Tea Cup Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I understand that there are new rulings being followed by the DVLA concerning registering vans which were originally built as panel vans and converted to motor homes. This issue has been aired in the MMM. I have searched for a thread on this site and not found anything, so it there is one, could someone post the link. Apparently some people are finding that their panel vans are being refused reclassification to motor homes, even if the conversion is done from new or by an established converter. The reasons this is very important are manifold, but the major ones are to do with some insurance companies refusing to insure vans if the DVLA does not allow the classification change to motor home; and the of reduced speed limits applying to panel vans compared to motor homes. I have just bought such a van that was converted from a panel van, and have been told by the C&CC's own insurance department that my insurance is reliant upon the DVLA allowing the change to MH, - which from what I read is by no means certain. I have yet to apply to the DVLA. They (C&CC's insurers) say that they know nothing of this new ruling even though it has been aired in the MH press, which is amazing since it is so relevant to their business. The ramifications of this seem at the face of it to be extreme, with so many companies and large manufacturers being reliant on PVC conversions. And if the insurance company connected with such a major camping organisation are not aware of the isssue, it does make me wonder what on hearth is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 I went through exactly this malarky with my PVC. I discovered that despite being converted by a recognised company it was still classified as an LGV on the reg doc. The implications being lower speed limits as you say, but more worrying was I was told that in the event of an insurance claim there was a possibility of me only receiving the equivalent of a bog standard panel van valuation. I went through hoops with DVLA, obtaining a letter from IH ( the converters ) and sending them numerous high resolution photographs to get this changed, I'm still not sure how effective that change has been as below. I duly received a new registration certificate, but the only thing that had been changed was the body type to Motor Caravan, the taxation class is still Light goods vehicle. I think it is nothing short of diabolical that converters are not on top of this, and never have been as far as I can see, and especially as they now cost upwards of 45k, n the case of IH, 55k. Get it written off on your first journey out and it could be " sorry mate, here's your 18K its only a panel van. DVLA like any government department is a nightmare to get any sense from, even they could not tell me to what speed limits I would be subject to after this change, I just err on the side of caution. As for wondering what on earth is going on, I'm bound to say, does anyone do anything right any more ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 You may find the following link useful (and hopefully encouraging) ;-) http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/inbox.shtml#dvla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tea Cup Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Well that is a little more encouraging, Robinhood, thanks for that link. I have more alterations that I need to do, but as far as I can see my van fits the requirements as it stands. The acid test is of course the vagaries of the DVLA. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 Ah! The DVLA.... An organistaion straight out of the pages George Orwell or Franz Kafka.. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aultymer Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 DVLA - not fit for purpose! Only interested in keeping themselves in work. No customer service, no accountability. Sack the lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin9591 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 You refer to new rulings but fail to explain what they are. Such information could be useful in understanding your predicament and how this could affect other pvc owners. Could you explain the effect of these new rulings, please. Regards Tea Cup - 2011-11-09 7:30 PM I understand that there are new rulings being followed by the DVLA concerning registering vans which were originally built as panel vans and converted to motor homes. This issue has been aired in the MMM. I have searched for a thread on this site and not found anything, so it there is one, could someone post the link. Apparently some people are finding that their panel vans are being refused reclassification to motor homes, even if the conversion is done from new or by an established converter. The reasons this is very important are manifold, but the major ones are to do with some insurance companies refusing to insure vans if the DVLA does not allow the classification change to motor home; and the of reduced speed limits applying to panel vans compared to motor homes. I have just bought such a van that was converted from a panel van, and have been told by the C&CC's own insurance department that my insurance is reliant upon the DVLA allowing the change to MH, - which from what I read is by no means certain. I have yet to apply to the DVLA. They (C&CC's insurers) say that they know nothing of this new ruling even though it has been aired in the MH press, which is amazing since it is so relevant to their business. The ramifications of this seem at the face of it to be extreme, with so many companies and large manufacturers being reliant on PVC conversions. And if the insurance company connected with such a major camping organisation are not aware of the isssue, it does make me wonder what on hearth is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John J Thompson Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Tea Cup - 2011-11-09 7:30 PM I understand that there are new rulings being followed by the DVLA concerning registering vans which were originally built as panel vans and converted to motor homes. This issue has been aired in the MMM. I have searched for a thread on this site and not found anything, so it there is one, could someone post the link. Apparently some people are finding that their panel vans are being refused reclassification to motor homes, even if the conversion is done from new or by an established converter. The reasons this is