leisure battery renewal

[Mike B.]

Hi

Try these-I got 2 from them and have never had a problem with them. They fit under seats perfectly (Mine is also a Ducato with swivel seats)

Free Very fast delivery-also do 'ex display models' at a discount too

 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-110AH-LOW-HEIGHT-LEISURE-BATTERY-4-YR-GTEE-/170760879886?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item27c2243f0e

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

[snail]

Hi Again Brambles,

 

I have asked about the different types you suggested (DC or XDC) deep cycle or combined

 

I have had a return e-mail from battery megastore, stating that the DC27, is a genuine deep cycle only 105 amp battery?

 

So i suppose should buy them..........

 

Thanks Brian

[arthur49]

Brambles - 2012-01-17 11:37 AM

 

You mean an Elecsol model 100 ( more like 80 Ah) and certainly not 1000 cycles...I shall say no more than it is a bog standard battery and nothing special - all marketing hype. Some people say they are excellant, others say they are absolute rubbish.

 

Also bear in mind a top quality 80 ah can have the same performance as a budget 100Ah.

 

Its interesting the way that manufacturers/distribitors appear to confuse/exaggerate capacities. I have 2 x Platinum 100Ah AGM batteries. I understand that 100Ah is the "10 hour rate" so I asked distributors what the more 'normal' 20 hour rate was - they had no idea. So I have no idea if I have 200Ah or 160Ah or somewhere in between.........or less!

 

Arthur

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-17 2:33 PM

 

No I was not saying that at all, I was merely stating some have different opinions on what is good or bad is shaped by their experience of a product.

 

Any information from someone with specific expertise is hard to come by, that's the only point I am trying to make regarding your post, and was trying to establish if you had specific expertise in this area that's all, which may help the OP an anyone else following the thread make an informed choice. ;-)

Mike, when Brambles speaks (at least about batteries! :-)), it is best to just sit back and listen and learn. Ditto Clive, ditto Spospe. All three have extensive knowledge and experience, seemingly in slightly different applications, and all three are hugely generous with their time in trying to assist others. One never knows when one may need a bit of technical help with battery matters: I already have, and can vouch for the excellence of the advice that was given. You are in the presence of the absolute top end of applied knowledge in this field, not merely of well read amateurs.

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian (Snail)

 

ATLASBX is a Korean company specialising in battery manufacture.

 

Its products are marketed under a number of brand-names that include "ALPHALINE" and "E-NEX". On a like-for-like basis ALPHALINE and E-NEX batteries are identical in technical specification - it's just the stick-on label that differs.

 

If you GOOGLE on "xdc atlasbx" (omitting the quotes) you'll retrieve an entry headed

 

[PDF] Batteries for Marine & RV - ATLASBX

 

This will allow you to download the E-NEX brochure that includes descriptions of the XDC, DC and XV Series. As Brambles says, the XDC Series is advertised as "Deep Cycle & Starting", while the DC Series is advertised as "Dual Purpose (Starting and Cycling)". Whatever batterymegastore say, the DC27 is a clearly a dual-purpose battery.

 

As I can't find any indication on-line that the XDC Series is marketed in the UK, you may have to forget that option.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Reply to BK

 

That may very well be the case, but I and many others especially when new to these forums see the ridiculous "expert" thingy by someone's ID and as I did in my "early" days make the wrong assumption. Not all of us seemingly spend most of their lives on here to know the difference, or have an intimate knowledge of various posters expertise, that's all I was trying to establish. I'll guarantee no one until now knows that I'm an expert in catching Moles.

[Brian Kirby]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-17 7:09 PM

 

Reply to BK

 

That may very well be the case, but I and many others especially when new to these forums see the ridiculous "expert" thingy by someone's ID and as I did in my "early" days make the wrong assumption. Not all of us seemingly spend most of their lives on here to know the difference, or have an intimate knowledge of various posters expertise, that's all I was trying to establish. I'll guarantee no one until now knows that I'm an expert in catching Moles.

Ah, but one should not judge the book by its cover. :-)

[Brambles]

Brian and Derek, what kind comments about myself, Motts and Spose. You are indeed correct in we have experience within different areas. I think the forums give the opportunity to have shared experience from all which makes it much more beneficial.

 

Snail/Brain

snail - 2012-01-17 5:42 PM

 

Hi Again Brambles,

 

I have asked about the different types you suggested (DC or XDC) deep cycle or combined

 

I have had a return e-mail from battery megastore, stating that the DC27, is a genuine deep cycle only 105 amp battery?

 

So i suppose should buy them..........

 

Thanks Brian

 

Been having a think about this. I do not know if they are the true deep discharge or the dual batteries.

