lefthooker Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 hi, can anyone please advise me as to how i go about a possible repair to my Fiat Granduca 235P floor. It is the low profile model from 2002. the floor by the entrance has gradually over 18 months or so gone quite springy. The floor is covered in fitted vinyl. Any suggestions would be much appreciated, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 if you have watched it deteriorate for past 18 months, I am wondering why yo have ignored it and have you the skills to fix it yourself? as you could have done it earlier as damp/moisture has a tendency to spread. This could now be a big job but until you take up vinyl and have a good poke around you wont know.... have a look from underneath and see if it is ply or a sandwich construction. poke around with a screwdriver and see how far it has spread, Damp could be from around door, who knows! if it has now spread under furniture that will need removing first.. just cut out and replace like for like, depending on what floor structure is. You will have to replace vinyl which may be a good thing as latest wood style ones much nicer.... edit: Just noticed its your first post! welcome! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefthooker Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 hi and thanks for your speedy help! i should have said that i've checked with a damp meter, and its dry. it just seems that the floor is giving way. it is ply underneath and totally solid. it seems like two pieces of ply butted together on top, and one has given way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddies104 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hi and Welcome Judge just about said it all, apart from making sure you rectify what caused it in the first place or you could be wasting a lot of time only to do it again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Someone I know owns one of them and I can only describe it as being a sponge on wheels. What I fail to understand is he went along to look at it before he bought it with a damp meter. When I asked him why he bought it he said it was because of the price but if you see it now with the rear end of the body removed to eradicate the damp anyone in their right mind wouldn't have touched it with a barge pole. The front half has yet to be tackled, I've seen the luton area and it's a complete mess and the floor is going to need major work as well. To see it as it was it looked very smart from the outside. I think all dealers should be compelled to issue a damp certificate at the time a deal is being processed along with a written guarantee that the motorhome is free from any damp or that damp rectification work has been carried out previously. The older the coachbuilt then the more caution should be taken when checking the body work out. I'd like to add that the body repairers are doing a first class job to make the motorhome better than it was but you have to ask yourself how long it would be before it needed further attention..How often do you see buyers on their backs looking underneath motorhomes for dampness, you see plenty opening and closing cupboard doors to see if they fit properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 lefthooker - 2012-03-12 11:15 AM hi and thanks for your speedy help! i should have said that i've checked with a damp meter, and its dry. it just seems that the floor is giving way. it is ply underneath and totally solid. it seems like two pieces of ply butted together on top, and one has given way? just get someone to stand on top and move about and have a look from underneath. If solid underneath, is there a kitchen unit to side of entrance? if there is have a look at floor in there and have a dig around. If sure no damp coming through door and down into floor. maybe the floor just needs supporting form underneath a quote from a professional repairer will cost you nothing, and they know what they are looking at...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 ........If it is dry, it is quite possible that you are suffering from delamination. The floor is normally constructed as a sandwich, with a layer of styrofoam or other insulation between two outer layers of ply. It is possible for the adhesive between the layers to break down, and this sometimes results in an amount of "give" or springiness in the area affected. This can often be cured by injecting special adhesives/hardener into the affected area. Whilst the materials for this can be bought for DIY, my own preference would be to have the problem fully diagnosed and fixed by a specialist. See the link for a description: http://www.tourer-techs.co.uk/#/floor-delamination/4535051929 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefthooker Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Thanks Robinhood. That is exactly it! I opened up the vinyl floor and yes delamination. Thanks also for the web link, I have been in touch with Tourer Techs and its now booked in for repair in a couple of weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 .....well, I posted the link simply to give background, not as a recommendation. (I know nothing about the firm; the website was simply one that gave a good brief description and details of the potential resolution). There are other people around who would attempt a fix. Hope your diagnosis is correct, and you get a decent job done. ;-) Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I would still get the FREE estimate from proper repairer first, as they should have a proper meter not DIY job. if it is just delamination result!lol :-D BUT if water ingress has caused it you are simply wasting money...