Guest JudgeMental Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 we have been driving down to Alicante and only arrived yesterday to glorious weather! 22 deg and 26 tomorrow...a long drive but weather makes it worthwhile We went for the Adria as Belgium Hymer dealer did not take PX. also the Adria has the edge we think. The weight is fine i have weighed mine now 3 times fully loaded (you could not carry more stuff) and both axles and overall weight all well within 3300kg. German dealer said pointless getting 3500kg and he was correct. and whats the point as front axle limits everything.... James has covered main points, if I was buying again I would go for the 2.5 auto as the 6 speed box drives me nuts With The hymer you have to add a lot of extras to standard spec to match Adria, and what you cant add is a bigger gas locker and better table. Prices are then more or less identical. the beds in Adria are superb, kitchen still small but better, table MUCH better. where are you getting Hymer from, new or used, if used you will be better of with a recent Adria, or Globecar/Possl another possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendolyn Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-04-08 7:06 PM we have been driving down to Alicante and only arrived yesterday to glorious weather! 22 deg and 26 tomorrow...a long drive but weather makes it worthwhile We went for the Adria as Belgium Hymer dealer did not take PX. also the Adria has the edge we think. The weight is fine i have weighed mine now 3 times fully loaded (you could not carry more stuff) and both axles and overall weight all well within 3300kg. German dealer said pointless getting 3500kg and he was correct. and whats the point as front axle limits everything.... James has covered main points, if I was buying again I would go for the 2.5 auto as the 6 speed box drives me nuts With The hymer you have to add a lot of extras to standard spec to match Adria, and what you cant add is a bigger gas locker and better table. Prices are then more or less identical. the beds in Adria are superb, kitchen still small but better, table MUCH better. where are you getting Hymer from, new or used, if used you will be better of with a recent Adria, or Globecar/Possl another possibility Ah.. people were wondering where you were! As I afterwards reported – and the post has probably got a bit lost - we bought neither the Hymer Car [didn’t like it] or the Adria Twin – Mr DIY had wreaked havoc in it!! From Swindon, drove on to Bournemouth to view another Twin…. Same story. I think Mr DIY had used one panel for darts practice. That was way back last… Wednesday I think??? Tomorrow, we are off to Taunton to view yet another Twin, used.. 2008 model.... We think that a Twin is what we have decided is “the one” for us. Another long day’s trek from West Wales… hope it is worth it!!! Have fun there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 sorry but i just scanned through thread without reading it properly :-S I would not touch earlier vans, as layout and weight compromised and small fridges in most, I bet for the same money you could buy a recent LHD van. what is your budget? quick shower and out for Tapas! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendolyn Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-04-08 7:33 PM sorry but i just scanned through thread without reading it properly :-S I would not touch earlier vans, as layout and weight compromised and small fridges in most, I bet for the same money you could buy a recent LHD van. what is your budget? quick shower and out for Tapas! :-D Budget? Expanding by the day! Is 2008 "earlier"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Gwen you can download catalogues for previous years on the French site, but they are in French of course and the detailed spec may vary as I think that lots of things are not included in the standard UK price. I looked at 2007/2008 and the fridge seems to be 70 litres and the wood is lighter than now but layout seems the same. http://www.adria-france.com/consulter-le-catalogue/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendolyn Posted April 8, 2012 Author Share Posted April 8, 2012 Cheers James. Just in time - I'll download them before we set off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 would not touch a 2007-2009 fiat chassis.....remember the JUDDER? and vans were not as well specified either. just had 3 course meal, onion soup, hake and desert. seafood starter, roast lamp and desert, bottle of wine bread and dips and taxes for 19 euro I think i may stay here....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendolyn Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-04-08 10:04 PM would not touch a 2007-2009 fiat chassis.....remember the JUDDER? and vans were not as well specified either. Warning heeded! I have done a search on the Forum - there is tons of stuff about it isn't there!!! So we have cancelled the trip to view - and OH is now trawling the threads.... Budget just nudged upwards again! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskers Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I don't consider there is a problem with 2007/2009 Ducatos. OK there was a judder problem but that should have been sorted. Judge is too judgemental. