A million kids wih no jobs

[nightrider]

it says in the papers that there are a million kids with no jobs, thats awful, no hope no future and no potential, Sammy my grandson has been working with me for the last 3 months, his end of school exam results were brilliant, not surprising really seeing as his other grandad is a university professor and takes after him for brains. He has put out lots of CV's but as yet no bites from potential employers, but at least working for me his time is occupied and he has money in his pocket, he asked me had we enough work to take on his pal Joe so I said yes we can always find him something to do, its heartbreaking listening to these kids telling you what they would like to do but cant because of the job situation.

[CliveH]

We have just taken on an apprentice and the new government scheme is a great help here. We had loads of applicants all with good A level results but a lot with A levels in obscure subjects.

 

The guy we took on had 3 good A levels, one of which was in Financial Studies and this enabled him to chat sensibly at interview about what we did as a firm.

 

He has proved to be an excellent choice and can do things with spreadsheets in minutes what an old fart like me struggles to do in hours.

 

I think the powers that be could do more re Apprentiships etc. Much more in fact.

 

We are not going to get the economy going again by having a plethora of Media Studies graduates so well done to you and Sammy as any future employer will see his work experience with you Malcolm as a better "time spent" than if he took the easy option and followed the education sausage machine norm of moving to higher education in a numpty subject that gets the School a tick in a box for each "sausage" kept in the education machine.

 

A client of ours I saw yesterday has a son who got a reasonable degree in Chemistry but realised half way through the course that the very last thing he wanted to do was to sit in a lab behind a computer all day. He now says the 3 years were a total waste. He is an aerial rigger now.

 

The schools have an awful lot to answer for with their mantra of "pick a degree, any degree" because it is failing so many people.

 

Far better that Sammy works and gets experience and then decides what is best for him. Straight out of school is not the best time in my view to make such a decision

 

[Lord Braykewynde]

knight of the road - 2011-11-18 4:36 AM

 

it says in the papers

 

What're you doing reading the paper at 4.36am 8-)

[Randonneur]

CliveH - 2011-11-18 6:35 AM

 

 

 

A client of ours I saw yesterday has a son who got a reasonable degree in Chemistry but realised half way through the course that the very last thing he wanted to do was to sit in a lab behind a computer all day. He now says the 3 years were a total waste. He is an aerial rigger now.

 

 

 

Our Nephew did get his Degree in Chemistry and was also sponsored and offered a job at the end of it but he was so sick of the whole thing that he now works for a Travel Company and is happy as a lark.

[CliveH]

Interesting - especially as the subjects are the same. And your example does show that you do not have to stay in your education speciality to be happy and successful.

 

But I do think that kids are forced into ill-suited higher education courses too early. A gap year is a good idea.

 

An apprenticeship scheme is probably the best compromise with apprentiships being in academic subjects as well as practical.

 

After all working and getting a degree/HND/whatever in 5 years or so such that you have experience as well as qualifications is surely better than three years getting a degree of dubious value and debts of many £'000's.

 

[Guest pelmetman]

The education industry has for years been spreading the propaganda that you wont succeed in life with out one*-)..........and now there are 1000's of kids with a degree, no job and 1000's of pounds of debt............well done the education industry*-)

[CliveH]

Exactly Dave - whilst I have every sympathy for students who expected to get an education without a lot of cost but now find themselves possibly many tens of £000's in debt after three years - but is this not a "good idea" in that it should make kids and their parents question the VALUE of the qualification?.

 

A headline I saw the other day summed it up for me "The last thing the UK economy needs is more Media Studies graduates"

[LordThornber]

Our place took on a guy on leave from Uni. He wasn't enjoying Uni at all, he'd changed courses, had time out you name it.

 

Anyway he come to us a part time valeter. It's clear to see the lad is no dummy and he's putting in the hours including weekends - generally showing willing.

 

6 months later he's running our trade car section almost single handedly, introducing all sorts of new ideas and good initiatives.

 

He's £19000 in student loans to pay back, but if his efforts with us are anything to go by, he'll demolish them.

 

Martyn

 

[nightrider]

Lord Braykewynde - 2011-11-18 8:20 AM

 

knight of the road - 2011-11-18 4:36 AM

 

it says in the papers

 

What're you doing reading the paper at 4.36am 8-)

LB,

As a workaholic I had just got home from loading milk floats with the mornings delivery, I was having a coffee before going out on my paper round.

[Mel B]

I wonder how much of this has been caused by oldies being able to stay on at work after the 'normal' retirment age of 65 so that the jobs don't come up, with the outcome that people down the ladder don't get to move up and create an opening at the bottom.

