A million kids wih no jobs

[Colin Leake]

A lot depends on what degree is taken. We helped both our lads to select sensible degrees that would see them in good jobs. One took mathematics with actuarial science and the other mathematics and computing. Both when straight from university into work and both now are on mega bucks, have families and own their own houses.

 

By contrast a friends son took some oddball course in marine biology, stayed on and took a Phd and now at forty he has never worked and still lives with his mother. There are simply no jobs available in that sphere and no one wants to employ him due to his being over qualified and his total lack of work experience.

[Dave225]

There are solutions but no one is prepared to adopt them.

 

If young people are to be employable they need to have good educations and practical skills therefore you have to scrap the current education system that will not allow competition and refuses to accept that bad behaviour is simply that, and not a result of any social ills. Punishment needs to match the crime in more ways than one. However, it will not happen because the Human Rights Act forbids it and current education policy refuses to accept that not all children are winners and that any mickey mouse qualification will gurantee a millionaire's lifestyle. . Sometimes you need to throw out the bad apples to keep the rest of the barrel in good shape. I also doubt that the teaching profession will be willing to give up their current easy lives in order to actually try and do their jobs correctly. Some do try, but far far too many don’t.

 

You also need to ensure that any vacancies that are available go to UK kids first, but that breaks EU rules on allowing every immigrant in the world to come in to the UK, so again will be a non starter. You need to ensure that your manufacturing base is healthy and growing to provide the vacancies but that will require incentives from any Government who are far more interested in the quick buck made from financial services, plus again any incentives will again fall foul of EU rules. It is interesting to note that France in particular seems to manage to circumvent these obstacles, but we evidently cannot. The obvious answer is to leave the EU but that is evidently the path to the Apocalypse according to some. Personally I think the Apocalypse is coming if we stay in, but who am I to know?

 

At the other end, albeit on a smaller scale one should not allow anyone who is claiming a pension to be working in the same environment. The idea that you can retire at 50 plus on a whacking great pension and then immediately re hire as a consultant is ludicrous. There have been many comments about ‘bed blocking’ well job blocking is probably also as bad. It is seen most absurdly in politics and public sector work where MP’s or whatever are often well over the age of retirement but do not wish to go and allow younger people to take over.

 

Of course, even if any of the above did see the light of day, you still have the current crop of illiterate misfits to sort out. The Americans were always fond of chain gangs for miscreants, possibly a version of that would be a start. Even if only 10% decided that was enough and went to night school to get what they needed, it would be something. As for the rest? Well, there are plenty of motorways to sweep clean. £6 per hour and no benefits. Take it or starve. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, or so the say.

[nightrider]

I have just heard that my grandson Sammy has been successful in the job interview that he attended a couple of weeks ago, next week he has to go on a 4 hour induction course, so, it is a start.

Basically he has been working for the last 3 months straight into work from school. lets see how things pan out?

[Gwendolyn]

Dave225 - 2011-11-20 4:22 PM

 

There are solutions but no one is prepared to adopt them.

 

If young people are to be employable they need to have good educations and practical skills therefore you have to scrap the current education system that will not allow competition and refuses to accept that bad behaviour is simply that, and not a result of any social ills. Punishment needs to match the crime in more ways than one. However, it will not happen because the Human Rights Act forbids it and current education policy refuses to accept that not all children are winners and that any mickey mouse qualification will gurantee a millionaire's lifestyle. . Sometimes you need to throw out the bad apples to keep the rest of the barrel in good shape. I also doubt that the teaching profession will be willing to give up their current easy lives in order to actually try and do their jobs correctly. Some do try, but far far too many don’t.