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-04-08 10:04 PM just had 3 course meal, onion soup, hake and desert. seafood starter, roast lamp and desert, bottle of wine bread and dips and taxes for 19 euro . Glad to see that you got "All lit up" with your 'Roast Lamp', Eddie, (Judge) -- you must have been de'light'ed! :D Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Symbol Owner - 2012-04-09 10:29 AM JudgeMental - 2012-04-08 10:04 PM just had 3 course meal, onion soup, hake and desert. seafood starter, roast lamp and desert, bottle of wine bread and dips and taxes for 19 euro . Glad to see that you got "All lit up" with your 'Roast Lamp', Eddie, (Judge) -- you must have been de'light'ed! :D Cheers, Colin. That was 2 meals for 2 :-S Also in bars decent pint of lager for 1 euro....no wonder the place is so busy. Only here for a month, most I talk to here for 3 or 4. probably a lot cheaper then living at home.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 I'm green with envy Judge, it is (as usual!) a cold & miserable bank holiday Monday back here in blighty! Sorry to go 'off topic' Gwen! (couldn't resist the idea of Eddie eating roast lamp!) I, too, am interested in your dilemma over which 'van to replace your Symbol with -- I am less interested in the fixed bed idea than you -- have seen a lovely Timberland Endeavour among our local dealer's (Webbs of warminster) recent stock -- tempting! ( and it is on a Renault base too!) 'Whiskers' has obviously been taken in by the manufacturers/dealers on the 'judder' topic -- I don't believe that they are all 'fixed' by any means -- or that present models will be acceptable until there is a gearbox re-design that produces a reverse gear that is lower than 1st. It is certainly too high at present. 'Caveat emptor' -- as usual! Hope you find your perfect replacement for the Symbol soon, Gwen,without putting too many more miles on the clock! Best wishes, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Gwendolyn, there are many content Adria Twin owners of the first X250 incarnation, and there will be far more of those vans about compared to the newer ones. Also, the Twin can be found in its earlier guise - pre X250, where the body length was a little shorter at 5.5 metres, if I remember correctly, and thus a different layout. The reverse judder for the first X250s, was a huge issue at the time, but much of it surrounded Fiat's attitude to the solution. Even now, with my own van, I acknowledge it wasn't really a proper solution, but I do so little reversing that it's never been an issue. There are, however, those who go off the beaten track, or who perhaps have to reverse into tight, uphill parking spaces, when it could be much more of a problem. The sensible advice is to ensure that any Twin of that vintage has had all the Fiat modifications done, and that you try an uphill reverse manoeuvre during a test drive, to see what it's like. What else? I wouldn't listen to anyone's opinion as to layouts, as that's a very personal thing. If you've seen Twins and you like the layout, what's more to be said? The driving experience of my own 2007 Twin is first class. There's little I'd change, and I especially like the driving seat support, where I'm able to do much longer distances without a stop than with any other vehicle I've had in the past. Importantly, secondhand value of Twins - even those from the judder years - hold up very well indeed, despite the prophets of doom suggesting at the time that buyers would avoid them like the plague, due to the inherent X250 issues. Well, that simply hasn't happened. My year of Twin which cost me £29,500 at one year old, is still selling at dealers for much the same price a further three years later. There's a difference between the 2.2 and the 2.3. It sounds nothing but the 2.3 is acknowledged as being noticeably more powerful. To be honest I never tried a 2.2, but I find the power of the 2.3 very satisfying. Also, the 2.2. has a five-speed gearbox, whereas the 2.3 is a six-speed. The latter tends to mean less gear changing, and I like getting into sixth at about 45 miles per hour, for all the usual reasons of getting into top as soon as possible and staying there for as long as possible. Build quality? The Twin is average. I recall at the time seeing the Trigano Tribute as the bottom rung on the ladder, the Twin around the middle, with the top of the market being commanded by the 40-50 grand models, such as IH. With my Twin now five years old, the furnishings have held up well, but to begin with the table behind the driver's seat was held onto the van side in a very flimsy fashion, so after yanking it off a number of times (thank you, children) I had to come up with a more solid connection, and it's been fine ever since. I'm thinking now... Oh, yes, during the winter months the plastic pipe fittings which serve the taps in the shower room would invariably come apart when the van wasn't in use. Come spring time, I'd have to get at the pipes, then simply shove the push-fit bits back together. I like the size of the fridge. Anything bigger