Lightweight gas bottles

[bjphillips]

I saw a write-up on the new BP none metallic gas bottles recently but the artical didn't give very much information such as the size & weight of them.I did email BP for this info but have yet to get a reply. I do have at the moment 2 x13 kl propane bottles & wondered if these are exchangeable or returnable at all. It would be nice to offload some weight, has anyone got these yet ? *-)

[Dave Newell]

I was recently offered one of these containers for review but declined as it's not refillable but has to be exchanged as per calor cylinders albeit at BP stations. I understand that they aren't universally stocked by BP fuel stations as yet either. The only benefit is weight saving and you can apparently see how much gas is left as it's a liquid in the cylinder. Even if you save 10 Kilos per cylinder (which I very much doubt) for two cylinders you could save twenty kilos. If you are so close to your weight limit that twenty kilos is vitally important then I respectfully suggest you need to either change your 'van or uprate your current one. sorry to sound so negative but I don't quite see the benefits of these cylinders. D.

[Clive]

The thought of how a composite tank would fare in a crash, especially if a fire took hold has kept me to prefer steel. Also like Dave whatever tank it was would need to be re-fillable at Autogas stations. When will someone market an adapter in the UK so that a normal Propane cylinder can be filled at an Autogas station, after all Calor can fill them!! And so do many gas stations in Portugal and other countries!.

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]bjphillips - 2006-05-28 9:20 PM I saw a write-up on the new BP none metallic gas bottles recently but the artical didn't give very much information such as the size & weight of them.I did email BP for this info but have yet to get a reply. I do have at the moment 2 x13 kl propane bottles & wondered if these are exchangeable or returnable at all. It would be nice to offload some weight, has anyone got these yet ? *-)[/QUOTE] I agree with Clive & Dave after seeing the results of high speed multiple pile ups on the motorways I'm sticking to steel bottles. I've had a MTH Autogas 13 kg refillable bottle with an external filling point for almost three years. It's the greatest thing since sliced bread (well nearly). It has a very accurate gauge so the worry about running out of gas and changing bottles is long past. LPG/Autogas is readily available in most of Europe and beyond, Spain being the exception, that's not a problem for us as we avoid the place these days. At present you have two 13kg bottles, get one refillable and you are saving on weight and you have the convinience of the refillable. The initial outlay is quite steep but if like us you use your van regular it's well worth the outlay, we think so anyway. If you do go down the refillable road make sure you buy a bottle with the 80% stop. Safe travelling Don

[Derek Uzzell]

I expect these data are on BP's website (www.bpgaslight.co.uk), but here goes anyway... BPGaslight containers carry propane only and are available in 2 sizes: 5kg (10 litres) capacity Weight of empty bottle - 4.5kg Height - 393mm Diameter - 305mm 10kg (20 litres) capacity Weight of empty bottle - 6.7kg Height - 587mm Diameter - 305mm The bottle connection is a 27mm clip-on type. These containers have been mentioned previously on the forum and Bill Ord (a regular contributor) told me he would look out for them in France where they were (supposedly) becoming available. Bill recently returned from there saying there had been no sign of the BPGaslight bottles, but adding that Butagaz were now marketing a larger variant of Le Cube with a 'visible gas level' panel in the container's side. Regarding the BP lightweight bottle, it's easiest for me to quote part of my reply to Bill... "Coincidentally, there is a piece about them in the June CC magazine I received yesterday. This says "... you can already exchange your BP Gaslight cylinder in Austria, Benelux, Denmark and Poland, with Germany rolling out right now and France and Spain anticipated soon". The article also states that all major UK caravan manufacturers will be sizing the gas-lockers on 2007 season models to accept the BP plastic bottles, but I notice motorcaravans aren't mentioned! These bottles are being marketed for their lightness, nice-to-handle-ness, safety (won't explode in a fire), convenience (the clip-on connector) and the ability to see the amount of gas remaining in them "at a glance". The last claim is a fallacy - it's wishful thinking to expect that, if you put transparent liquid propane into a translucent woven GRP container, it will be easy to spot the gas-level. I've got a refillable plastic gas-bottle with this type of construction and, in daylight with the bottle in the motorhome's gas-locker, it's virtually impossible to gauge how much gas remains. I normally wait until dark then shine a strong torch through the bottle's side when the level can be identified. (I've also a sneaking suspicion that the GRP container will darken over time and, if that happens, it will make matters worse.) When we were in France in March I noticed slightly smaller than normal (around 10kg I think) steel gas-bottles being marketed. Actigaz was one, a yellow bottle with a 1 euro deposit and cheap refill costs, and there was another 'make' with a white bottle, similar purchase conditions and (I'm fairly sure) level gauges on the bottles (like Calor's Patio Gas containers). Even though there may be real benefits for plastic bottles and it's usual in France for gas-bottle deposits to be fully refundable, I can see a lot of resistance by French punters to pay the 45 euros deposit you mentioned if they can get a similarly sized steel bottle for almost nothing. The priority for motorcaravanners abroad is of course widespread availability and that involves developing a large distribution network. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see whether BPGasLight turns out to be the campers' Holy Grail or just another limited take-up product." Within the UK, as well as from BP gas stockists, BPGaslight bottles will be marketed via the Truma agency network. Clive: I note your wariness of composite bottles' resistance to fire. The logic is that the composite bottle will melt, releasing the LPG gas inside as it does so, rather than explode like a steel bottle. I once challenged MTH Autogas about this 'safety feature' in respect of their composite bottles and was asked whether I would prefer to be near a gas fire or a bomb. I don't know whether steel bottles will tolerate fire beyond the point when a composite bottle begins to melt and I'm certainly not going to experiment. I'm reminded of an anecdote about someone being interviewed for the job of driving a LPG tanker-vehicle who, when asked what steps he would take if the tanker went on fire, replied "Long and very rapid ones!" By the way, there is a commercially available adapter that would permit user-refilling of exchangeable propane bottles having the UK-norm LH-threaded female connection. The adapter isn't intended to do this, but it has the appropriate connections. It cost £35 when I last checked. Obviously to user-refill any exchange-only gas container (however one acquires it) will be in breach of the legal constraints relating to that container. With no way of easily confirming how much LPG went in (you'd have to weigh the bottle before and after the refilling process to be sure) and, if you stuck with the same bottle indefinitely, no guarantee of the container's long-term structural integrity, there are clear risks in what you are suggesting. Besides which, this practice would further reinforce the resistance of UK autogas-selling service-stations who are already cagey about the refilling of specially designed LPG cylinders.