 

You also need to ensure that any vacancies that are available go to UK kids first, but that breaks EU rules on allowing every immigrant in the world to come in to the UK, so again will be a non starter. You need to ensure that your manufacturing base is healthy and growing to provide the vacancies but that will require incentives from any Government who are far more interested in the quick buck made from financial services, plus again any incentives will again fall foul of EU rules. It is interesting to note that France in particular seems to manage to circumvent these obstacles, but we evidently cannot. The obvious answer is to leave the EU but that is evidently the path to the Apocalypse according to some. Personally I think the Apocalypse is coming if we stay in, but who am I to know?

 

At the other end, albeit on a smaller scale one should not allow anyone who is claiming a pension to be working in the same environment. The idea that you can retire at 50 plus on a whacking great pension and then immediately re hire as a consultant is ludicrous. There have been many comments about ‘bed blocking’ well job blocking is probably also as bad. It is seen most absurdly in politics and public sector work where MP’s or whatever are often well over the age of retirement but do not wish to go and allow younger people to take over.

 

Of course, even if any of the above did see the light of day, you still have the current crop of illiterate misfits to sort out. The Americans were always fond of chain gangs for miscreants, possibly a version of that would be a start. Even if only 10% decided that was enough and went to night school to get what they needed, it would be something. As for the rest? Well, there are plenty of motorways to sweep clean. £6 per hour and no benefits. Take it or starve. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, or so the say.

 

Where do you teach?

[Lord Braykewynde]

Gwendolyn - 2011-11-20 5:59 PM

 

Dave225 - 2011-11-20 4:22 PM

 

There are solutions but no one is prepared to adopt them.

 

If young people are to be employable they need to have good educations and practical skills therefore you have to scrap the current education system that will not allow competition and refuses to accept that bad behaviour is simply that, and not a result of any social ills. Punishment needs to match the crime in more ways than one. However, it will not happen because the Human Rights Act forbids it and current education policy refuses to accept that not all children are winners and that any mickey mouse qualification will gurantee a millionaire's lifestyle. . Sometimes you need to throw out the bad apples to keep the rest of the barrel in good shape. I also doubt that the teaching profession will be willing to give up their current easy lives in order to actually try and do their jobs correctly. Some do try, but far far too many don’t.

 

You also need to ensure that any vacancies that are available go to UK kids first, but that breaks EU rules on allowing every immigrant in the world to come in to the UK, so again will be a non starter. You need to ensure that your manufacturing base is healthy and growing to provide the vacancies but that will require incentives from any Government who are far more interested in the quick buck made from financial services, plus again any incentives will again fall foul of EU rules. It is interesting to note that France in particular seems to manage to circumvent these obstacles, but we evidently cannot. The obvious answer is to leave the EU but that is evidently the path to the Apocalypse according to some. Personally I think the Apocalypse is coming if we stay in, but who am I to know?

 

At the other end, albeit on a smaller scale one should not allow anyone who is claiming a pension to be working in the same environment. The idea that you can retire at 50 plus on a whacking great pension and then immediately re hire as a consultant is ludicrous. There have been many comments about ‘bed blocking’ well job blocking is probably also as bad. It is seen most absurdly in politics and public sector work where MP’s or whatever are often well over the age of retirement but do not wish to go and allow younger people to take over.

 

Of course, even if any of the above did see the light of day, you still have the current crop of illiterate misfits to sort out. The Americans were always fond of chain gangs for miscreants, possibly a version of that would be a start. Even if only 10% decided that was enough and went to night school to get what they needed, it would be something. As for the rest? Well, there are plenty of motorways to sweep clean. £6 per hour and no benefits. Take it or starve. Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, or so the say.

 

Where do you teach?

 

It matters not where he teaches. With his points about human rights, UK kids being given preference for jobs rather than immigrants, leaving the EU, getting rid of politically correct teachers, soft justice, health & safety, those in high public life milking the system and the need for the couch potato's on benefits to sweep the roads he needs to be a politician in cabinet. He'd get my vote :-)

[Gwendolyn]

Oh, not trying to make any point at all. Just interested, and I should have phrased that, "In what sector do you teach?" as he sounds like many a disenchanted member of the profession, especially in the secondary / tertiary sectors... so I was just being curious. That's all.

