FORD TRANSIT BATTERY

[RONROSIEM]

We have a Ford Transit based motorhome and have been having starting problems. Its still under warranty so its been in to the local Ford dealer who says that it is not a Ford battery and that its totally inadequate for the job. It appears that its been swapped at some time so I will be having words with the dealer we bought it from. However I don't anticipate much help from them so intend to simply buy a new decent battery and fit it myself.

 

My question : In these days of electronic wizardry are there any particular things I need to be aware of or is it simply out with the old and in with the new. ? (As usual the handbook is no help - tells me how to empty the ashtray but not how to change the battery).

 

Any help gratefully received.

 

 

 

 

[Robinhood]

It's generally a straightforward job, but be sure you have the radio code before you diconnect the battery (If it's an original Ford radio you will need it).

 

If your vehicle has swivel seats fitted, it also may need the swivel unit to be removed for access to the battery, and this can be awkward, as in general the swivel plate and seat need to be unbolted and moved (without a swivel, you should be able to expose and access the battery without removing the seat)

 

Also be aware that Ford fitted a more sophisticated dual-(60ah)battery system to the rear wheel drive Transit, that isolated one battery whilst not running, such that starting power was maintained if running auxiliary items wit the engine off. (one battery was essentially a dedicated starter battery, and the other a dedicated accessory battery).

 

The standard front wheel drive provision was a single (80ah) battery.

 

The attachments below detail the standard provision for a 2010 vehicle, and the method of getting at the battery if the vehicle hasn't got swivel seats.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

The largest battery dimensionally that will fit beneath the cab-seat of a current model Transit is (nominally) 354mm(Length) x 175mm(Width) x 190mm(Height). However, it’s likely that your motorhome’s starter-battery’s dimensions are (or should be!) 315mm(L) x 175mm(W) x 175mm(H). You'd need to confirm this before obtaining a replacement.

 

Ford normally factory-fits a Motorcraft-labelled silver-calcium-type battery and strongly recommends that (because of the charging system Ford uses) a silver-calcium battery is always installed as a replacement.

 

As Robin Hood advises, if your vehicle (it’s always helpful if the motorhome’s make & model details are provided when seeking technical advice) has a swivelling seat above where the starter-battery is housed, the seat + swivel will need to be removed to access the battery. It’s quite likely the swivel will be held to the seat-pedestal by Torx-headed fittings and expect them to have been done up very tightly.

 

Once access to the battery has been gained, its removal/replacement method should be self evident. I believe you may be able to find instructions on how to do it on the Ford Etis website (www.etis.ford.com), but I haven’t confirmed this.

 

The “Changing the Vehicle Battery” picture provided by Robin Hood matches the one in my 2005 Transit handbook, but my vehicle actually has a different design of battery-cover that hinges up at the back behind the seat when the latter has been slid fully forwards. There is likely to be a metal ‘hold-down’ that will need to be unbolted and taken off before the battery can be removed, but the overall task is quite straightforward provided that basic care is taken.

 

http://www.haynes.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Feature_BatteryView?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001

 

Ford Motorcraft silver-calcium batteries are far from cheap (around £180 for the Transit size when I last checked), but an equivalent size Bosch or Varta silver-calcium battery should be available for around half that:

 

http://www.varta-automotive.com/index.php?id=515&artikelNr=5852000803162

 

http://www.tayna.co.uk/Type-110-Varta-Silver-Dynamic-F18-585-200-080-P7709.html

 

If there is no doubt that the original Ford factory-fitted battery has been replaced by a lesser product prior to you accepting delivery of your motorhome (and the marking on the current battery may provide a clue to when this happened), then you should really demand that your motorhome dealer fund the cost of replacement. (You might also want to check what leisure-battery you have, just in case that one is sub-standard too.)

 

[Derek Uzzell]

A couple of follow-up thoughts...

 

I've looked back at your October 2011 inquiry about there being no spare-wheel on your latest Ford-based motorhome

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25262&posts=20

 

but I'm still unsure whether your statement "We have just bought a new van..." meant you'd purchased a brand-new motorhome, or a secondhand vehicle (but 'new' to you) replacing your previous 2005 Fiat-based motorhome.

 

I'm guessing that it's the latter and that the warranty you refer to is a dealer warranty that may well not cover a starter-battery replacement. If that's so, you might try to get in touch with the previous owner to see if he/she can explain the battery anomaly. Of course, if you bought a brand-new motorhome that is covered by Ford's 'bumper-to-bumper' warranty and the vehicle has a peculiar starter-battery, you really need to explore this with both Ford and your dealer.