 

However take a look at the LL26MF branded lucas. http://www.tayna.co.uk/Lucas-LL26MF-Leisure-Battery-P7829.html

 

From the manbat (importer and brand owner) site it is clear what is the better deep discharge battery.

http://www.manbat.co.uk/cm/files/brochures/lucas_catalogue.pdf and go to page 66. (hope you have a good computer and internet connection for these large pdf files.

 

I would have much more confidence in the Lucas than the Alphaline DC27 from Megastore as I do not wholey trust their specs. basically I think it is comfusing and on one hand I think they are probably the XDC but I would want that backed up, and on the other hand I am thinking they are confused on what they are selling - I just do not know. Immaterial I would have thought now as Tayna works out cheaper for two Lucas batteries and you can always phone them and ask for say 10% to 15% off because you are buying two batteries.

 

There is also a Numax LC26MF which is cheaper still but is a ligher duty equivalent being only 21.5 Kg and not 24kg. It will probbaly just have smaller less tall plates or thinner plates to reduce the cost a bit as a more budget battery.

 

You can also contact Manbat direct for info or to purchase as they have agents around the country and may be one near you.

 

Jon.

[Derek Uzzell]

1footinthegrave - 2012-01-17 7:09 PM

 

Reply to BK

 

That may very well be the case, but I and many others especially when new to these forums see the ridiculous "expert" thingy by someone's ID and as I did in my "early" days make the wrong assumption. Not all of us seemingly spend most of their lives on here to know the difference, or have an intimate knowledge of various posters expertise, that's all I was trying to establish. I'll guarantee no one until now knows that I'm an expert in catching Moles.

 

This is the relevant entry in the forum FAQ section:

 

"Q: What are the titles listed below someone's name, and what criteria are needed to meet each title?

 

A: Forum users are 'awarded' different titles depending on:

 

a) their number of posts

b) the time passed since they joined.

 

Below, you'll find a list of all the titles available to forum-goers, followed by the amount of posts/days since joining needed to attain each title.

 

New User - 0/0

Visitor - 75/60

Regular Visitor - 150/70

Contributor - 300/80

Frequent Contributor - 400/100

Permanent Fixture - 500/120

Stalwart - 600/140

Expert - 1200/240

 

Some users (members of the administrative/support staff) have titles that aren't found on the list; these are assigned only to forum staff."

 

I think it's a daft idea too and (if I had my way) I'd get shot of the 'title' feature together with emoticons and avatars (and the Hints & Tips forum). But there you go...

 

Instead, perhaps we could have regular votes on suitable positive 'titles' for forum members. Then only members who've been generally accepted to have earned the right to be considered an 'expert' in a particular field would be so titled. We could also have votes on negative titles - for example "disruptive", "nuisance", "argumentative", "sarcastic", etc. That might be fun. ;-) ;-)

[Brambles]

Gosh! now I understand why so many other posters complain when a thread goes off topic. Thought we were trying to dicuss Snail's batteries. Seems I am happy for a topic to go off course if related but not if on a differemnt matter when mid topic comverstion flow. Oh dear, I have joined th e Grumpy old men group!!! Arrrrrrgh. ( Calm down Brambles, its only a forum! - Ed).

[Brambles]

Ok, on the subject of titles, maybe it would be better of there was a more fun approach and really silly titles were used. Maybe something like,

 

Tent peg

Guy rope

Flysheet

camp stove

Barbeque

wheel chock

wheel ramp

Awning.

 

Sorry, not very good, but trying to give an idea of what I mean. Starting off with a basic item and moving up to more prestigious items.

 

edit

On the other hand maybe "expert" should just be changed to something else.

[malc d]

Titles

 

Looking at Dereks' list I would suggest that it should just stop at " Permanent Fixture "

 

As for " generally accepting " who is an expert - ?

 

There is such a diverse group of opinions on this forum that it seems unlikely to me than anything is likely to be generally accepted.

 

(Could be voted for of course - but have you ever noticed how few people take part in polls ?)

 

 

(lol)

 

 

[snail]

Hi Guys, getting there slowly, two horse race?

 

option 1 buy alphaline dc27 from megastore if i believe thier e-mail, claiming deep cycle only?may pop up there as only 15 miles away, suss them face to face, and go with gut feeling

 

option 2 buy lucas ll26mf from tanya, which seem to be deep cycle, as sure as you can be?

 

there is not much difference in price between them, not that it is important to me

 

however there maybe option 3, i have found Groves batteries in Cheltenham who make batteries, i have e-mailed them all my requirements, and am waiting an answer

 

thanks Brian

[Derek Uzzell]

snail - 2012-01-18 12:49 PM

 

Hi Guys, getting there slowly, two horse race?