[Mel B]

Mel B - 2011-11-18 5:54 PMI wonder how much of this has been caused by oldies being able to stay on at work after the 'normal' retirment age of 65 so that the jobs don't come up, with the outcome that people down the ladder don't get to move up and create an opening at the bottom.I can only see this getting worse as the retirement age increases ... at least me and my hubby have done our 'bit' by leaving work and letting the money saved from our wages being used to fund others. :D

pelmetman - 2011-11-19 6:57 PMIt's got nothing to do with older people hogging all the job's;-)......there are ten's of 1000's of jobs in this country being done by people who are prepared to get of their a**e and travel over a 1000 miles to do them8-)

As for pensions:D...........anyone who is self employed now days knows that private pensions are a waste of space.........unless you earn so much money that you have nothing better to do with it;-)..........WHY.......because the few peanuts a annuity will give you will only guarantee you are over any future benefit threshold;-)........and that's why their lordships are trying to bring in compulsory pensions for the self employed:D............Also their mates in the Pru & Co can then add a few more quid to their pensions8-)

Dave, I actually said, originally 'I wonder how much of this has been caused by oldies being able to stay on at work after the 'normal' retirment age of 65", I did NOT say that older people were hogging ALL the jobs ... 8-) As for the pension, I was talking of what has happened in the past, not what is known about and/or is happening now. :-S

[Mel B]

knight of the road - 2011-11-19 7:40 PM

 

There will be no new jobs forthcoming because British companies have relocated abroad to take advantage of the low rates of pay, and as for you saying release the equity in your house, cobblers thats the quickest way for someone to take over your home by stealth, how many pensioners have fell foul of these companies, you and your hubby are fortunate to be able to retire, sit on your laurels but dont castigate others not in your position.

 

... I forgot about that big CHIP on your shoulder .... *-)

 

I certainly did not castigate others, unlike you who is trying to do that to me. I made it quite plain that there's nothing wrong with the choices people make, but it is, after all, their choice. We have made many choices, some of which others will not agree with or understand, if we were able to 'do it all again', we may make other choices, but we are where we are so there's no point in thinking 'what if'.

 

The point I was trying to make is that people still have choices, just because someone is older, it doesn't mean that that's it, they're stuck with what they have ... how many people are 'asset rich, cash poor'? Hence my mentioning the equity release. I personally wouldn't want to go down that route, however, if it was the best/most appropriate option, I'd consider it.

 

As for British companies going abroad ... how many of them are now moving back to the UK I wonder .... :-S

[Dave225]

No, I am not a teacher either now or in a previous incarnation. Ironically I was offered a teaching training position when I came out of universiy in the early 70's as I was a scientist even although my particular science was not a school subject. I politely declined and went into industry. However, on bringing up my own kids in the 80's the EIS (Educational Institute of Scotland) or the main teaching union decided to go on a protracted strike and stated that although all the kids who were at that time, doing their main exams were suffering, they did not care, they just wanted more money and less hours. Eventuallty they got a 25% pay rise and less hours and.......education standards fell through the floor. Now they are at it again.

 

Where I live here in Edinburgh over 45% of all children go to Independent Schools. That is a heck of a lot of pupils in a city of over 400000 people, and no, the parents are not all filthy rich. Many have realised the State system is the route to failure and will work all the hours given to pay for a decent education for their kids. The exam results show the difference., plus in general the kids have more ideas of what they wish to do and are motivated. The majority are leaving school and, either go to university to do a proper degree, or are getting work. The model is out there, many of us over the age of reason remember it well. it is just until we get the State sector to conform, we will not resolve the issue. That is not the sole reason for the current malaise, but it is a significant part. Parents also have a role to play and should be encouraging their kids to move forward. Pretending that their kids are all 'princesses' who can do no wrong is never going to work in society, and the kids get a shock and often rebel. The number of parents whom one hears stating' once he/she goes to school it will be alright' is not an answer. The damage has already been done.