 

The other thing is battery-terminal positioning. If you do decide to (or need to) obtain a replacement battery, make sure that its terminal positioning is correct for your vehicle. On some batteries the + terminal is on the right (when you are looking at the front of the battery), while on others it's on the left. My Hobby's starter-battery has the + terminal on the right and, because Ford factory-fits a starter-battery with that terminal configuration, the electrical cabling is designed to match. If the battery's + terminal were on the left, turning the battery through 180 degrees would not work in my Transit's case as the cables would then be too short to reach the terminals. An example of a + terminal-on-right battery is shown here:

 

http://www.tayna.co.uk/Type-110-Varta-Silver-Dynamic-F18-585-200-080-P7709.html

[RONROSIEM]

Thanks for comments. It is a swivel seat and I had little difficulty removing it. I am happy with the practical aspects of the change but worry about possible damage to electronic systems.

I am proposing a Bosch S4 80AH-720CCA. I will definitely be asking my dealer to pay for it but I'm not waiting while they procrastinate and it would cost more in diesel than the cost of a new battery.

(Van is new and under full Ford warranty but understandably they say this is not their problem)

Regards

[roger s]

Out of interest, all the Transits (Mk7) that I have seen have had Varta Batteries fitted as the Auxilliary and a Ford branded battery as the starter.(fitted from New that is) If I have seen this the dealer must have and is being naughty with you.

[Derek Uzzell]

The Bosch battery you are considering obtaining is the same (except for the Bosch labelling) as the Varta Blue Dynamic battery shown here - though you may be able to source the Varta one more cheaply if you shop around:

 

http://www.tayna.co.uk/Type-110-Varta-Blue-Dynamic-Car-Battery-P1644.html

 

Varta's Silver Dynamic equivalent offers a higher capacity (85Ah rather than 80Ah) and CCA (800 rather than 740), plus a 5-year warranty not 4 years. That's going to be my choice when I replace my Hobby's present original Motorcraft battery.

 

http://www.tayna.co.uk/Type-110-Varta-Silver-Dynamic-F18-585-200-080-P7709.html

 

I hesitate to say this, but you have still not provided any details of your motorhome's make and model. All I now know is that it was purchased brand-new in late-2011 and that the dealership you bought it from is evidently a long way from where you live. And, of course, that a Ford agent has told you that the vehicle's factory-fitted starter-battery has been replaced with a lower-quality, unsuitable one. (As you've had the seat off, presumably you are now able to confirm the Ford agent's diagnosis?) If your motorhome has been sold new with the wrong starter-battery, there's the possibility that other motorhomes of the same make/model/vintage are in the same position and may also suffer starting difficulties, but, for owners to check this, your motorhome needs to be accurately identified.

 

Regarding potential electrical-system damage, there's no reason to fear this as long as you follow best practice relating to vehicle battery replacement and don't do anything daft. Robin Hood has warned of losing the radio security code and my Transit handbook advises that

 

"If the battery has been disconnected the vehicle may exhibit some unusual driving characteristics for approximately 5 miles (8 km) after battery reconnection while the engine management system realigns itself with the engine."

 

I found this video-clip showing the position of the starter-battery as located in my Hobby motorhome and the hinge-up cover I mentioned earlier.

 

 

The Motorcraft battery in my Hobby is not maintenance-free (though in 7 years its electrolyte level has never needed topping up) and has a vent-tube connected to its left end as shown in the video-clip. The Bosch/Varta batteries referred to above are maintenance-free, but I'm pretty sure they accept a vent-tube. If you are lucky, attaching the vent-tube will just mean removing the appropriate plug from the replacement battery and pushing the 'elbow' on the end of the present Ford-fitted tube into the now-unplugged hole.

 

There's a lot of good battery-related stuff on:

 

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/downloads/S3_S4_S5_Broch_Final.pdf

[Derek Uzzell]

roger s - 2012-04-18 7:53 AM

 

Out of interest, all the Transits (Mk7) that I have seen have had Varta Batteries fitted as the Auxilliary and a Ford branded battery as the starter.(fitted from New that is) If I have seen this the dealer must have and is being naughty with you.

 

It would appear (based on yours and fordtransit forum comments) that Ford will supply motorhome converters to order with the under-seat battery combination you mention - a standard Ford starter-battery in the rear part of the seat pedestal, with a dimensionally larger Varta deep-cycle battery in the pedestal's front part powering habitation equipment. There's nothing novel about this, in fact, as my 1996-built Herald (constructed on a 'specially ordered' Ford lower floor-height RWD Transit chassis) had the same Ford/Varta battery pairing, though the batteries were under the bonnet in the Herald's case.

