Vincent Tabak

[LordThornber]

Justice done or not?

 

Martyn

[Guest pelmetman]

Not yet............need a nice length of Chatham Hemp;-)

[Lord Braykewynde]

pelmetman - 2011-10-28 6:39 PM

 

Not yet............need a nice length of Chatham Hemp;-)

 

I can't agree. That's too quick and he needs to suffer. This wont happen in one of our comfy jails so he should be transferred to Zimbabwe :-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Lord Braykewynde - 2011-10-28 6:59 PM

pelmetman - 2011-10-28 6:39 PMNot yet............need a nice length of Chatham Hemp;-)

I can't agree. That's too quick and he needs to suffer. This wont happen in one of our comfy jails so he should be transferred to Zimbabwe :-)

You have an excellent point there your Highness;-)............we have exported all our industry abroad to save money*-)..............So why not do it with our prisons:D..............We need another Australia(lol) 

[malc d]

I just wish they wouldn't keep telling us that he got LIFE, when in fact he got twenty years.

 

>:-)

[Lord Braykewynde]

Another point I can't get my head around.

His brother and sister came over from Holland and attended court. The brother was seen to wink at him. This is after he had admitted killing her.

If one of my relatives had committed such a heinous crime I wouldn't want anything to do with them and and would also be too embarrassed to show my face in a public place, let alone court and the media.

[CliveH]

Now it seems that he has violent porn on his computor. A fact kept from the court case as it is better to get a conviction without reference to such material.

 

Now he is being interviewed by the police to find out exactly what this despicable person has been up to.

 

I really would like a referendum on the death penalty.

[malc d]

CliveH - 2011-10-29 8:23 AM

 

Now it seems that he has violent porn on his computor. A fact kept from the court case as it is better to get a conviction without reference to such material.

 

Now he is being interviewed by the police to find out exactly what this despicable person has been up to.

 

I really would like a referendum on the death penalty.

 

 

And what would you like the result to be Clive ?

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

malc d - 2011-10-29 9:12 AM

CliveH - 2011-10-29 8:23 AM  I really would like a referendum on the death penalty.

And what would you like the result to be Clive ?

A hung parliament(lol) 

[Syd]

malc d - 2011-10-28 7:15 PM

 

I just wish they wouldn't keep telling us that he got LIFE, when in fact he got twenty years.

 

>:-)

 

 

 

And I believe that means that he does 12 years

[Robinhood]

Syd - 2011-11-06 3:13 PM

 

malc d - 2011-10-28 7:15 PM

 

I just wish they wouldn't keep telling us that he got LIFE, when in fact he got twenty years.

 

>:-)

 

 

 

And I believe that means that he does 12 years

 

AIUI, unlike the workings of the parole system for other types of sentence, in the case of "Life" the minimum sentence, or tariff defines the minimum time before parole can be considered - no time off for "good behaviour", and a distinct possibility that it could be more than 20 years before release.

[Dave225]

I can make no real comment on the case as I was not in Court. However, I have not read anywhere of any previous convictions. He evidently had pictures of children in abusive situations on his computer but that does not necessarily lead to an attack on an adult, does it? I suspect that if a trawl of all the computers in the UK was made, then a lot of stuff that might not be considered appropriate, would be discovered. That does not make everyone who has it a potential killer. He was also supposed to be ‘hooked on hookers’. Again, if that was not quite prevalent then there would be no prostitution in this country. The other thing that is possibly of note is that he did not force entry, he was invited in by the victim. To me that does not suggest premeditation. If it was premeditated, why pick that time? Yes, he killed her and admitted that but I have a suspicion that an appeal may overturn the murder conviction. I feel that there are more unanswered questions still to come out.

[Lord Braykewynde]

Dave225 - 2011-11-07 7:30 PM

 

However, I have not read anywhere of any previous convictions. He evidently had pictures of children in abusive situations on his computer but that does not necessarily lead to an attack on an adult, does it?

 

The other thing that is possibly of note is that he did not force entry, he was invited in by the victim. To me that does not suggest premeditation.

 

First of all Dave to have pics of kids on his computer shows how sick he is and this is unlawful. To have these is only one step from actually being a part of the abuse. Indeed one could argue, using your anology of prostitutes, that if pics of abused kids weren't uploaded to the net there wouldn't be others like Tabak getting his sexual kicks from them.

Regarding him being invited into the flat we only have Tabaks version of events. His victim is no longer around to say otherwise and he has already proved to be a liar and evil by his deeds and the fact he was prepared to see an innocent person charged with the murder. I echo her parents words and regret there is no death penalty and hopefully for what time he spends in jail will be like a living hell. There again we all know that wont happen and the only thing he will be deprived of is his liberty. No doubt he'll be in solitary but hopefully some inmate will get their hands or razor on him :-D

[Dave225]

LB,

 

While your sentiments are probably familiar to most of us, unfortunately we do live in a democracy (I think) where the rule of Law still prevails, even if we sometimes feel it is an ‘ass’. If we legally allow executions then by all means, we do so, however, to encourage other prisoners to perform acts of barbarism is not the way forward. That is vengeance, not justice and is taking us back to the lynch mob.