 

option 1 buy alphaline dc27 from megastore if i believe thier e-mail, claiming deep cycle only?may pop up there as only 15 miles away, suss them face to face, and go with gut feeling

 

option 2 buy lucas ll26mf from tanya, which seem to be deep cycle, as sure as you can be?

 

there is not much difference in price between them, not that it is important to me

 

however there maybe option 3, i have found Groves batteries in Cheltenham who make batteries, i have e-mailed them all my requirements, and am waiting an answer

 

thanks Brian

 

Joking aside, the critical (and obvious) thing is that, whatever battery you might consider purchasing, it can actually be fitted in the space available. So, if you've got a strict 302mm limit, you better be damn sure before committing to a 302mm-long battery that it will actually go in. (You will also need to be careful about the other dimensions too, particularly the height.)

 

You'll then need to decide between battery types, followed by how much you are prepared to pay. As your batteries will be hidden under the cab seats and won't be checked/maintained after installation, you'd be foolish to choose other than a fully-sealed, genuinely maintenance-free type of battery. However, these come in various flavours, with prices ranging from the £80-£90 for the ones you've been considering to perhaps £300 for a state-of-the-art 100Ah AGM or gel battery.

 

A July 2010 MMM-magazine report revealed that some batteries marketed as 'deep cycle' type, when an autopsy was performed on them, turned out to be essentially re-badged starter batteries as far as their technical specification was concerned. Also that advertised Ah capacity was often widely over-optimistic. Banner's "Energy Bull" and "Platinum" leisure batteries came out very well in the tests, but I think only 80Ah/85Ah versions from each manufacturer would fit beneath your Hymer's seats.

 

Besides Groves Batteries, you might try contacting PureDrive Batteries

 

http://www.puredrivebatteries.co.uk/

 

based at Toddington, north of Winchcombe, as they offer Numax batteries at (if their website info is correct) very competitive prices.

 

 

[snail]

Thankyou to everyone who has taken the time to help me make my decisions on new batteries, especially Brambles

 

Will be going to see Megastore next week for a face to face and try to make up my mind, hopefully i can speak to someone, now having much more knowledge on the subject thanks to you

 

Still have had no response from Groves 48hrs now so that don't sit well with me

 

thanks again for your input

 

regards Brian

[Derek Uzzell]

snail - 2012-01-19 9:08 AM

 

...Still have had no response from Groves 48hrs now so that don't sit well with me..

 

 

If you've asked Groves Batteries an e-mail question that requires a lot of detailed feedback, then you shouldn't be too surprised not to get a quick reply. E-mail can go missing in transit and may also end up in trash/spam files. It's even possible that the company currently has a computer or staffing problem. Try phoning them on 01242 514 940 - if nothing else you could give them a tongue-lashing about your e-mail.

[smifee]

Hi Snail

 

I have a 2005 Hymer. Had the seats replaced with the seats you have. Like you I hardly ever use sites.

 

My solution was to remove the leisure battery and disconnect the mains supply to the electroblok. 4 x 125Ah Elecsol batteries were fitted in the 'garage' along with an invertor.

 

The batteries are charged by 2 x 75W solar panels, a Sterling B2B charger and a multi stage mains charger. All these charge at a high voltage. This leads to s lot of gassing but I regularly check & top up. The batteries are coming up to 7 years old now and still going strong. I have used over 10 litres of top up in that time!

 

I chose Elecsol because the company, Van Bitz, rewiring my van recommended them saying they had replaced one under the 5 year guarantee with no problem.

 

Despite Brambles telling us they are nothing special they have performed very well for longer than other makes according to many MHers I have discussed this with. I think he may be right and it's just the charging regime that has enabled them to perform so well.

 

My reason for thinking so is that a mate copied my system in his Hymer a Class using the cheapest batteries he could find. £40 compared to £100. I thought I had 'won' when he bought a replacement but on fitting it he found a partly broken wire to that battery. Unfortunately we can't complete the comparison as his van caught fire whilst being driven and all he was left with was mostly chassis & engine.

 

 

 

[Brambles]

Smifee, what type of ventilation are you using for your batteries? Have you got central Kamina venting (single vent on end of battery), or vented caps? I just ask to make sure you have vented properly as you have high levels hydrogen release when fully charging.

[smifee]

Hi brambles

 

The caps are vented. The batteries are in a large 2 door 'garage'.

 

I don't use the mains charger much. In the winter when the van is not used as much it is parked under a street light so the solar panels are giving a small charge all the time.