 

I can only see this getting worse as the retirement age increases ... at least me and my hubby have done our 'bit' by leaving work and letting the money saved from our wages being used to fund others. :D

[Lord Braykewynde]

Mel B - 2011-11-18 5:54 PM

 

I wonder how much of this has been caused by oldies being able to stay on at work after the 'normal' retirment age of 65 so that the jobs don't come up, with the outcome that people down the ladder don't get to move up and create an opening at the bottom. :D

 

That could be one of the reasons and now the government are making people work longer it wont help the situation. Mass immigration has an impact along with many more women working compared to years ago when they stayed at home if having children. Also women work in what once were traditionally male jobs like the fire service, ambulance service and police.

[nightrider]

Mel B - 2011-11-18 5:54 PM

 

I wonder how much of this has been caused by oldies being able to stay on at work after the 'normal' retirment age of 65 so that the jobs don't come up, with the outcome that people down the ladder don't get to move up and create an opening at the bottom.

 

I can only see this getting worse as the retirement age increases ... at least me and my hubby have done our 'bit' by leaving work and letting the money saved from our wages being used to fund others. :D

Mel,

Sorry but you are talking complete balderdash, oldies have a wealth of experience the only reason employers take on youngsters is because they can hire them for peanuts, no one has the right to say to someone approaching 65, right you are out of the door, oldies still need money to survive and not many oldies have a decent enough pension to live on as the money they earnt in years gone by more than likely went on buying a house, not many pennies left to fund a pension pot was there?

[Dave225]

Although the headline figure shows a million the youth market can be subdivided into those who have qualitfications that are wanted by employers and those who don't, or have nothing. Employers have been describing that many of the candidates they get coming forward are illiterate and have no idea of what work actually means, so they are not going to be first choices. Some who actual;ly get the job find out that it is too much hassle getting up in the morning and quit. What will actually happen to them is anyone's guess as they will not be likely to learn too much now and there are no basic unskilled jobs out there anymore. Even bar work and restaurant work is now being taken by immigrants as they work for Agencies who have the contracts with the big Companies. Therefore unofficial closed shops operate, excluding Brits. I note one fast food outlet where 100% of the staff are non British. That should never be allowed but I suspect if the manager is non Brit then there is a tendency for similar nationailties to be preferred. In addition many immigrants are taken on for short term deals for say 4 months or so, and then get turfed out and replacements come in.

 

However, although the headlines continue to highlight this side of it it should also be noted that many many young people are getting work and doing well.

[Mel B]

knight of the road - 2011-11-18 7:54 PM

 

Mel B - 2011-11-18 5:54 PM

 

I wonder how much of this has been caused by oldies being able to stay on at work after the 'normal' retirment age of 65 so that the jobs don't come up, with the outcome that people down the ladder don't get to move up and create an opening at the bottom.

 

I can only see this getting worse as the retirement age increases ... at least me and my hubby have done our 'bit' by leaving work and letting the money saved from our wages being used to fund others. :D

Mel,

Sorry but you are talking complete balderdash, oldies have a wealth of experience the only reason employers take on youngsters is because they can hire them for peanuts, no one has the right to say to someone approaching 65, right you are out of the door, oldies still need money to survive and not many oldies have a decent enough pension to live on as the money they earnt in years gone by more than likely went on buying a house, not many pennies left to fund a pension pot was there?

 

I think it is you who is talking balderdash and obviously can't read either! *-)

 

I didn't say it had ANYTHING at all to do with wages, or experience, just if people aren't leaving, then there aren't as many jobs for anyone else .... simple.

 

As for pensions not being decent enough ... if they own a house then they have the option of releasing the equity in it to get an income to add to their pension, or get other benefits, or sell it, you may not think this is 'right' of course, but it is an option, just as putting money away into a pension fund was for a lot of people an option, but many people chose not to do this and spent it on other things instead like buying a house instead of renting. At the end of the day they made their choices and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, I think your very sweeping statement that not many oldies have a decent enough pension is unfounded and insulting to those who have bothered to contribute to schemes to ensure they are okay.

 

Anyway ... whilst I do not believe that oldies should be shown the door when they reach a 'certain age', tell me - where are the jobs going to come from for others? In the current economic climate it is highly unlikely that new jobs will be created is it?

 

:-S

[LordThornber]

Persons past retiring age still choosing to work I have no problem with. However..