 

I don't know where the auxiliary battery is in RON&ROSIEM's motorhome, or whether there's a difference in Ford-provided auxiliary battery location between FWD and RWD Transits. My FWD Transit Mk 6 had an Exide gel battery as the auxiliary battery located beneath the passenger cab-seat and I'm sure Hobby installed it there not Ford.

 

There appear to be three options for RON&ROSIEM's motorhome:

 

1) An unsuitable starter-battery was installed when the Transit chassis was originally built.

 

2) The original Ford-provided starter-battery was replaced by an unsuitable one during the conversion process.

 

3) The original Ford-provided starter-battery was replaced by an unsuitable one by the vending motorhome dealership.

 

As swivelling cab-seats are not a Ford option, and adding seat swivels at the conversion stage makes subsequent access to the battery difficult, it's tempting to think that Option 2 is most likely where the swap took place.

 

If that were so (and the vehicle then started OK for a while) then a motorhome dealership might well not spot the change. It needs remembering that PDI-ing the base-vehicle part of a motorhome is not a motorhome dealership's responsibility and, if I were a dealer, I certainly would not anticipate that a starter-battery hidden beneath a seat-swivel was not the original Ford factory-fitted one.

 

All very odd...

[RONROSIEM]

Sorry I missed to quote van details. It is a ROLLERTEAM AUTOROLLER 200 on a FORD TRANSIT Diesel 2.2. (I think converted in Italy)

I can confirm that the battery installed is a Lucas 68AH- 570CCA.

Thanks again for all the useful info.

PS Does maintenance free mean no need for a vent pipe ?

 

[Derek Uzzell]

RON&ROSIEM - 2012-04-18 5:07 PM

 

...Does maintenance free mean no need for a vent pipe ?

 

"Maintenance-free" basically means that you cannot top-up a battery's electrolyte level.

 

I think (if you bought a Varta or Bosch battery of the type mentioned above) you'd find that there is a vent-hole in each end of the battery. You'd connect the existing vent-tube to the vent-hole that's most convenient and plug the hole in the battery's opposite end with a plug that (I think) you detach from the battery's handle.

[spospe]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-04-18 7:02 PM

 

RON&ROSIEM - 2012-04-18 5:07 PM

 

...Does maintenance free mean no need for a vent pipe ?

 

"Maintenance-free" basically means that you cannot top-up a battery's electrolyte level.

 

I think (if you bought a Varta or Bosch battery of the type mentioned above) you'd find that there is a vent-hole in each end of the battery. You'd connect the existing vent-tube to the vent-hole that's most convenient and plug the hole in the battery's opposite end with a plug that (I think) you detach from the battery's handle.

 

The largest Varta leisure battery which can be fitted under the standard drivers seat of a MK7 Transit is the 90 amp/hour 957-052-000 model and it is 353 x 175 x 190 mm in size

 

Older Varta leisure batteries have white cases and can be topped-up as required. The current model has a black case and has no removable plugs for topping-up. There are plugs in both ends of the battery, which can be removed in order to fit the hydrogen gas vent tube.

[Derek Uzzell]

spospe - 2012-04-18 10:22 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-04-18 7:02 PM

 

RON&ROSIEM - 2012-04-18 5:07 PM

 

...Does maintenance free mean no need for a vent pipe ?

 

"Maintenance-free" basically means that you cannot top-up a battery's electrolyte level.

 

I think (if you bought a Varta or Bosch battery of the type mentioned above) you'd find that there is a vent-hole in each end of the battery. You'd connect the existing vent-tube to the vent-hole that's most convenient and plug the hole in the battery's opposite end with a plug that (I think) you detach from the battery's handle.

 

The largest Varta leisure battery which can be fitted under the standard drivers seat of a MK7 Transit is the 90 amp/hour 957-052-000 model and it is 353 x 175 x 190 mm in size

 

Older Varta leisure batteries have white cases and can be topped-up as required. The current model has a black case and has no removable plugs for topping-up. There are plugs in both ends of the battery, which can be removed in order to fit the hydrogen gas vent tube.

 

True enough, but it's the starter-battery that's involved here.

 

Assuming that RON&ROSIEM's Auto-Roller 200's starter-battery installation is similar to my Transit-based Hobby's (as shown in the video-clip I referred to earlier) a like-for-like replacement will probably be (as I previously suggested) sized at 315mm(L) x 175mm(W) x 175mm(H).

 

It might be possible to install a starter-battery sized to the dimensions you've given, but it would need to be installed in the front section of the driver's-seat pedestal and the original battery cabling would need to be modified significantly to connect to it. It's also likely that the original metal hold-down 'strap' would need to be replaced to match the battery's increase in height.