very important are manifold, but the major ones are to do with some insurance companies refusing to insure vans if the DVLA does not allow the classification change to motor home; and the of reduced speed limits applying to panel vans compared to motor homes. I have just bought such a van that was converted from a panel van, and have been told by the C&CC's own insurance department that my insurance is reliant upon the DVLA allowing the change to MH, - which from what I read is by no means certain. I have yet to apply to the DVLA. They (C&CC's insurers) say that they know nothing of this new ruling even though it has been aired in the MH press, which is amazing since it is so relevant to their business. The ramifications of this seem at the face of it to be extreme, with so many companies and large manufacturers being reliant on PVC conversions. And if the insurance company connected with such a major camping organisation are not aware of the isssue, it does make me wonder what on hearth is going on. The taxation class is irelevent. The fact that it is body type Motor Caravan that sets the speeds it can be driven at. PHGV PLG LGV only relate to how much you have to pay. New rules have been proposed (implemented) that a Motor Caravan must be recognisable as such at a glance by a Police officer or anyone else. Stealth camper with no windows do not meet this criteria so could no longer be classed as a Motor Caravan. This new rule is on top of what must be perminently fitted to the vehicle for it to be classed as a Motor Caravan. I agree that DVLA are not fit for purpose. They registered my imported Hymer S700 1992 as a Mercedes, Renault Scenic, pickup on the first log book they sent me. It then took years to get them to class it as PHGV instead of PLG. If you have any problems go to your local office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-11-09 8:01 PM ...I duly received a new registration certificate, but the only thing that had been changed was the body type to Motor Caravan, the taxation class is still Light goods vehicle... Your IHM Savannah Tio's V5C registration document should show the "Body type" as "MOTOR CARAVAN" and the "Taxation class" as "PRIVATE/LIGHT GOODS (PLG)". This should be the case with all UK-registered motorhomes up to 3500kg MAM. I agree that converters/dealers should be more careful when first registering a motorhome as, if any inaccuracy creeps in at that stage, it will often be tricky to correct. Similarly, buyers should study a newly-registered motorhome's V5C very closely as, even if the converter/dealer has supplied the DVLA with correct information, mistakes can still be made. When I've contacted the DVLA in the past I've never had cause for complaint. Like dealing with any multi-layered organisation, it's imperative to make it absolutely clear why you are contacting it and what you want it to do. That DVLA staff are unable to provide the information one requires should be no surprise - look at the questions asked on this forum and some of the responses they elicit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I did query the DVLA about the taxation class remaining unchanged on receipt of the new V5, despite the body type being changed to Motor Caravan after sending in the requested information, they said LGV was correct and could not be changed, who am I to tell them they don't know their own system, bemused as ever................ :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-11-10 9:07 AM I agree that converters/dealers should be more careful when first registering a motorhome as, if any inaccuracy creeps in at that stage, it will often be tricky to correct. Similarly, buyers should study a newly-registered motorhome's V5C very closely as, even if the converter/dealer has supplied the DVLA with correct information, mistakes can still be made. Although that sounds obvious,that is very good advice!... ;-) Although unfortunately Derek,our experience of dealing with DVLA differs from yours,somewhat... :-) When trying to correct an error on our V5,which showed a gross of 3500kg,when actually it was 3850kg(..probabaly down to the initial V5 been incorrectly completed),DVLA gave us the run around for about 6 months.With the advice from Swansea and our local office ranging from.... "just send it back in mate and we'' send you a new 'un"...Wrong " take van to VOSA and get a Design Weight Certificate"(to which the guys a vosa said "a wot?!")..Wrong "take it to be weighed,and that's the weight we'll enter on the V5"..Wrong ...and at each stage(and the many "substages"),each dvla staff member were ADAMANT that THEIR advice was correct!? In the end,I contacted Trigano in France and they issued a "attestation" stating that it was/is 3850kg.. Oops...Sorry off topic... :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkc Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I feel I must in all fairness relate my dealings with the DVLA. I used to spend a great deal of time restoring old motorcycles, never once have I had any cause to complain about the service I received, indeed when trying to ascertain the history of a BMW motorcycle I received a large envelope full of data regarding the original German importation of the machine. I don't doubt that many people have had their difficulties with the DVLA as we all have had with large complex organisations , but speaking from my own experience, no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 This 'Van With Windows' classification that the DVLA were applying to converted panel vans was extensively covered in the Self Build Motor Caravanners Club ( SBMCC ) forum as several of the members were having that classification applied to their newly converted vans. After many communications between SBMCC members and the DVLA, ( as well as some members invoking the assistance of their MPs,) and questions and discussions between the SBMCC itself and the DVLA, it seems that the DVLA changed their minds and new conversions ( as long as they comply with the specifications for a Motor Caravan ) are now being registered as such and have been for several months. There may also have been influences from other sources that I am not aware of, but ............ Don't worry ...... be happy ................. :-D Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Hello campers, This is only vaguely 'on topic' but could somebody please enlighten me as to the reasoning behind a few of the comments above? There are certain individuals that are concerned that their vehicles will be subject to the reduced speed limits that apply to panel vans if their conversions are not recognised as campers vans. My van of choice for everyday use is a Fiat Scudo LWB. It has brakes and handling akin to most large cars; certainly as good as any people carrier or SUV, but because it has a GVW over 2000kg is subject to the reduced speed limits. My van is rarely loaded with any more than a couple of cycles and a bag full of tools, whereas your campers vans, PVC or not are normally loaded to within an inch of their maximum GVW and yet certain members of this forum feel that they should be allowed to go faster than the mostly lighter panel van fraternity! It seems that some people want it all their own way. I don't agree with the reduced speed limits for panel vans nor the insane 56mph ruling for 3.5T to 7.5T vehicles when the year before they were allowed to do 70 on the motorway and could often do 90 or more! If the rules are there though, there should not be any exceptions. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 euroserv - 2011-11-10 12:29 PM Hello campers, This is only vaguely 'on topic' but could somebody please enlighten me as to the reasoning behind a few of the comments above? There are certain individuals that are concerned that their vehicles will be subject to the reduced speed limits that apply to panel vans if their conversions are not recognised as campers vans... I think the concern about the speed-limits issue really relates to clarity and standardisation, not a particular wish to drive at warp factor 10. There's useful infomation about motorcaravan speed limits on: http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-faqs.shtml#speed My Ford Transit-based Hobby falls into the sub-3050kg unladen weight category. It is correctly registered as a "Motor Caravan" and I occasionally drive it at the maximum speeds shown on the above link. It's never loaded to within an inch of its maximum GVW (As a non-motorcaravanner, what evidence do you have that this is normal practice?), but its on-road performance, handling, braking, etc. will undoubtedly be inferior to your Scudo. However, driving it as I do is legal because it's a MOTOR CARAVAN, but would not be so if it were incorrectly classed as a goods vehicle. If you want to argue that Motor Caravans should have lower speed limits applied to them, or that higher speed limits should apply to lighter-weight goods vehicles, that's fine by me - speed limits aren't written by the Almighty on tablets of stone. As long as I know what speed limits apply to the vehicle I happen to be driving, then I can choose to remain within those limits or not. If I think I'm driving a motor caravan, but it transpires that the vehicle has been wrongly classed as a goods vehicle (and, hence, subject to lower speed limits) then I'm potentially vulnerable to prosecution. I don't mind being prosecutred for breaking the law deliberately, but it would grieve me to be prosecuted as the result of a bureaucratic error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 When we bought our last van I noticed that the weight on the V5 was 3000kg and not 3300kg. I simply returned the V5 corrected with a photo of the weight plate and they sent the corrected V5 back. The taxation class is PLG and the body type motor caravan. These are the things to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 euroserv - 2011-11-10 12:29 PM Hello campers, This is only vaguely 'on topic' but could somebody please enlighten me as to the reasoning behind a few of the comments above? There are certain individuals that are concerned that their vehicles will be subject to the reduced speed limits that apply to panel vans if their conversions are not recognised as campers vans. My van of choice for everyday use is a Fiat Scudo LWB. It has brakes and handling akin to most large cars; certainly as good as any people carrier or SUV, but because it has a GVW over 2000kg is subject to the reduced speed limits. My van is rarely loaded with any more than a couple of cycles and a bag full of tools, whereas your campers vans, PVC or not are normally loaded to within an inch of their maximum GVW and yet certain members of this forum feel that they should be allowed to go faster than the mostly lighter panel van fraternity! It seems that some people want it all their own way. I don't agree with the reduced speed limits for panel vans nor the insane 56mph ruling for 3.5T to 7.5T vehicles when the year before they were allowed to do 70 on the motorway and could often do 90 or more! If the rules are there though, there should not be any exceptions. Nick I have to say you normally are the voice of reason, but I think to assume that us PVC lot are all going round loaded to within an inch of the limit is a bit much, but in any event it's about clarity. I've just been on the Direct Gov org website and there is no mention of Motor caravans in relation to speed limits, so I guess I'll stick to van speed limits. Must remember that when I see the next Merc Sprinter courier van passing me at 90 as they all tend to do. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-11-10 7:31 PM ...I've just been on the Direct Gov org website and there is no mention of Motor caravans in relation to speed limits, so I guess I'll stick to van speed limits... It's commonplace to be unable to obtain the information you require from a single website, forum or organisation. I don't think the UK Highway Code specifically defines what this country's speed limits are for a motor caravan, so it shouldn't be too surprising that the www.direct.gov.ukwebsite doesn't either. However, it's easy enough to ascertain from other sources the category of vehicle that a motor caravan falls into and to apply that datum (your Savannah Tio PVC will have an unladen weight no greater than 3050kg, so will be a 'car') to the UK speed limit tables that are on www.direct.gov.uk website and in the Highway Code. There's a lot of stuff on http://www.campervanlife.com/building/legal Some of the information may be out of date now, but the rest may be generally useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Thank you Derek, what a great link, and one to bookmark for both myself and others. Still seems astonishing that that very clear and concise information is quite difficult to find, so thanks again. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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