[Gwendolyn]

Dave225 - 2011-11-20 8:28 PM

 

No, I am not a teacher either now or in a previous incarnation. Ironically I was offered a teaching training position when I came out of universiy in the early 70's as I was a scientist even although my particular science was not a school subject. I politely declined and went into industry. However, on bringing up my own kids in the 80's the EIS (Educational Institute of Scotland) or the main teaching union decided to go on a protracted strike and stated that although all the kids who were at that time, doing their main exams were suffering, they did not care, they just wanted more money and less hours. Eventuallty they got a 25% pay rise and less hours and.......education standards fell through the floor. Now they are at it again.

 

Where I live here in Edinburgh over 45% of all children go to Independent Schools. That is a heck of a lot of pupils in a city of over 400000 people, and no, the parents are not all filthy rich. Many have realised the State system is the route to failure and will work all the hours given to pay for a decent education for their kids. The exam results show the difference., plus in general the kids have more ideas of what they wish to do and are motivated. The majority are leaving school and, either go to university to do a proper degree, or are getting work. The model is out there, many of us over the age of reason remember it well. it is just until we get the State sector to conform, we will not resolve the issue. That is not the sole reason for the current malaise, but it is a significant part. Parents also have a role to play and should be encouraging their kids to move forward. Pretending that their kids are all 'princesses' who can do no wrong is never going to work in society, and the kids get a shock and often rebel. The number of parents whom one hears stating' once he/she goes to school it will be alright' is not an answer. The damage has already been done.

 

Thank you for your considered, eloquent, articulate, accurately written and well reasoned reply to my query.

[Guest pelmetman]

Mel B - 2011-11-20 8:01 PM Dave, I actually said, originally 'I wonder how much of this has been caused by oldies being able to stay on at work after the 'normal' retirment age of 65", I did NOT say that older people were hogging ALL the jobs ... 8-)

My point was Mel;-) Is that we now have apparently 3 million unemployed8-).... and since 1997 we have had 3 million immigrants, figures courtesy of migration watch......................

Net immigration quadrupled to nearly 200,000 a year between 1997 and 2009. In 2010 it was 239,000. Over 3 million immigrants have arrived since 1997.

I know its not PC to point out such things:D........ and in the fluffy world of the liberal elite8-)..... to suggest that British jobs should be done by British workers is tantamount to heresy(lol)   

[Lord Braykewynde]

pelmetman - 2011-11-20 8:58 PM

 

I know its not PC to point out such things....... and in the fluffy world of the liberal elite..... to suggest that British jobs should be done by British workers is tantamount to heresy 

 

Go and wash your mouth out 8-)

[Mel B]

pelmetman - 2011-11-20 8:58 PM

 

I know its not PC to point out such things....... and in the fluffy world of the liberal elite..... to suggest that British jobs should be done by British workers is tantamount to heresy 

 

Just one problem with that ... try to define 'British'!!!! :D

[Guest pelmetman]

Mel B - 2011-11-20 10.48pm Just one problem with that ... try to define 'British'!!!! :D

Someone born in Britain would be a start:D

[malc d]

pelmetman - 2011-11-21 6:55 AM

 

Mel B - 2011-11-20 10.48pm Just one problem with that ... try to define 'British'!!!! :D

Someone born in Britain would be a start:D

 

 

 

... and whose parents were born in Britain ?

 

 

(?)

;-)

[Lord Braykewynde]

malc d - 2011-11-21 9:21 AM

 

pelmetman - 2011-11-21 6:55 AM

 

Mel B - 2011-11-20 10.48pm Just one problem with that ... try to define 'British'!!!! :D

Someone born in Britain would be a start:D

 

 

 

... and whose parents were born in Britain ?

 

 

(?)

;-)

 

... and those whose grandparents were born here take precedence (lol)