 

The length of the starter-battery is limited to a maximum of (nominally) 315mm, as Ford's factory installation routes electrical cabling (and the vent tube) across the ends of the battery. Battery standardisation means that, if one opts for the 315mm length, you'll normally end up with maximum width and height dimensions of 175mm. A 315mm(L) x 175mm(W) x 190mm(H) size is available but, as the lower-height size Ford factory-fits can provide at least 80Ah and 700 CCA, there seems to be little advantage in choosing the less common taller size.

 

I can't identify any current Lucas product that exactly matches the 68Ah 570 CCA combination that RON&ROSIEM provided, which suggests the battery in the Auto-Roller may not be very new. Unless the motorhome dealership that sold the vehicle is able to offer an explanation as to why the battery is incorrect, the mystery may never be satisfactorily resolved.

[RONROSIEM]

As Derek says a 315/175/175mm will fit and at 80AH/720CCA should be adequate so that's what I'll be going for. As mentioned in my first query post I don't expect to get a straight answer from either dealer or manufacturer so I'm taking the pragmatic view that I may as well stump up £80-£90 and feel secure that the van will start.

It annoying after spending £30000+ on a new vehicle but not worth losing too much sleep over.

Thanks again for all the feedback. Happy to call it a day at that.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

How this matter is progressed is your choice of course, but (as things stand) you have effectively been short-changed for well over £200 - the value of the correct Ford-supplied battery that you haven't got, plus the cost of the replacement.

 

There is also the possibility that installing a different battery to what Ford would have factory-fitted could impact on your motorhome's Ford warranty. Ford won't have factory-fitted a Bosch, Varta, etc. starter-battery and this might cause difficulties down the line if there were a need to have electrical work carried out within the Transit's warranty period. I'm not suggesting that the possibility of such warranty-related difficulties occurring is high, just that the possibility is foreseeable.

 

As your vehicle's Transit chassis was built in Turkey, shipped to Italy for conversion and then brought to the UK for sale, a trace-back all the way down the line won't be practicable. The 'wrong' battery being Lucas-branded suggests that it may have been installed in this country, but who knows when and by whom?

 

It's the vending dealership's legal responsibility to have supplied you with a motorhome that's fit for purpose and that didn't happen. You've paid £30k+ for a faulty vehicle and the dealesrhip has made the same profit as if the vehicle had been in perfect condition. Me, I'd want the same battery Ford would have factory-fitted and I'd want the dealer to provide it or fund its provision via a Ford agency.

 

I fully appreciate that your motorhome NEEDS a replacement battery asap, but if you choose to overlook the vending dealership legal responsibility regarding the battery, you may want to ask yourself whether this won't set a precedent should other problems arise in future. I'm not suggesting that you immediately start knocking on the Trading Standards office door, just that you should make your annoyance very plain to the dealership involved and insist that the correct battery be fitted to your vehicle.

[Robinhood]

....I must admit, I'm largely in agreement with Derek here.

 

There is always a temptation simply to bypass any aggro and do the job oneself, if one is capable of doing so, but it reallly would be better to raise the issue with the dealer. (Given that the vehicle was new).

 

It isn't as if you are having to change an original battery that has failed (which the Ford warranty would/should cover), what you have is patently a battery which isn't up to spec (and therefore wasn't the original battery at all).

 

I would certainly want the dealer to make a (full) contribution to any replacement, though (whilst I acknowledge some of Derek's concerns) whether I would go so far as to demand an "original fitment" replacement would probably depend on how easy it was to obtain, and how likely I though the dealer was to stump up. (I would check, however, that the battery I bought was a recommended replacement for the vehicle, and that it had a decent warranty).

 

If you are having starting problems, and given your current stance, I would be tempted to treat it as a "distress purchase" , contact your dealer stating the circumstances, and your intention to replace it as an emergency with your proposed solution.

 

Point out that the OE fitment would be much more expensive, and that the current fitted battery is not up to Ford specification (the build specs are in my post above). If necessary, take a photo of the existing battery as supporting evidence.

 

Ask them to cover the cost of change.

 

Having, over the years, visited numerous dealers who leave their vans unlocked, and batteries still attached, I'm surprised that many vehicles don't require new batteries all round (leisure and vehicle) before being finally delivered. "Tyre kickers" are prone to switching on any or all of the electrical items, and leaving them on, and leisure batteries in particular can often be observed on forecourts in a very-discharged state.

 

I wouldn't think it an uncommon occurence for a van which has been sold to be discovered (late on) to have duff batteries, and to be replaced with whatever is on site (particularly if the discovery is made just before pick-up). Your dealer may, of course, be well above doing that. ;-)