[Brambles]

I would not have thought street lamps would have produced enough volts to even start charging, but hey ho, you never know as some street lights can be pretty bright.

 

As to venting, I think you should give serious consideration to fitting venting caps with tubes to collect gases and vent outside the van. One battery would be hard pushed to give a 4% hydrogen mix in garage, but four batteries ....easy. Hope your garage is well ventilated.

[Autocruising]

I have just purchased a new 110 amp leisure Battery 2 year warranty £76 including VAT. :-D

[David B]

I recently had to buy a new leisure battery while in France. [see link below for more info.] The battery is a sealed no maintenance one with no visable outlet for a venting tube (as was fitted to the original Fiamm battery and vented through the floor of my 2005 A/S Nuevo). As I understand it, the need to vent is if inflammable/explosive hydrogen is generated by over-charging or a failed cell.

 

I have seen some comments here re venting, but no definitive advice.

 

Can I assume that a sealed no maintenance battery does not need external venting, even when fitted inside the motorhome under the driver's seat? Perhaps an expert could help?

 

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=26670&posts=12

[Brambles]

All rechargeable batteries should be placed in a well ventilated area. Now whilst you can get away with a battery with vent tubes in an enclosed area, e.g. locker, it should still have some ventialtion into the locker.

 

You can get away with a sealed battery under the seat as it is classified as a ventilated area. However you can not get away with a sealed battery with out vent tubes in an enclosed locker although some people do site in enclosed spaces, they should not. A ventilated area is always required because under fault conditons or as the battery ages then gassing can occur and be explosive. Just be aware as your battrey ages or under fault conditions you could get a built up of gasses.

 

As I have mentioned and without endorsing it or otherwise, many people have sealed batteries under their seats, what is a definite no no is a sealed with out vent tubes in a closed locker without adequate ventuialtion ports similar to your gas locker.

[Derek Uzzell]

David B - 2012-04-19 12:07 PM

 

I recently had to buy a new leisure battery while in France. [see link below for more info.] The battery is a sealed no maintenance one with no visable outlet for a venting tube (as was fitted to the original Fiamm battery and vented through the floor of my 2005 A/S Nuevo). As I understand it, the need to vent is if inflammable/explosive hydrogen is generated by over-charging or a failed cell.

 

I have seen some comments here re venting, but no definitive advice.

 

Can I assume that a sealed no maintenance battery does not need external venting, even when fitted inside the motorhome under the driver's seat? Perhaps an expert could help?

 

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=26670&posts=12

 

Logically, if a battery has no means of attaching a vent-tube to it, then it cannot be vented via a vent-tube.

 

Many batteries fall into the 'maintenance-free' category, where the design of the battery prohibits its electrolyte being topped up, but not all of them are sealed. Where there is the provision to attach a vent-tube (and particularly when the battery is mounted within a motorhome's living space), then a vent-tube should be used to divert beneath the vehicle gas/electrolyte that might be expelled from the battery in the scenarios you've mentioned above.

 

I also had to replace a battery when in France recently. In my case the failed Exide (leisure) battery was gel-type and was replaced by a Banner AGM-type. Both the Exide and Banner batteries are maintenance-free and sealed, and neither can be fitted with (or require) a vent-tube.

 

My motorhome's current Motorcraft starter-battery is not maintenance-free and has a vent-tube attached to it. If I replaced it with a maintenance-free battery that could be vented, then I'd re-attach the vent-tube to the new battery. Conversely, if I replaced the Motorcraft battery with a maintenance-free sealed battery (like my old Exide or new Banner battery), then I would not need (and could not) re-attach the vent-tube.

 

Your postings in the earlier thread indicated that you had purchased a battery from a French yacht chandlers, but you provided no identifying details of the battery you bought. As you say that it's sealed (and plainly dimensionally small), it's possible that it's AGM-type. No way of knowing though without more information from you. AGM batteries tend to be significantly more expensive than 'conventional' ones, so the price you paid may be a give-away. And, as the optimum charging regimen may be different for an AGM battery, the fact that a battery is AGM-type should be somewhere on the labelling.

 

 

 

 

[David B]

Thanks to Brambles and Derek for their informative replies.

 

If it helps the following is on the battery, but I tried unsuccessfully to Goggle it's details.

 

Tech Power

Marine/Plaisance

Calcium (and in French)

Magic Eye (actually in French oeil magic)

T15M

Eurocod 426

20h 60Ah

Puissance 480A (translates as power)

(norme EN)

 

It cost 99 Euros, though I had a sneaky feeling that as they had to phone someone to get the price they may have taken advantage of a Brit making a distress purchase.