would intrude on the space elsewhere, so once again only you own preference can dictate whether size of fridge is an issue. I like the size of cupboard which sits above the fridge, as we get loads of stuff in there. The bed I find very comfortable, but it gives my wife backache, so no real conclusion there. Some people will stick a mattress topper on whatever they have, so even if this were an issue there are solutions. Mileage? I find if I travel at more than 60mph, the increase in fuel consumption is noticeable. I get low thirties at 60 or so on a good run, and high twenties if there's mixed driving. My wife hates the handbrake, as it she can't reach low enough to knock it off first time, so there's a warning beep each time, which makes her curse. I have longer arms so I don't find it a problem. Squeaks and rattles? Yeah, plenty of those. I tend to stick bits of bog paper between window blinds and windows to shut things up, but you can't get away from some noise. Again, I suspect that higher spec models would have less noise, but it's really not an issue. I take the view I'm driving a van, not a limo. Ask away of you have any questions. Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thanks a bundle for that Shaun! And people have the nerve to complain that you don't get deceent help on this forum! This is just the kind of well constructed and thought out reply, based on solid experience, that makes this forum so helpful/useful to people like me , who, after 2 years of 'vanning still consider ourselves to be novices. Thanks again Shaun! Chers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendolyn Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thanks Shaun and Colin for those recent inputs. We may well shelve the search for a while. We do like the Symbol, very much… it’s just I have a fancy for a fixed bed!!!! And… anyway, I want to be off again asap for a couple of months – just waiting the outcome of a hospital appointment this coming week before we book a crossing…. And I will agree with the point made – there IS excellent advice to be had on this Forum. And I said so on that particular thread…. Thanks everyone…. I will report back if - and when - we make up our minds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Symbol Owner - 2012-04-09 12:54 PM 'Whiskers' has obviously been taken in by the manufacturers/dealers on the 'judder' topic -- I don't believe that they are all 'fixed' by any means -- or that present models will be acceptable until there is a gearbox re-design that produces a reverse gear that is lower than 1st. It is certainly too high at present. Colin. Presumably you are referring to the 2.3 120. If so you are quite wrong as reverse gear is now lower than first. These figures are taken from a Fiat Professional specification brochure published in February 2009. 1st 3.727 : 1 2nd 1.952 : 1 3rd 1.290 : 1 4th 0.875 : 1 5th 0.673 : 1 6th 0.585 : 1 Reverse 4.083 : 1 It is the 2.2 100 which has the higher reverse gear. First is the same but reverse is 3.154 : 1. It is a pity that misinformation is spread so easily, but that is the problem with forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homenaway Posted April 9, 2012 Share Posted April 9, 2012 Hi,That's a useful posting from Shaun and I can understand putting off the change of van. Our Twin is a 2.2 100hp five speed box and it hums along all day at 60mph giving 29mpg over a two month trip covering 4000 miles to Spain and Portugal. I do try to avoid reversing up hills and occasionally it has juddered a bit but did Fiat ever acknowledge that the 100bhp van have a problem that they rectified? It's a 2008 model though bought "new" in 2009 and we have found its features are great for two of us. We find the fixed bed is really comfortable and the driving seats are also a pleasure to sit in. We have done quite a few mods and are planning a few more but I always avoid drilling unnecessary holes and mostly it can be reverted to its original as supplied condition. We had a couple of problems fixed under warranty albeit fairly slowly and despite the original dealer going bust. We'll probably change to a twin bed layout as we get less agile but for now we're keeping our Twin! Gwen, hope you find a suitable van when you finally move on from your Symbol. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendolyn Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 Thanks James.... but I'm a bit of a ‘numpty’ about technical stuff - so passed that to OH to read. And thanks for the re-assurance Steve and Sheila. My head is spinning...... there is a lot to absorb it would seem. I fancied a Twin because a motorhomer on a Spanish site invited me to look around theirs on our recent trip. The fixed bed is the attraction I must admit - and we don't want anything much bigger than a Symbol. So when we got home late March, the hunt began…. But the road is calling us again... all being well with hospital appointment this week, we will aim to cross early May... Perhaps we will have a pause in the hunt! But, as I said upthread - we have revised the budget upwards!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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