inconvienence of towing when all your facilities are in your motorhome? Stopping enroute is easier; shopping is easier; inclement weather - not a problem, just park and retire to the back. All in all, a much easier expirence. If you are to tour Europe you will soon come across aires and stellplatz, these are for motorhomes only not caravans or folding campers. They are usually close to towns and villages, providing a cheap alternative to campsites. Combined with an elecric bike and public transport you can visit many cities, towns and attractions throughout Europe without the need to tow another vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ChrisB Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I echo what Brian says with regard to towing vehicles. For many years we towed a 5-berth caravan both in the UK and abroad with a number of VW T4 based high-top campers (mainly AutoSleeper Trident) - myself, wife + 3 children. No problems at all and the towing vehicle was our only vehicle at the time. It towed much better than the Espace it replaced. Also no problems parking the VW in standard bays. Changed to a 5-berth A-class (+ car for daily use). Great for long stays on sites (didn't and wouldn't tow the car), but hopeless for touring around small towns and villages.. Now (having lost the children - careless I know) have a LWB X/250 PVC plus a 500kg Annsems fully-enclosed aluminium trailer which acts as our "garage" for all the extra kit needed on long holidays - but it's left behind for shorter stays. Honestly can't tell when I'm towing the trailer - very little loss in performance. I'm sure the X/250 (120bhp 3.5t) would have little difficulty pulling a caravan (within the specified limits). Just like the OP we are seriously considering going back full circle and buying a modern T5 HT or RR (as our only vehicle) and pulling a folding caravan which now have a high level of equipment. Decision time in the autumn. But of course ultimately it's down to personal circumstances and choice. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyman101 Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 Hi Thanks for the replies,certainly given me a few things to think about Had a look at electric bikes but we do like driving a bit further some days so that rules out a big van. Popup caravans are probably heavier then folders but will check with manufacturers My partner/bank manageress would like something to use as a weekend/day van in this country because of the size and ease of parking -it can also go onto our driveway. She does not fancy going away in it for several weeks at a time which what will probably happen next year. Mind you she does like the A Class Vans We also are looking ahead to a more permanent lifestyle abroad possible 9/10 months a year and letting our house out. Having something small enough to get around rural French lanes would be an advantage -we tend to steer away from the crowds preferring peace and tranquility. I will have to check out the weights of various vans and trailers, be it folder/caravan etc and see if i can get a combination together. Will be going to the big show at the NEC in October to get more idea's and talk to a few people. At the end of the day it's going to be a big investment and so wanted to get a few idea's from people on the forum. Will also have to work our exactly what we want to do which will ultimantly dictate what we buy thanks :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheer lunar-see Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Hi Landyman. Over in France as I type this. We have a 6 berth, 8 metre, lunar roadstar 780, which is full to the gunnels as we were going to tour around for a year. You would be surprised at how much stuff you can get in one of these vans, even got all our ski gear on board, plus two dogs. like you we don't ride our bikes, not due to knees, but due to dogs!!! So we bought ourselves an A-frame and attached a Fiat Sciecento, W-reg, cost 200 quid for the A-frame and 300 quid for the car. And we've been everywhere in it. It has drawn lots of frowns and many a bemused look, we have even had the A-frame photographed whilst having coffee in a layby by an excited Frenchman. We have been watched by heads over the hedges as we connect the car on the back and have even been asked if OH has to sit in and steer it for the journey. they don't seem to understand how it could possibly follow us.But the best question came from an English lady, when we took the car out for a drive, who asked " how on earth did that car make it all the way from england". We just smiled sweetly. The beauty of the car, apart from accessing remote dog friendly beaches, is if on an aire we can scout round for a good cheap campsite easily. Would recommend it thoroughly. Nige and Dee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 sheer lunar-see - 2011-08-02 6:15 PM Hi Landyman. Over in France as I type this. We have a 6 berth, 8 metre, lunar roadstar 780, which is full to the gunnels as we were going to tour around for a year. You would be surprised at how much stuff you can get in one of these vans, even got all our ski gear on board, plus two dogs. like you we don't ride our bikes, not due to knees, but due to dogs!!! So we bought ourselves an A-frame and attached a Fiat Sciecento, W-reg, cost 200 quid for the A-frame and 300 quid for the car. And we've been everywhere in it. It has drawn lots of frowns and many a bemused look, we have even had the A-frame photographed whilst having coffee in a layby by an excited Frenchman. We have been watched by heads over the hedges as we connect the car on the back and have even been asked if OH has to sit in and steer it for the journey. they don't seem to understand how it could possibly follow us.But the best question came from an English lady, when we took the car out for a drive, who asked " how on earth did that car make it all the way from england". We just smiled sweetly. The beauty of the car, apart from accessing remote dog friendly beaches, is if on an aire we can scout round for a good cheap campsite easily. Would recommend it thoroughly. Nige and Dee I had a feeling someone would, sooner or later! :-) If wanting to pursue this idea, use the search facility above, enter A frame as the keyword, Motorhome Matters as the forum to search, and set time to one year. You will get a huge amount of information on this way to tow a car, including many words on it's legality in UK and Europe. Then, just make up your own mind how you feel about the legal "grey areas", and proceed accordingly. