snail Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hi all, ok time to replace my batteries, 2 x 110amp energy, marine & recreation is printed on them, they are approx 5 years old, so not bad? googled them no longer made? Problem is finding replacements of correct measurements, the 300mm max lengh in paticular, this is because they are mounted under the seats, the max length of 302mm in between seat frame where bolted to van floor. My van is a Hymer a class 2005 built, on ducato maxi, with isri seats and swivels, i would lke to know what other people have fitted in similar vans, as i can only find 100amp ones to fit at the moment from Tanya batteries web site, would that make much difference? We are retired spending 7 to10 months or so in the van, have 130watt solar panel, always off ehu between April and November, and square wheeled for usually 3 to 4 weeks at a time, so good batteries are a must, use a scooter as a run around, live in Gloucester area, but will fit them myself. appreciate any help/advice regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Have a look here - I have bought from them online, delivered next day, and are the lowest prices I have found http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 or try here maybe http://www.tayna.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Or even here, I had two delivered next day, and keen pricing too, 4 year warranty on the ones I bought, ( but time will tell how good a warranty if ever I need to claim ! ) Mine too had to fit under the seat frames, but not sure you can get that capacity in that size, be aware of the frame height as well. I should add that I was told the ratings of batteries has been altered, not quite sure how it works, but told along the lines of ones that were rated say at 110 amp, are now rated less even though physically the same size, but are still essentially the same, go figure. Also look for charge/discharge cycle life, some are rated as little as 150 cycles apparently, that's not much is it, ones I purchased being 500 cycles ( I hope ) http://batterymegastore.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-15 6:08 PM I should add that I was told the ratings of batteries has been altered, not quite sure how it works, but told along the lines of ones that were rated say at 110 amp, are now rated less even though physically the same size, but are still essentially the same, go figure. Basically, the faster you discharge a battery, the less electricity you get out of it. eg to produce 100 amps for 1 hour needs a bigger battery than 1 amp for 100 hours. So manufacturers used to quote the capacity of their batteries when discharged extremely slowly. Now, due to new EEC Regs, they have to quote the capacity when discharged at a more realistic speed, which has meant that quoted capacities are now less than they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carebear Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Puchased 2 x 110 Lucas leisure batteries from Alpha-Batteries they sell pairs on Ebay £189.00, the store sell on ebay under a different name, i rang and said i seen them on ebay can i have them for that price as i couldnt see the pairs sold on their main site was told no problem ordered them then with her over the phone Ordered xmas week delivered following day, cannot remember the ebay name now but check Alphas phone number to compare with the ebay site its the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carebear Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Got the ebay seller energy-centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The challenge for Brian is to identify an under-seat battery configuration that will provide maximun amp/hours capacity. A brief GOOGLE-search confirms Brian's findings (undoubtedly much more extensively researched than mine) that 110A/h-marked leisure batteries nowadays are longer than his critical 300mm-length limit. On that basis, it doesn't really matter whether fitting currently available 100Ah-marked batteries will "make much difference" regarding usage (probably not) as there's no obvious alternative if the batteries are to be located in the limited under-seat space. Assuming that the replacement batteries will be installed under the seats, consideration should be given to the type of battery chosen, as battery ventilation and maintenance will be potential issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hi Derek, My failing batteries were fitted May 07, by Solar Solutions, they have never been looked at since fitting, have been ok, the original 85 amp gel battery was fitted beneath the drivers seat by Hymer. My point is really this is a very common idea on a common vehicle, so what do other owners have under their seats, I was trying to copy other owners idea's rather than troll the web which gets very boring after an hour or two regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Well if they are standard ducato seat frames the only ones I could find to fit were 88 amp ones, I did look at higher capacity ones, but removed the seats to make a more accurate measurement and nothing larger would fit, or would have been extremely tight, so did not wish to take a chance. As my previous post above, the company below has a very comprehensive search facility for length, width, battery type etc on their site, which should save you a lot of time searching out a suitable pair. Hope the links below help. Specifically this one,105 amp but do check for fit size http://batterymegastore.co.uk/product/DC27/ or this one 88 amp as I purchased ( two of ) http://batterymegastore.co.uk/product/DC24/ http://batterymegastore.co.uk/ ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Thanks 1 foot in the grave for your info, i have had a look at the site and yes i may go for the 105 amps, have also sent out a couple of enquiry e-mails to companies so will see what comes back regards brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If you follow this link, it will take you to a page on the Tayna website where you can enter