 

There are some that really get my back up. And it's those who have nothing better to do with their lives. Or so they say.

 

What's the matter with these folk, it's not like they don't know it's coming, (retirement) do they? One at my Wifes' place literally worked herself into Hospital, her reason? She wanted to leave "on her terms" well she got that all right, albeit via an ambulance.

 

Those who are still attending work for no other reason than to occupy their time, well I struggle to both respect their choice or comprehend it.

 

Off the top of my head, I know OAP's taking at least 200 hours + per week out of the labour market. And they definitely come into the nothing better to do category.

 

Multiply that around the UK and that's a fair amount of jobs. I'll get me coat now.

 

Martyn

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Mel B - 2011-11-19 6:12 PM I think it is you who is talking balderdash and obviously can't read either! *-) I didn't say it had ANYTHING at all to do with wages, or experience, just if people aren't leaving, then there aren't as many jobs for anyone else .... simple.As for pensions not being decent enough ... if they own a house then they have the option of releasing the equity in it to get an income to add to their pension, or get other benefits, or sell it, you may not think this is 'right' of course, but it is an option, just as putting money away into a pension fund was for a lot of people an option, but many people chose not to do this and spent it on other things instead like buying a house instead of renting. At the end of the day they made their choices and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, I think your very sweeping statement that not many oldies have a decent enough pension is unfounded and insulting to those who have bothered to contribute to schemes to ensure they are okay.Anyway ... whilst I do not believe that oldies should be shown the door when they reach a 'certain age', tell me - where are the jobs going to come from for others? In the current economic climate it is highly unlikely that new jobs will be created is it? :-S

It's got nothing to do with older people hogging all the job's;-)......there are ten's of 1000's of jobs in this country being done by people who are prepared to get of their a**e and travel over a 1000 miles to do them8-)

As for pensions:D...........anyone who is self employed now days knows that private pensions are a waste of space.........unless you earn so much money that you have nothing better to do with it;-)..........WHY.......because the few peanuts a annuity will give you will only guarantee you are over any future benefit threshold;-)........and that's why their lordships are trying to bring in compulsory pensions for the self employed:D............Also their mates in the Pru & Co can then add a few more quid to their pensions8-)     

[nightrider]

Mel B - 2011-11-19 6:12 PM

 

knight of the road - 2011-11-18 7:54 PM

 

Mel B - 2011-11-18 5:54 PM

 

I wonder how much of this has been caused by oldies being able to stay on at work after the 'normal' retirment age of 65 so that the jobs don't come up, with the outcome that people down the ladder don't get to move up and create an opening at the bottom.

 

I can only see this getting worse as the retirement age increases ... at least me and my hubby have done our 'bit' by leaving work and letting the money saved from our wages being used to fund others. :D

Mel,

Sorry but you are talking complete balderdash, oldies have a wealth of experience the only reason employers take on youngsters is because they can hire them for peanuts, no one has the right to say to someone approaching 65, right you are out of the door, oldies still need money to survive and not many oldies have a decent enough pension to live on as the money they earnt in years gone by more than likely went on buying a house, not many pennies left to fund a pension pot was there?

 

I think it is you who is talking balderdash and obviously can't read either! *-)

 

I didn't say it had ANYTHING at all to do with wages, or experience, just if people aren't leaving, then there aren't as many jobs for anyone else .... simple.

 

As for pensions not being decent enough ... if they own a house then they have the option of releasing the equity in it to get an income to add to their pension, or get other benefits, or sell it, you may not think this is 'right' of course, but it is an option, just as putting money away into a pension fund was for a lot of people an option, but many people chose not to do this and spent it on other things instead like buying a house instead of renting. At the end of the day they made their choices and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, I think your very sweeping statement that not many oldies have a decent enough pension is unfounded and insulting to those who have bothered to contribute to schemes to ensure they are okay.

 

Anyway ... whilst I do not believe that oldies should be shown the door when they reach a 'certain age', tell me - where are the jobs going to come from for others? In the current economic climate it is highly unlikely that new jobs will be created is it?

 

:-S

There will be no new jobs forthcoming because British companies have relocated abroad to take advantage of the low rates of pay, and as for you saying release the equity in your house, cobblers thats the quickest way for someone to take over your home by stealth, how many pensioners have fell foul of these companies, you and your hubby are fortunate to be able to retire, sit on your laurels but dont castigate others not in your position.

[Dave225]

OK folks, lots of comments about the problem but what exactly are you going to offer as a solution?? Passing the buck to the Government to sort it out is not going to work, as we all know and it will affect your lifestyle wherever you are. So, we will have a generation of people who are unemployable and who inturn will breed, probably producing more of the same.