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmaggott Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 My personal view is why put 'the cart before the horse' and tow a car with a motorhome; if one is going to tow why not have a super-duper caravan and car? We love to get about on our bikes taking the dog with us. BTW, I have a great attachment for my bike that allows the pooch to run safely alongside, I have my hands where they're most needed, on the handlebars and should she pull sideways at all her weight is transferred to the base of the frame to prevent her taking me off course. She knows 'stop', 'go', 'left', 'right', etc and just loves to come along with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aultymer Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 "why put 'the cart before the horse' and tow a car with a motorhome; if one is going to tow why not have a super-duper caravan and car" I have seen 2 cars on their side after the caravan took over - I have never even heard of a Toad turning over a motorhome. We can choose to leave the car behind - caravaners must take theirs. I can stop, have the kettle on and a cup of tea in my hand with the Toad still attached in the time a caravaner takes to wind down the steadies. Wifes sense of balance went with her eardrum and I am too lazy so bikes are not on. No contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmaggott Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 aultymer - 2011-08-04 5:26 PM"why put 'the cart before the horse' and tow a car with a motorhome; if one is going to tow why not have a super-duper caravan and car"I have seen 2 cars on their side after the caravan took over - I have never even heard of a Toad turning over a motorhome.We can choose to leave the car behind - caravaners must take theirs.I can stop, have the kettle on and a cup of tea in my hand with the Toad still attached in the time a caravaner takes to wind down the steadies.Wifes sense of balance went with her eardrum and I am too lazy so bikes are not on.No contest. As I said it's my opinion, I don't expect everyone to think as I do; no need to exercise yourself about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 aultymer - 2011-08-04 5:26 PM "why put 'the cart before the horse' and tow a car with a motorhome; if one is going to tow why not have a super-duper caravan and car" I have seen 2 cars on their side after the caravan took over - I have never even heard of a Toad turning over a motorhome............................................... Nor will you, but that is not, of itself, IMO, a valid argument against caravans. What it is, is a very strong argument for matching car and caravan correctly, and then loading and driving both properly. When the van is sited, the car is always available for driving around. There are drawbacks, in terms of manoeuvrability, to the the combination, but these are (I would say invariably) less than for motorhome plus car (on A frame or trailer), also in terms of overall length, but not for larger motorhomes, and in terms of ferry etc and autoroute costs. However, so much depends on what is actually selected, when trying to make comparisons. The biggest drawback, to me, is the faff of un-hitching, levelling, connecting electrics, getting water, and then disconnecting, draining surplus water, dumping waste, and re-hitching, every time one stops, compared to the put on the handbrake, switch on the 12V, turn on the gas, bugger the weather, and "lets have a cuppa" simplicity of a halt in a motorhome. However, if one is going to make a bee-line for somewhere like Spain for the winter, even given the greater faff with en-route halts, I think a caravan plus awning with a car, makes far greater sense than a motorhome with canopy plus "safari room" towing a car. But, thats just me, and if we all thought alike, there'd be no room for anyone when we got there! Vive la difference! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aultymer Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 "Vive la difference!" Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheer lunar-see Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Hi Madmaggot, Different situation here, one collie who cannot walk in a straight line off or on the lead, good smells left and right that have to be investigated :-D and one springer, who knows the meaning of left, right, go, up and over but who definately does not , and I don't know a springer who does, know the meaning of the word stop!!! It would take us from now til xmas with the collie attached, to even get off the campsite let alone to the beach. With the springer, however, we could be in the sea in 2 seconds. And i mean. in the sea, bike and all!!! :-D No contest, car everytime. Nige and Dee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugga Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 I see that no-one has mentioned towing a scooter or small motorbike. You can get really short trailers that allow the bike to go crossways so it only adds about 1 metre to the length of your motorhome. They could possibly be the best compromise :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopesy Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 As the above post we tow a motorbike and have a small trailer for it. We don't always take it. There are scooters with plenty of storage for shopping trips, storing helmets when visiting town/ beach etc. No parking worries etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheer lunar-see Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Not many scooters I know, take two dogs and the misses, but hey ho, each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landyman101 Posted August 7, 2011 Author Share Posted August 7, 2011 More great ideas-thanks. The problem I have to get round is what I call the mars bar effect.How many to the pound. Smaller new vans can cost as much if not more then big 6 berth. My partner has commented about this and we both agree that we like some space especially when away for 2-3 weeks. I can see logic in all that you gals and guys say and it certainly will be a long process to get this together. I will search the back log of posts for more info to help us make the right choice. As I said before it's a big investment :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Tyke Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hello Landyman, First, why buy new? As soon as you start and drive off with it you have lost a great deal of money. Second, there are many "coach built" vans that are just a little larger than the "white van" that you mentioned and may be suitable for what you want. Finally IMO, ensure that whatever you choose you can use the shower/toilet are without being a contortionist........one of you may need to use them with a sprained/broken ankle etc......it happens! Good hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 If intending to tow with a coachbuilt (or an A class) two things. First, check that a towbar can, actually, be fitted. It is not possible with all, due obstructions and lack of appropriate fixing points at the rear. Second, look for vans with short rear overhangs. A long overhang is not good for trailer stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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