Guest pelmetman Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-01-14 6:25 PM pelmetman - 2012-01-14 5:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2012-01-14 4:18 PM But Clive, that is supposed to be our unique advantage in staying out of the Euro. We thereby have total dominion over our currency, so are free to trade our way into a golden sunset, while the clouds gather over those misguided foreigners! Are you really saying someone else, somewhere else, controls the value of Sterling? Damn! :-) I think you miss the point Brian ;-)...............We know the UK is a basket case because its part of the EC......but we are faring slightly better because we haven't been stitched up with the euro as well, so have more tools to dig ourselves out of the hole that Labour put us in *-) Don't want to digress, but must disagree. To the extent we are a basket case, it is not anything to do with the EU. It is the result of successive governments (roughly in this order) failing to settle policy, resorting to excessive dogma, and over-borrowing to buy us goodies so that they remained in power. I can see no evidence we should have gained a better bunch of politicians, or policies, had we not joined the EEC. IMO, blaming our predicament on the EU merely seeks to shift the blame form us and onto someone else. The hard truth is that we are where we are because of what we, and we alone, have done, and have not done. No-one else but us has been in charge over the past 50 years. The Euro is flawed, no question. However, its main problem is not that it is flawed, it is that some of its members exploited its flaws to enable them to borrow too much, for exactly the same reasons as our politicians borrowed too much: to buy popularity, so as to remain in power. If it survives, expect those flaws to be eradicated by the imposition of far stricter oversight of sovereign budgets. Who then will exercise stricter oversight of our sovereign budget? Ah yes, the same bunch who got us over-borrowed in the first place. Good, I'm glad that is now all settled for the better! :-D Yep, agreed they're both flawed ;-)...........so the sooner we can start from scratch the better............Its pretty obvious that politicians as a breed are incapable of organizing anything except their expenses.......... Plus its only they, and those who live off the gravy train that believes we need the excessive bureaucracy and wish to preserve the status quo *-) Its time for a fresh approach to running the asylum ;-) Not that I expect anything to change......so I will carry on in my own sweet way :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Anyone who thinks this is good news (except very temporarily to British holiday makers) is nuts.The hardship this will cause to a lot of French people for a start.Also the backlash to Britain when they can't afford to purchase our goods, or holiday here.The far right will rise too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 [Are you really saying someone else, somewhere else, controls the value of Sterling? Damn! :-) The Euro is flawed, no question. However, its main problem is not that it is flawed, it is that some of its members exploited its flaws to enable them to borrow too much, for exactly the same reasons as our politicians borrowed too much: to buy popularity, so as to remain in power. If it survives, expect those flaws to be eradicated by the imposition of far stricter oversight of sovereign budgets. Who then will exercise stricter oversight of our sovereign budget? Ah yes, the same bunch who got us over-borrowed in the first place. Good, I'm glad that is now all settled for the better! :-D Brian the main problem is exactly that the euro is a flawed project and has in fact lasted longer then most economists projected. It has been proped up by polictical will and in the end the markets will defeat that. Any country having a negative balance of payments or goverment debt is not normally a problem, the USA have had one since we began to record them and they have not done to badly over the years. The reason their is not a problem for a major economy, and we are still one, is that to cover a shortfall in its finances a goverment can just print some money, the markets know this and so will lend money to that government, before anyone points it out i am aware this can have comebacks if they print to much. The euro stopped this practice in its tracks so it becomes a problem with even countries like Germany not immune to downgrades, even the rate at which Germany and the UK borrow money has never been closer. The euro also removes governments other weapons like interest rates, we still control our own. It will only really work if their was a single control over all the countries in it, a united states of europe. For me on a personal note i would rather the UK took its own chances and remained independant, get out of europe completely. On a good personal note the exchange rate on Friday was the best since early 2010 and will probaly reflect this in tourist rates by tuesday, all good then. When Greece drops out it may even get close to 1.30, more good news. Incidently i tend to agree this thread should be moved but we need a decent moderator to do that and to deal with the worst abuse, perhaps the owners could appoint one, how about you Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-01-14 10:50 AM peter - 2012-01-13 11:00 PM I don't believe it.......some nobs posted on motorhome matters about the french downgrade. What's that go to do with motorhomes?. (lol) (lol) All to complicated for you Peter, never mind a couple of others have kindly saved me from trying to explain this simple matter to you. Rupert in Peters defence . I think its you that finds his point to difficult . He was in effect defending you for posting on here . I give up . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 michele - 2012-01-15 11:56 AM rupert123 - 2012-01-14 10:50 AM peter - 2012-01-13 11:00 PM I don't believe it.......some nobs posted on motorhome matters about the french downgrade. What's that go to do with motorhomes?. (lol) (lol) All to complicated for you Peter, never mind a couple of others have kindly saved me from trying to explain this simple matter to you. Rupert in Peters defence . I think its you that finds his point to difficult . He was in effect defending you for posting on here . I give up . Michele, I fully admit to sometimes replyng to quick for my own good, maybe the case here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-01-15 11:18 AM..................................... The euro stopped this practice in its tracks so it becomes a problem with even countries like Germany not immune to downgrades, even the rate at which Germany and the UK borrow money has never been closer. ........................... Just a quickie on this, but I gather that is not the case. Amazingly, it seems it is another of the flaws, because each government remained responsible for printing Euros, so there was no overall control over total supply. Now that, you really couldn't make up, could you? Moderate? You are too kind!! Er, I think! :-D Poison pill? But no, far too time consuming for me, and I'd have to stop contributing (vested interests and all that), which is far more fun (for me)! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-01-15 12:55 PM michele - 2012-01-15 11:56 AM rupert123 - 2012-01-14 10:50 AM peter - 2012-01-13 11:00 PM I don't believe it.......some nobs posted on motorhome matters about the french downgrade. What's that go to do with motorhomes?. (lol) (lol) All to complicated for you Peter, never mind a couple of others have kindly saved me from trying to explain this simple matter to you. Rupert in Peters defence . I think its you that finds his point to difficult . He was in effect defending you for posting on here . I give up . Michele, I fully admit to sometimes replyng to quick for my own good, maybe the case here. Oh well atleast your man enough to admit it :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm firmly convinced that no one really knows anything about any of this currency and financial malarky. I could understand the concept of swapping half a pig for a couple of sacks of potatoes, after that I think it all went pear shaped . :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-15 2:06 PM I'm firmly convinced that no one really knows anything about any of this currency and financial malarky. I could understand the concept of swapping half a pig for a couple of sacks of potatoes, after that I think it all went pear shaped . :-) That sounds about right Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Poppy - 2012-01-15 8:29 AM Anyone who thinks this is good news (except very temporarily to British holiday makers) is nuts.The hardship this will cause to a lot of French people for a start.Also the backlash to Britain when they can't afford to purchase our goods, or holiday here.The far right will rise too. Blimey 8-)..................When did you see a French man on holiday in Britain (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-01-15 3:37 PM Poppy - 2012-01-15 8:29 AM Anyone who thinks this is good news (except very temporarily to British holiday makers) is nuts.The hardship this will cause to a lot of French people for a start.Also the backlash to Britain when they can't afford to purchase our goods, or holiday here.The far right will rise too. Blimey 8-)..................When did you see a French man on holiday in Britain (lol) (lol) From what French people have told me in the past, they have always found it too expensive to holiday in the U.K. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-15 2:06 PM I'm firmly convinced that no one really knows anything about any of this currency and financial malarky. I could understand the concept of swapping half a pig for a couple of sacks of potatoes, after that I think it all went pear shaped . :-) It's because no-one understands what is going on that the Credit Rating Agencies have taken over running the world. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob the builder Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Further to this discussion, it may be of interest that comment has been made by a British MEP that those visiting europe this year ( and this would include me) should try to ensure that any euros drawn before leaving the UK have a preffix from one of the stronger euro nations. eg Germany or Holland. Apparently each euro nation prints irs own notes denoted by a prefix, if there is a collapse the stronger nations will be tempted to refuse to take euros, say from Greece. He also recommended staying away from large denomination notes 100e and above. I am off to the Mosel this year and have yet to bottom out this info, but it was reported in the press and I will be doing my best to limit my exposure. It will not put be off however, happy days - :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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