the maximum physical dimensions of the battery, select 12V only, and let the search suggest alternatives. http://tinyurl.com/8yrk3ho I'm just thinking that with two batteries under the seat, you will probably also be limited by width and height, as well as length. There isn't much variation in battery case sizing between makes, so the claimed capacities depend much more on how well filled the case is (some have big cases, but relatively smaller plates), and how the manufacturer chooses to quote his information. Weight is a rough guide, the heavier the battery for a quoted capacity, roughly, the better quality it is likely to be. Capacity may be quoted at varying discharge rates, and to varying depths. I'm not the person to go into detail on this, although Jon (Brambles) undoubtedly is, and understands the ways in which certain manufacturers flatter their products by selectively quoting their characteristics, in ways that confuse most of us into thinking two 110Ah batteries will turn out to be just that - 110Ah batteries - , when one or both may be, but equally, neither may be! Look to see at what discharge rate the capacity is quoted: a 20 hour rate should be used for comparisons. Look to see what depth of discharge (DoD) is quoted, this should not exceed 60%. Look to see how many cycles are quoted: 800 or better should be achieved. So, you should end up with something like 110Ah to 60% DoD @ 20hr rate, 800 cycles. In use, try not to discharge below 50% for maximum life. Hopefully Jon will pick up on this, and make all far clearer than I can manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If it's possible to shoehorn in the 302mm-long 105Ah Alphaline battery from batterymegastore, then it may also be possible to fit the 110Ah Lucas battery advertised here: http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/buy-online/caravan-batteries-boat-batteries-leisure-batteries/lucas-12v-sealed-calcium-110ah-leisure-battery/prod_110.html And, if a 302mm-long battery won't go, how about an Elecsol 100? http://www.lake-batteries.co.uk/elecsol-100ah-deep-cycle-leisure-battery-1-p.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hi Derek, thanks for your input, that Elecsol 100amp seems impressive with a 1000 cycles! i can squeeze in 302mm, i have removed front pass seat to get definate sizes, battery megastore have a alphaline 105amp,calcium, dc27, with 450 cycles, which is better than my failing ones that were 250 cycles which have lasted nearly 5 years, so they are front runners at the moment, and they are only 15 miles up the road, do you know if a calcium battery has any advantages, is that the norm for wet batteries now? will watch the post for another 24 hrs before committing thanks again snail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 As my earlier post, with a lot of time on my hands I looked into this in great depth before buying mine just a few months ago, if you really want to make your eyes glaze over you can read all about the differing technologies here. I'm led to believe that calcium technology allows sealed for life batteries. But with a caveat, gases apparently can still escape, and should be vented to the outside. I've personally never bothered, there seems enough drafts in a Ducato cab to do the job, maybe somewhat different in a semi-sealed enclosed locker though. http://www.driverstechnology.co.uk/car-batteries.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 You mean an Elecsol model 100 ( more like 80 Ah) and certainly not 1000 cycles...I shall say no more than it is a bog standard battery and nothing special - all marketing hype. Some people say they are excellant, others say they are absolute rubbish. Also bear in mind a top quality 80 ah can have the same performance as a budget 100Ah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hi Brambles, as you regarded as the expert in this field, what do you think of my choice of the Alphaline dc27? supposedly 105 amp, calcium, 500cycles? regards snail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 not ignoring your post and will take a look after lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 snail - 2012-01-17 12:04 PM Hi Brambles, as you regarded as the expert in this field, what do you think of my choice of the Alphaline dc27? supposedly 105 amp, calcium, 500cycles? regards snail There may be some confusion over the term "Expert" in users profile, and I know nothing of Brambles expertise or otherwise in the normal use of the term, perhaps he has spent a lifetime in wet cell battery research and development I for one do not know. I really think MMM does no one any favours in the use of this term as it only relates to how many posts someone has posted, even if understood by some of us, some new users are quite rightly confused by this. Most users on here can only give you an opinion,which for the most is exclusively their opinion only. As he states some folk will say something is rubbish, others will swear by it, you just have to pick through the bones of it and come to your own conclusion in the end. Good luck with it. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 This is going to be a bit of a disjointed post I am afraid but hopefully wil make some sense. The Alphaline DC27 is of the same stable as a lot of similar looking sealed batteries of this type from Lucas/Numax, and others. It is also in the replacemnet series for your Squadron Energy battery (recreational and leisure ) which were not really particulary good batteries for deep discharging being dual starting and leisure. They are manufactired by AtlasBX of Korea who are a world wide respected manufacture and produce some very good starter batteries supplying the likes of Ford and other OEMs. See http://www.atlasbx.co.kr/eng/product/product_list/Product_View_SC.do and also download catalog on that page. Onto the DC27. Atlas BX manufacture 3 types now in this series. The XDC, DC and XV which repsectively are Dual purpose deep cylcing and starting, Dual purpose Starting and Deep cycling, and Marine Startiing. Confused? Dont be. the XDC is basically a deep cycle battery and the one to go for. It will have a cycle life of around 300 cycles.