peterjl Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Hi My motorhome is 30 months from registration (when i purchased new) and has completed 24500 miles. I regularly check tyre pressures. I looked at my tyres and find Front tread depth = 3.5mm (over tread bar i measured <2mm) rear tread depth = 7mm measurements taken on outside tread - the centre tread is marginally deeper but not a significant difference. Current tyres are Continental Vanco Camping tyres 215/70 R15 I am wondering how much life the front tyres have in terms of miles as i am off to Spain for january and will do, say, 2800 miles ish. I tried to approach this scientifically by trying to finf out tread depth when new to calculate tread wear per mm but cannot find the info. For peace of mind and safety i am thinking of changing now but is that just throwing money away. I would welcome thoughts, ideas, experience from the group. I have read dozens of previous threads but they focus on age rather than traed depth remaining as the criteria for change Many thanks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 New motorhome tyres generally have 9 or 10mm of tread. Your real question should be "if I don't change them now how much does my risk of an accident increase?". I would replace them now rather than risk an accident. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 As you have proboly know the legal limit for tyres is 1.6mm, but in reality anything below 3mm is IMO time to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art338 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 New tyres could be the cost of saving your life and others too perhaps art! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 If in doubt ( and you seem to be ) I'd change them. You are not throwing money away anyway, you are simply changing them a bit sooner than you planned - no real financial loss is involved. Peace of mind wins. Have a safe trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Hi Thank you for your thoughts: I will try to change over next two weeks. Of course that bring up the question do I change like for like or perhaps for an alternative: there are loads of threads on that topic so I'm off to do my research. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Do not forget new ones go on the REAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 jhorsf - 2011-11-27 6:14 PM Do not forget new ones go on the REAR Why?? Surely if i put on the front, with wear about 50% less on the back, i will equalise wear! + If i switch rears to front they will wear out in no time! What am i missing Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 peterjl - 2011-11-27 6:26 PM jhorsf - 2011-11-27 6:14 PM Do not forget new ones go on the REAR Why?? Surely if i put on the front, with wear about 50% less on the back, i will equalise wear! + If i switch rears to front they will wear out in no time! What am i missing Peter Any manufacturer will allways advise to put new on rear, this is to prevent oversteer. Allso for many (proboly not yourself) this will ensure tyres get worn down before they age to much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I take the view with our motorhomes that it is better to replace early and get the benefit of the new tyres yourself rather than later a let the next owner have the benefit of the new tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Assuming 8mm of tread when new, which is pessimistic, 5,500 miles per mm. Assuming 10mm, maybe a little optimistic, 3750 miles per mm. So, on a 2,800 mile trip, 0.5mm in the first instance and 0.75mm in the second. So you are liable to return with 2.75 to 3.0 mm, depending on what you actually started with. Given that you journey will be in winter (January), I think your decision to change tyres before leaving is wise. Standard advice from the industry is now is to put the best boots on the rear. It is intended, as stated above, to reduce the chances of an uncontrollable rear end break out. However, you will know best how you drive (hardish, I'd guess from that rate of tyre wear, especially on bends, possibly braking into bends?), and your van is presumably FWD. But, have you had the tracking checked? Only you can decide whether to place traction above rear adhesion as a priority. There is no obligation to follow the recommendation, it is general advice aimed at the average driver. Still, 3.5 tonnes going sideways is, to say the least, interesting! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 peterjl - 2011-11-27 5:06 PM Hi Thank you for your thoughts: I will try to change over next two weeks. Of course that bring up the question do I change like for like or perhaps for an alternative: there are loads of threads on that topic so I'm off to do my research. Peter If you plan to fit 'camping-car' tyres (Continental, Michelin or Pirelli) as replacements for your worn Continental VancoCamper tyres, then I strongly suggest you check out availability without delay. Camping-car tyres go through unpredictable periods of extreme scarcity when supplies can completely dry up. It's also far from unknown for tyres apparently to be available via on-line adverts but not in reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Thank you For my first search for tyres i phones my local specialist tyre supplier this morning (i usually get my trailer tyres there and i see them supplying tyres to a range of vehicles) - so far they haven't tracked any down. I have looked at Black Circles on line and website implies they are in stock however not keen on the local fitting companies they use - i may riing them if my usual supplier is out of luck. Turning to Brians point - i don't consider myself a "hard driver" - in fact the opposite as with other vehicles i am light on both tyre and brake wear. In light of this i wondered what the usuall life of a front tyre is in terms of mileage. Finally; from an earlier post someone said they fitted Vanco four season - these are not a specialist camping tyre and wondered about there use/appropriateness as they may be an option. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Hi Peter. Comment re hardish driving wasn't intended to be critical! :-) You're at about the same stage as us this summer regarding tyre wear/mileage. I think I must drive our 'van a bit harder than most people, and have done a lot of miles on mountain roads, so made a similar assumption for you, based on mileage/wear. I had FourSeason fitted this summer (so it could have been me you remember), mainly because I found the standard Vancos a bit short on traction at the front. However, ours has heavily rear biased weight distribution, so wheelspin on wet uphill starts was not unknown! So far (southern France and back in autumn) I have found them fine. They seemed to give better traction on grass, though it was not really that soft, but that could just have been the nice new, deep, tread! I also felt the front was more secure on wet tarmac than before, with no wheelspin experienced. However, as above, that could equally be just the new tyres. There is perhaps a tiny bit more noise, but barely audible, and possibly more differing in pitch than volume. No local suppliers could source the FourSeason, so I got them over the internet from Camskill, whose response was excellent, and the tyres were only a couple of months old when delivered. Fair price, but fitting obviously extra. Including fitting, about what others were quoting fitted, but then had no stock. Fitting was more difficult than sourcing. Our local ATS, who I had asked to get me some and couldn't, wouldn't fit, as their head office had just issued an instruction banning fitting tyres they had not supplied. Didn't like the second firm's lack of knowledge re valves (watch this!), so had to go further afield, but was eventually done. However............................our van came on plain vanilla Vancos, and the FourSeasons are a pretty exact equivalent (same size, speed and load rating), so only tread pattern and, I was told, mix vary. At a push, though strongly contra-indicated, they could be mixed on the same axle. This is relevant with our van as I carry a spare and that is a standard Vanco. Next time around I shall get three FourSeasons fitted, when I shall have the same boots all round. On delivery, I found the FourSeason tyres were M+S rated, so also winter legal in Germany! Nothing I had read before buying said that, so I was additionally happy. Since your van has "camping" tyres, you will need to check carefully that a non-camping tyre will be suitable for load and speed. Specifically, if 2 x the tyre load rating is close to the axle limit, and you have not yet had the van weighed fully laden, then I would either stick to camping tyres, or check the axle limits, remembering to load to the hilt first, before changing. I would also have considerable reservations over mixing a camping tyre with a standard LCV tyre on the same axle, so if you have a camping spare, unless you intend changing the lot, I think I'd stick with camping until they all have to go, presumably next time around. In all events, check what the manufacturer says before changing type, especially about mixing camping and non-camping on the same axle. My final thought is that Michelin Agilis Camping are reportedly M+S rated, which suggests they are not purely a summer tyre, so might be a suitable alternative that could reasonably be mixed with VancoCamping if necessary. But, as above, the mixing should be checked before proceeding. The problem with mixing is of some relevance to performance, but possibly more relevant to insurance. The usual insurance conditions state that the vehicle must be properly maintained. Fitting a tyre mix that the manufacturer recommends against might, therefore, become contentious, if you were involved in an accident where tyres were thought to have contributed. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Thank you Brian I hadn't taken your comments as critism it was more satisfying myself that the wear was not inappropriate. I also wonder if mileage in Turkey was a factor in increased wear as many road seem to have a very rough grained surface. Anyway, my man phoned a little while ago and has come up with some vanco campers so i will be swopping like for like which seems the safest answer. I will check date/age. You mentioned valves and i hadn't thought about this - i assume metal valves are in order - i think thats what is fitted but its too dark to go out and check - if they are metal can they be left in place or do they also need replacing? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 4 mm is often considered to be minimum for winter conditions, if you are going to drive in Germany minimum tread depth is 3 mm if you get stopped with tyres under 3 mm of tread you will not be allowed to proceed until you have replaced the tyres will legal ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshell Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Brian You are correct, Michelin Agilis Camping tyres are M & S rated, I have recently had them fitted all round, cheapest place I could find was surprisingly Kwik Fit advised by local depot manager to buy them on the internet from Kwik Fits web site, they then delivered them to my local depot who fitted and balanced them all in the price, only extra charge would have been to replace the metal valves but as he didn't have any in stock he just fitted new schraeder valve cores FOC. Regards Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 peterjl - 2011-11-28 6:28 PM............You mentioned valves and i hadn't thought about this - i assume metal valves are in order - i think thats what is fitted but its too dark to