 

In days gone by we used to have wars and killed them all off, we still have the wars but cannot afford to put them all into the army anymore, so that will not work too well.

 

 

Send any good suggestions to 10 Downing Street as they do not have a clue.

[Guest pelmetman]

Dave225 - 2011-11-19 7:42 PMOK folks, lots of comments about the problem but what exactly are you going to offer as a solution?? Passing the buck to the Government to sort it out is not going to work, as we all know and it will affect your lifestyle wherever you are. So, we will have a generation of people who are unemployable and who inturn will breed, probably producing more of the same.In days gone by we used to have wars and killed them all off, we still have the wars but cannot afford to put them all into the army anymore, so that will not work too well.Send any good suggestions to 10 Downing Street as they do not have a clue.

Seems like a good time to go long terming to me;-)

[nightrider]

I think we should let the Germans take us over, over the last 30 years Britain has slowly sank into the mire.

[nightrider]

pelmetman - 2011-11-19 7:49 PM

 

Dave225 - 2011-11-19 7:42 PMOK folks, lots of comments about the problem but what exactly are you going to offer as a solution?? Passing the buck to the Government to sort it out is not going to work, as we all know and it will affect your lifestyle wherever you are. So, we will have a generation of people who are unemployable and who inturn will breed, probably producing more of the same.In days gone by we used to have wars and killed them all off, we still have the wars but cannot afford to put them all into the army anymore, so that will not work too well.Send any good suggestions to 10 Downing Street as they do not have a clue.

Seems like a good time to go long terming to me;-)

Yeah, but will you be able to afford the diesel? and then again you might be forced off wherever you pitch up.

[Lord Braykewynde]

LordThornber - 2011-11-19 6:34 PM

 

Off the top of my head, I know OAP's taking at least 200 hours + per week out of the labour market. And they definitely come into the nothing better to do category.

 

 

Martyn

 

 

 

 

So do I and none of them are short of money. Two of my ex-colleagues retired and went back on the bank. The reason they gave was because they'd be bored *-)

Both of them have wives who have retired so it doesn't say much for them. Both of them got more years in than I did with the ambulance service and I can cope on my pension. They were also in a position to buy extra years whereas the conditions had changed when I joined the service.

I'd hate my wife to go back to work because now it's our time together. This is the reason we only bought a 2 berth caravan, no passengers as much as we love our grandkids :-)

Some more friends of ours both work for the NHS. One is still working past retirement age and the other has gone on the bank and I know many more in a similar position.

[Guest pelmetman]

knight of the road - 2011-11-19 8:12 PM Yeah, but will you be able to afford the diesel? and then again you might be forced off wherever you pitch up.

But I'm sure my mates from Out & About Live will let me stay on their drives for free:D............. FG must have a big gravel drive that would accommodate my little old camper?(lol)  

[nightrider]

pelmetman - 2011-11-19 8:53 PM

 

knight of the road - 2011-11-19 8:12 PM Yeah, but will you be able to afford the diesel? and then again you might be forced off wherever you pitch up.

But I'm sure my mates from Out & About Live will let me stay on their drives for free:D............. FG must have a big gravel drive that would accommodate my little old camper?(lol)  

Dave,

Now that Antony is in foreign parts wouldn't it be funny if when he got back he found half a dozen travellers caravans on his lawn and drive and all hooked up into his electric ha ha.

[Brian Kirby]

Interesting. Long on analysis, but short on solutions. I'm not surprised, because if any of us knew the solution, so too would the government!

 

Every problem above has a potential solution, but at each turn there is a block to progress. The block, ultimately, is that if we are to reduce the combined government and private levels of debt, less money has to be spent. Spending less, in order to save more, inevitably shrinks the economy, unless we can increase our exports. However, exporting is also difficult because a) we have relatively little (of an employment generating kind) to export, b) most of our potential customers are in the same bind and following a similar path, and c) our currency continually fluctuates in value (but generally falls), so no exporter knows how much to charge for his product.

 

We need economic growth, because that seems to be our only remedy, and it seems that growth will have to be home grown instead of export led. Question arises, how? One thing no-one has mentioned is the number of jobs we have exported over the years. Both production capacity, where UK companies have simply shifted their manufacturing bases overseas, but also in things like call centres. So, maybe a little repatriation of those jobs back home would grow our economy? Might also, at the simpler level, generate call centres where the respondents are almost intelligible, to boot! :-)