 

If we take your point regarding prostitution then considering the huge number currently working in the UK, and presumably an even larger number of clients, then the murder rate in the country would be totally out of control. It is bad certainly, but there is no direct link between the numbers. I fully accept that every murder is one too many, but the link often made by vociferous bystanders, is not matched by fact. This guy’s fantasies regarding children were certainly not healthy, and one has to ask where the pictures actually came from, but do remember it is not so long ago that children of the age of 13 were legally allowed to get married in parts of the US, and other countries. They maybe still are, for all I know. Comparing this case with for example the atrocities carried out by Robert Black and the connection between the deeds and children is clear to see. However, I have not read of any information that Tabak either stalked children, or approached any in his life, maybe that is still to be shown, but I still do not subscribe to the connection between his addiction to internet porn and murdering an adult. There has been, to my knowledge, no information from Holland of any previous actions that would cause concern. If we take that connection then every child who watches a horror movie is likely to end up as a murderer.

 

Again, I do not for a moment condone his actions in any way, it is just that my understanding of murder was that there had to be a degree of malice or forethought, in other words he chose at that time to commit the deed prior to entering the flat and planned to kill her at that point in time. Of that I still feel there is doubt, but accept the decision of the Court. They were actually present during the trial, I was not. Yes, he was wrong to blame another for the crime, but similarly Amanda Fox also tried to implicate an innocent man, she received a 3 year jail sentence for that, but her conviction for murder was quashed on appeal, partly I accept by a bungled police investigation.

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

Dave225 - 2011-11-08 12:02 PM

 

Again, I do not for a moment condone his actions in any way, it is just that my understanding of murder was that there had to be a degree of malice or forethought, in other words he chose at that time to commit the deed prior to entering the flat and planned to kill her at that point in time. Of that I still feel there is doubt, but accept the decision of the Court. They were actually present during the trial, I was not. Yes, he was wrong to blame another for the crime, but similarly Amanda Fox also tried to implicate an innocent man, she received a 3 year jail sentence for that, but her conviction for murder was quashed on appeal, partly I accept by a bungled police investigation.

 

I cannot argue whether there was a bungled Italian police investigation or not although it is more likely the former. The point is Amanda Knox pleaded not guilty to murder whereas Tabak had admitted his guilt although by trying to say it wasn't premeditated. Premeditated or not, manslaughter or murder, her parents have lost a daughter and the chance of her having a family of her own. She is dead, here no more. Because of Tabak she no longer walks this earth and neither should Tabak.

If she was my daughter I would volunteer to release the trapdoor.

[nightrider]

Was Tabak invited into the girls flat? and did he take that as a "come on" did he get fresh with her and try to kiss her, did she scream out and did he panic? apparantly he only held her throat for a few seconds, was that enough to kill her? and did he panic again and then dumped her body?

At the end of the day a girl is dead, a bereaveved boyfriend and family and a man serving life, however long that may mean

[Dave225]

If you wish to have the 'eye for an eye' legal system then maybe you should join a religious group that follows that philosophy. We all have personal opinions but as a democratic society we have decided by a majority to outlaw death as a punishment. There are some societies in our world that still use stoning to death for the crime of adultery, and sometimes it is not even proven prior to the execution, which usually raises the 'we are civilised' brigade in the UK. Although there are frequent calls for the death penalty to be reinstated, I doubt that inthe event of a referndum, a majority would support it. I would also ask anyone who proposes it to actually be prepared to carry out the deed. Even Pierrepoint eventually found his maintaining a business approach, failed him in the end. I know the Americans have the great idea of whisking Magrahi off to the States to face trial and inevitable imprisonment, even if it means ressucitating him innumerable times to keep him alive. Does anyine believe seriously that is justice?

 

There is a difference between manslaughter and murder as there have been many instances where death arose due to to either panic, or ignorance or just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yes, a death has occurred and a tragedy for life for the victims family, but trying to decide if it was pre meditated is another matter. For example, a gas explosion in a factory killing a number of people. The management who possibly shortcutted the safety features are prosecuted for manslaughter, but was it a deliberate act of murder?? Innocent people still died.

 

I suspect Tabak did himself no favours by his actions after the event plus the number of wounds on the body. Although to stab someone up to 43 times seems rather difficult to achieve, even when beserk. Had he contacted the police right away then a case for manslaughter would have been more clearer, but I suspect that panic, and a desire to cover it up were at the freofront of his mind. Who is to say any of us would do dfiferently in the same circumstances? Mind you if it is true that Amanda Knox performed cartwheels in the police station after her arrest then one could be indulged for being suspicious., as were the Italian Police. In the case of Tabak there was no forced entry so the victim opened the door freely. There was, I believe not too much disturbance in the flat suggesting a frenzied attack.

 

Again, I am not in any way condoning his act, but I have doubts that the conviction for murder was necessarily the correct one under our Laws, but that is only based on what I have read and heard, which is I am sure nowhere near the whole picture.

[Lord Braykewynde]

Dave225 - 2011-11-08 7:27 PM

 

Again, I am not in any way condoning his act, but I have doubts that the conviction for murder was necessarily the correct one under our Laws, but that is only based on what I have read and heard, which is I am sure nowhere near the whole picture.

 

It would certainly have been a benefit to us all to have found him guilty of manslaughter. Instead of us taxpayers paying to keep him locked up for twenty years we would only have to keep him for approximately six years and probably less for good behaviour ;-)