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Hi lefthooker, as Robinhood suggests, i had the chemical treatment done years ago on caravans, with very good results so hope it works for you Snail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefthooker Posted April 6, 2012 Author Share Posted April 6, 2012 Hey, have had the delamination repaired by Tourer Techs. They did a fantastic job and the floor feels like new. I am well chuffed! Thanks again to all who replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 ......looks like a result! :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyclaire Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Thinking of buying our first motorhome around 25k-30k but do not understand why manufacturers are still using laminated wood for the floors of even new vehicles. Considering how many owners have suffered problems with delamination due to water ingress over the years, there must be a more suitable material. I have worked with wood for over 20 years and know wood and water are not a good combination, (some boat builders may disagree). Would you buy a 30k car with a wood floor? If any manufacturers would like to respond i would be grateful as am going off the idea of buying an expensive vehicle that I fear will at some point require major work to put right. Manufacturers sell a 'dream' but at what cost? Maybe the kitchen extension instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolly1965 Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 tonyclaire - 2012-04-22 12:47 AM Would you buy a 30k car with a wood floor? Never heard of Morgans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Nothing intrinsically wrong with the materials, the issue is mainly one of shoddy build quality. It's absolutely rife within the caravan / motorhome industry and we, as consumers, are often expected to pay through the nose for tat. You will often read horror stories of people buying expensive 'vans that have fault lists as log as your arm. Weirdly, it doesn't seem to stop buyers from doing it all over again with the same manufacturer! I guess as long as people buy them, they'll keep churning them out. It's amazing how alluring swishy graphics, shiny wheels, and a free reversing camera seem to be, never mind that you can shove a fist through the gap in the door. There are some well made 'vans out there but you need to have your eye in. Do not rely on magazine articles. They are often more abut protecting advertising revenue and ensuring cosy industry ties rather than reviews that are in any way useful to the consumer. Motorhoming is fantastic, a lot of motorhomes aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 The main areas where the floor goes spongy tends to be the kitchen and entrance areas because these areas get the most use. It is not necessary for a floor to be wet for it to delaminate and go spongy. Heavy traffic can cause the problem. There is a repair kit available for DIY consisting of a chemical resin and hardener which has to be injected through holes drilled through the top layer of the floor skin (usually ply) The resin will fill the cavity between the ply floor and the styrofoam substrate and bond the two together again. I do not know what your DIY skills are so professional advice may be your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyclaire Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Do not intend to spend 6 months of the year in the south of spain living in a morgan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Provided wood (good strength to weight ratio and insulation properties) is appropriately used and suitably treated or protected from the elements it can be extremely suitable for the floor of a motorhome. Sheet steel is the most commonly used material for vehicles but its life if left unprotected from moisture can be very short indeed. Motorcaravans are a compromise with weight reduction a major factor. Delamination occurs due either to poor bonding between the top sheet and intermediate layer or deformation of the top sheet due to foot traffic loading that compacts the intermediate layer. The deformation of the top sheet can be avoided by using a thicker ply but it weighs more and payload is lost and cost goes up. Probably the best way of avoiding delamination is to send everyone using the van to Weighidiotchers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I thought the weight idiot was my typo and edited it one but clearly it infringes copyright or something so now instead of a free mention its worth a giggle. Ps Other weight loss services are available bleep bleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 It's an appropriate auto-correction though. Never did understand why people pay others considerable sums of money to be told stuffing pies in your face is not helpful. Suitably placed crossbearers in places with heavy footfall is another (lightweight) solution to stop delamination rather than an increase in ply thickness but I don't know if any manufacurers bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I only wish de-lamination was due to footfall. Having injected resin into two area in my MH the de-lamination was due to water penetration as a result of poor design and build. Hopefully have resolved issue as I have gone round all external joint with sikaflex and am also going to put a covering of white tape on these joints. Dreadful that we have to repair manufacturers poor build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Collings Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I have seen delamination when there has been no sign of water ingress but undoubtedly anything that degrades the performance of the laminated baseboard would make matters worse. Once moisture content of wood goes above a certain figure it strength drops significantly and lowers it ability to deal with footfall loading. By the time the damage becomes apparent rot may have taken hold although it may not have actually caused the breakdown It reminds me of theold saying about cob walls( rammed earth and chopped straw) Given a good hat and good boots it will last for centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 sshortcircuit - 2012-04-23 9:31 AMI only wish de-lamination was due to footfall. Having injected resin into two area in my MH the de-lamination was due to water penetration as a result of poor design and build. Hopefully have resolved issue as I have gone round all external joint with sikaflex and am also going to put a covering of white tape on these joints. Dreadful that we have to repair manufacturers poor build. In most cases it's due to one or the other, or most commonly a combination. Agreed completely that it's a poor do when something so fundamentally structural fails because of sloppy design / build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Our floor delaminated in our 06 reg van, cost over £700.00 to have it fixed at Auto sleeper, nothing but problems with this van, bought auto sleepers for the last 4 vans, will be looking at different makes next time. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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