[Clive]

Hi Derek, I expect in the final scenario that MTH are correct. The composite bottle will fail very early and let the liquid propane out well before the steel bottle has exploded. But in a collision the composite bottle is far less tolerant to a lump of twisted metal hitting it. The Composite will puncture. The steel will stand quite a knock before it bends and is much more resistant to puncturing. If there is a fire then I assume the steel bottle will withstand the heat for longer than the composite and give me time to get away before the bottle goes BANG!. It all depends how close you stand to watch the outcome! I note that no one is offering bulk tanks in a composite material, only steel. I don,t want to be the guinea pig!

[Clive]

Again Derek, You are of course correct about the legality and safety issues with long term re-filling of "exchange" bottles. But re-filling to 80% is quite easy to achieve without any weighing. As we all run our bottles until they are empty and knowing the density of propane is as near a damn it 0.5 so for a 6 KG bottle put in 12 litres. The pump tells you how much is going in, just release the button! Surely this is how Calor do it? Every bottle has a date stamped into it so one can exchange it for a new one when the time is right!!. No, I am not advocating one does this but its not that difficult to work it out if one has a thinking head, the adapter and a short hose to an external filling point to suit the pumps is all you need. BUT no safety devices are built in. It relies totally on the care and skill of the operator. I put 21 litres into my bulk tank (Stako from MTH) yesterday to top it up in preparation for our imenent French tour. I release the button on the pump after the pump has automatically cut off at 80%. Take care C.

[bjphillips]

Thanks for the mass of information from all in response to my query about the new lightweight gas bottles from BP. Ive taken it all in and & will think carefully before I decide to change or not.

[fjmike]

What I would like to know please , is the connector for the BP bottle the same as LE Cube or am I hoping too much

[Derek Uzzell]

As I'm sure you are aware a Le Cube bottle (and, presumably, its new Butagaz big brother "Visio" container) employs a 27mm diameter connection. According to Gaslow's leaflet, the Le Cube connection is the same as that used on Calor's Patio Gas and BBQ Gas cylinders and on some Portuguese bottles. As the BPGaslight product is in direct UK competition with Calor's Patio and BBQ bottles I think we may happily assume that the 27mm connections are all identical. However, if one has a motorhome with a gas-system adapted to accept BPGaslight bottles, I believe there may be a problem using Le Cube. This has nothing to do with connection compatibility, just that the unique shape of Le Cube's upper body means that the connection is embedded in a sort of 'well'. Consequently, any clip-on adapter (or regulator) used with Le Cube has to have been designed to reach down into that well so that the gas-feed hose can emerge above the top of the bottle. Calor's Patio and BBQ bottles have a roughly similar shape to the French Twiny/Elfi/Malice containers with cutaways between the handles that permit the hose from the adapter (or regulator) to come out directly sideways from the bottle-connection. A BPGaslight has its own shape, but the upper part also contains a cutaway allowing the hose to emerge laterally from the bottle-connection. Basically, what I'm saying is that, if you were currently using Le Cube(propane) then, connection-wise, you should be able to switch to a BPGaslight bottle immediately, but, if you were using BPGaslight, you will probably need to obtain a different adapter/regulator to allow you to use the Le Cube bottle instead. Also don't overlook size differences - BPGaslight containers are 305mm in diameter, whereas Le Cube is 280mm wide (and 360mm tall). BPGaslight's extra 25mm width may be critical for UK-built motorhomes with 'Calor 7kg/6kg' gas lockers into which Le Cube is a possible but very tight fit.

[fjmike]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Derek. as I already have a LE Cube and regulator I think I will go and have a measure of my gas locker to see if I can fit it and the BP bottle in as this will save a lot of hassle when changing over. I tend to run mostly on Le Cube as it works out cheaper