go out and check - if they are metal can they be left in place or do they also need replacing? Peter I'm pretty sure you will already have metal valves, Peter. Providing they are in good condition I believe it is acceptable to simply renew the cores. My point, not well explained, is to ensure that the tyre fitters either do as above, and replace cores only, or make an exact, like for like, replacement. There have been one or two reports of metal valves being removed and snap in rubber substituted, in one case, if memory serves (But does it?? :-)), not even using an HP snap in valve. I think that was discovered when the valve popped out again! No competent fitter should ever do this, but not all firms carry the the metal valves, and folk sometimes do strange things to cover deficiencies - so it is probably worth double checking in advance what they will give you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 The only other thing I would add to what has already been said is to Check the Recommended tyre inflation pressures, I found the Michelin Van tyre range to have a higher inflation pressure than continental van tyre,s and gave a harder ride, if I am correct Michelin max 80psi Continental 65psi, I stand to be corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Michelin "Agilis Camping", despite its M+S marking, is nevertheless a 'summer' tyre. See http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/van-motorhome-tyres/summer?xtor=SEC-3030-GOO-[product:_van_summer_tyre]--S-[michelin%20agilis%20camping]#filter=summer "Agilis Alpin" is Michelin's 'cold weather' (winter) equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-11-30 7:01 PM Michelin "Agilis Camping", despite its M+S marking, is nevertheless a 'summer' tyre. See http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/van-motorhome-tyres/summer?xtor=SEC-3030-GOO-[product:_van_summer_tyre]--S-[michelin%20agilis%20camping]#filter=summer "Agilis Alpin" is Michelin's 'cold weather' (winter) equivalent. From the page on the Camping Tyre:- "Versatility (M+S marked) M+S = designed to be suitable for mud and snow conditions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-11-30 7:16 PM Derek Uzzell - 2011-11-30 7:01 PM Michelin "Agilis Camping", despite its M+S marking, is nevertheless a 'summer' tyre. See http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/van-motorhome-tyres/summer?xtor=SEC-3030-GOO-[product:_van_summer_tyre]--S-[michelin%20agilis%20camping]#filter=summer "Agilis Alpin" is Michelin's 'cold weather' (winter) equivalent. From the page on the Camping Tyre:- "Versatility (M+S marked) M+S = designed to be suitable for mud and snow conditions." Hi It is a little odd that Michelin website say the Agilis is a "summer" tyre yet it is marked as M&S - i found this conundrum when i was doing my research. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I think they have just not updated the picture which has the summer icon on it, they don't mention summer anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 My point was in relationship to the German winter driving requirement that now requires, as I understand it, tyres that are at minimum marked M+S. I therefore assume that Agilis Camping, being M+S marked, may be acceptable. Clearly it would be wise to check before acting on that assumption. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 peterjl - 2011-11-30 8:30 PM lennyhb - 2011-11-30 7:16 PM Derek Uzzell - 2011-11-30 7:01 PM Michelin "Agilis Camping", despite its M+S marking, is nevertheless a 'summer' tyre. See http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/van-motorhome-tyres/summer?xtor=SEC-3030-GOO-[product:_van_summer_tyre]--S-[michelin%20agilis%20camping]#filter=summer "Agilis Alpin" is Michelin's 'cold weather' (winter) equivalent. From the page on the Camping Tyre:- "Versatility (M+S marked) M+S = designed to be suitable for mud and snow conditions." Hi It is a little odd that Michelin website say the Agilis is a "summer" tyre yet it is marked as M&S - i found this conundrum when i was doing my research. Peter Please refer to this earlier (2007) thread: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=6254&posts=9 As shown on their website, the only genuine ‘winter’ tyre-pattern in Michelin’s LCV tyre-ranges is “Agilis Alpin”. The equivalent ‘winter’ pattern in Continental’s LCV tyre-ranges is currently “VancoWinter-2”. See: http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/ca/en/continental/automobile/themes/van_tires/winter/winter_en.html It will be noticed from the above website that Continental also markets an ‘All Season’ pattern (“VancoFourSeason”) that Brian has chosen to fit to his Hobby Van’s front wheels. This is a sort of hybrid but, although it shares some of the characteristics of a ‘winter’ tyre (eg. a high number of sipes in the tread-pattern) it’s still not the full-house job. I begin to wonder whether any forum member (other than me) has actually seen a full-house LCV winter tyre. It’s very different from a ‘summer’ tyre with a tread-design that’s absolutely covered in carefully-positioned narrow sipes (slits). And, invisible to the eye, the winter tyre will use a compound that remains soft in low temperatures when a summer tyre’s compound will stiffen up. If you look at the following webpages and zoom the pictures of the tyres, it will be apparent how the number of sipes decreases as the tyre-design moves from full-winter, through summer/M+S, to full-summer. http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-agilis-alpin http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-agilis-camping http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-agilis (There's lots more earlier forum stuff on summer/winter tyres. Seaching with M+S in the Keywords box should get most of it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.