( the ones you have were about 150) The DC is a starting with deep cycle capabilty so will be only around 200 cycles life and i what most rebadgers are selling as it is cheaper. ( equivalent to what you had). Battery Mega store say cold cranking not applicable, and say deep cycle which points towards it being an XDC, but the label on picture matches the AtlasBX DC, so what is it they are selling? Hiding the cranking amps to make it look like deep discharge only maybe!! This is the problem, we have as customers determining what they are selling. Battery Megastore claim theirs is 105Ah. Bull*****, its 90 Ah, but lets be forgiving because a lot of all vendors do this spec upping nonsense. If it is an XDC then it is a good battery and good value and will certainly outperform what you had and I would say is a very good option as is utilsing your space well v expected performance. However if it is a plain DC then you need to consider what other 90 Ah batteries will fit but I expect they will all be 330mm or longer and lower in height so no go in that respect. I have not yet really answerd your question which I suppose comes down to should you buy them. If they confirm they are XDC then yes. If they are just DC then just remember they are at the upper end of the budget batteries and a comparison with a Bosch or Banner 80 Ah may show the 80Ah to be better technically, but I suspect will cost a bit more. If you were happy with your squadrons then no reason not to go for the DC27. In the UK we often have hobson's choice to some extent and cannot always find sources for what is ideal, but is compensatd for by teh fact batteries are far cheaper in the Uk than rest of europe by a long shot. ( I think most of Europe have a disposal tax built into the price which we do not - same with lubricating oil) On cycle life I am basing on 50% discharge. The Banner and bosch I mentioned will give roughly 450cyles at 60% of top of my head. 50% of 90ah = 45ah discharged 60% of 80ah but I am going to call 75Ah as is closer to reality) = 45Ah discharged. Now I have really confused the issue so shall stop here and post my driffle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-17 1:35 PM snail - 2012-01-17 12:04 PM Hi Brambles, as you regarded as the expert in this field, what do you think of my choice of the Alphaline dc27? supposedly 105 amp, calcium, 500cycles? regards snail There may be some confusion over the term "Expert" in users profile, and I know nothing of Brambles expertise or otherwise in the normal use of the term, perhaps he has spent a lifetime in wet cell battery research and development I for one do not know. I really think MMM does no one any favours in the use of this term as it only relates to how many posts someone has posted, even if understood by some of us, some new users are quite rightly confused by this. Most users on here can only give you an opinion,which for the most is exclusively their opinion only. As he states some folk will say something is rubbish, others will swear by it, you just have to pick through the bones of it and come to your own conclusion in the end. Good luck with it. ;-) Snail was picking me up as being an expert from the previous thread link which was posted, not from title below avatar. You shall just have to guess as to what my past is and experience. If people learn something from my ramblings fine, if not then equally fine. I am Brambles, take me as you find me and that is who I will be to you. "As he states some folk will say something is rubbish, others will swear by it, you just have to pick through the bones of it and come to your own conclusion in the end" Diplomatic way of saying they are crap - I do not want to offend those who wrongly believe they are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 No I was not saying that at all, I was merely stating some have different opinions on what is good or bad is shaped by their experience of a product. Any information from someone with specific expertise is hard to come by, that's the only point I am trying to make regarding your post, and was trying to establish if you had specific expertise in this area that's all, which may help the OP an anyone else following the thread make an informed choice. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-01-17 2:33 PM No I was not saying that at all, I was merely stating some have different opinions on what is good or bad is shaped by their experience of a product. Any information from someone with specific expertise is hard to come by, that's the only point I am trying to make regarding your post, and was trying to establish if you had specific expertise in this area that's all, which may help the OP an anyone else following the thread make an informed choice. ;-) You'll note my 'Posts count'. Where battery-related expertise is concerned I am not worthy to wipe the dust from Brambles' sandals. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hi Brambles, thankyou for your time and trouble taken to answer post. how on earth are we to find out the truth? as my old batteries are marked as 110amp, 250 cycles! is there any point beleiving what manufacturers say, print or advertise? I will e-mail battery megastore and ask about the dtv, and if they are true deep cycle or combination of the two, but i suppose will have to beleive what they tell me, although as you say they are claiming the dc27 will have 500cycles? As you rightly point out my old squadrons have been ok for nearly five years, which i guess ain't too bad, at the end of the day if you buy cheap enough and renew them after 3-4 years thats the best you can expect.... I did pick up from Brian's post and many previous that you were somewhat knowledgable in this field regards snail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 See if this works, graphical indication of life of DC v XDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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