MG Icon

[CliveH]

Looks good

 

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2012/04/25/mg-icon-concept-car-revealed-at-beijing-motor-show-97319-30832137/

 

 

[Caddies104]

Can I have one please!!

[donna miller]

Hmm, the name MG doesn't exactly inspire confidence given their track record of producing some of the worst cars ever to hit the roads.

And before anyone slates me for that statement, don't confuse nostalgia with the reality of owning an MG.

[Guest Tracker]

donna miller - 2012-04-26 12:38 PM

 

Hmm, the name MG doesn't exactly inspire confidence given their track record of producing some of the worst cars ever to hit the roads.

And before anyone slates me for that statement, don't confuse nostalgia with the reality of owning an MG.

 

That's a bit unkind Donna - think back to Lada, Moskvich, Polski Fiat, and who can forget the fabulous Trabant!

 

We did nearly buy and MGF to play with in the summer last year but we settled for a Toyota MR2 instead and have no regrets - just wish it was easier to get me weary old self in and out of!!

 

Think I might swap it for a nice Jag this year - and before you say it - I know only to well that not all Jags are nice!

[Syd]

think back to Lada, Moskvich, Polski Fiat, and who can forget the fabulous Trabant!

 

Yes Tracker think back, each of the cars that you mention were streets ahead of that monstrosity called called the ALLEGRO and not to mention the MARINA

 

With designs such as those no wonder they whent tits up

[Guest Tracker]

Syd - 2012-04-26 11:59 PM

 

Yes Tracker think back, each of the cars that you mention were streets ahead of that monstrosity called called the ALLEGRO and not to mention the MARINA

 

 

Agreed hardly the best cars in the world but that said I had many thousands of reliable, if not quite problem free, miles out of both models as both company and later privately owned older cars in the 80s.

 

My perception was that in reality their reliability was not much worse than other marques of the era and generally they were more economical than most - but they got a lot more flack from the 'if it's British it can't be any good' brigade, including the 'death wish' unions of the era.

[BGD]

MG?

Forget the rose tinted spectacles.

Awful. Sorry, but the brand was totally busted by British Leyland. And then further mangled by Rover Group.

 

I spent some years in the Automotive industry with a company supplying electrical components to car manufacturers all over the world, and I can still recall that the mininum lineside component quality standard at Rover was 200ppm.

In other words, we would be in breach of supply contract if more than 200 out of every one million switches that we delivered were faulty. That was their acceptable quality standard benchmark for suppliers.

 

Sounds very impressive.

Until you learn that Honda and Toyota had a Supplier quality standard of 20ppm.

If there were more than 20 faulty switches in any one million delivered to them, you were in breach of their Supplier quality standard.

 

The Toyota standard of 20ppm is a TEN TIMES higher supplier quality standard than that at Rover.

 

That is why Toyota cars are consistently the most reliable in the world.

And Leyland/Rover cars were in truth amongst the worst....as well as offering diabolical design, piss-poor value for money, rubbish mpg, crap levels of spec, and apocalyptic depreciation.

 

 

[Dr Dave]

Any company that thought a square steering wheel as fitted to the allegro was a good idea let alone a selling point deserves all they get.

Then i went and bought a marina what a car that was. it had two paving slabs in the boot all the time just in case of wet icy or low traction surfaces.

What was the square steering wheel called? quadra or summat.

[LordThornber]

Dr Dave - 2012-04-28 5:52 PM

What was the square steering wheel called? quadra or summat.

 

Quartic 8-)

 

Martyn

[Guest peter]

With respect, there are thousands of MG.F's and TF's still being used and are not rusty. You can't say the same for MR.2's (I had a Mk1 and it was a rotbox) and MX.5's, both of which are bad for rust. Not to mention that fabulous K.series engine which will leave both of them standing. The TF was the best selling softop for years, far outstripping the MX.5, and for good reason, it's far prettier and is more fun to drive. A lot of the electronics etc are a bit dated now, but this is a sports car for enthusiasts and not a luxury saloon.

I do happen to own a TF so may be a bit biased.

My wife wants me to trade it in for a Mercedes SLK, they may be more reliable and luxurious, but won't be half as much fun to drive, so I'm keeping the TF.

(until she says otherwise) :D

[Bolly1965]

I had both the MG F and MX-5 and the Mazda won hands down - the MG was way to unreliable, didn't handle as well and wasn't as much fun to drive (I have a Pontiac Firebird now - that handles like a bag of spanners but ohh the sound of the V8!!!)

[Syd]

Dr Dave - 2012-04-28 5:52 PM

 

Any company that thought a square steering wheel as fitted to the allegro was a good idea let alone a selling point deserves all they get.

Then i went and bought a marina what a car that was. it had two paving slabs in the boot all the time just in case of wet icy or low traction surfaces.

What was the square steering wheel called? quadra or summat.

 

 

Pleased that someone has mentioned the wonderful handling that the Marina displayed in the wet, I nearly lost half of my face and one ear because of that, still it wasn't all bad because that crash did write off the Marina thank God.

 

What parcels of trash they were

[BGD]

peter - 2012-04-28 6:08 PM

 

With respect, there are thousands of MG.F's and TF's still being used and are not rusty. You can't say the same for MR.2's (I had a Mk1 and it was a rotbox) and MX.5's, both of which are bad for rust. Not to mention that fabulous K.series engine which will leave both of them standing. The TF was the best selling softop for years, far outstripping the MX.5, and for good reason, it's far prettier and is more fun to drive. A lot of the electronics etc are a bit dated now, but this is a sports car for enthusiasts and not a luxury saloon.

I do happen to own a TF so may be a bit biased.

My wife wants me to trade it in for a Mercedes SLK, they may be more reliable and luxurious, but won't be half as much fun to drive, so I'm keeping the TF.

(until she says otherwise) :D

 

 

 

Peter - I'm intrigued.

 

In which years exactly are you asserting that the MGTF actually outsold the Mazda MX5, and can you provide your source please.

 

I can find not a single year, not one; during the entire MGTF production, in which sales of the MGTF came within a zillion miles of sales of the MX5 (I assume you are talking global and not just UK sales).

 

[donna miller]

Ah, but don't forget Bruce, when you bought an MGF, you ended up buying several engines for it, maybe MG just took one out of the millions of unsold cars in storage and classed that as another sale.

I've had both the MGF and MX5, the MG might have been faster, but the Mazda beat it hands down in every other way.

[HWO]

All this talk about Marina's reminds me of the time with my first newish car.

 

Could never stop water getting into the boot.

 

Took it back to the dealers,and their solution was to drill a hole in the spare wheel well to let the water out. I seem to remember they did'nt even slap a bit of paint round the bare metal of the hole to stop it rusting.

Happy Days

HWO

[Guest peter]

BGD - 2012-04-28 11:58 PM

 

peter - 2012-04-28 6:08 PM

 

With respect, there are thousands of MG.F's and TF's still being used and are not rusty. You can't say the same for MR.2's (I had a Mk1 and it was a rotbox) and MX.5's, both of which are bad for rust. Not to mention that fabulous K.series engine which will leave both of them standing. The TF was the best selling softop for years, far outstripping the MX.5, and for good reason, it's far prettier and is more fun to drive. A lot of the electronics etc are a bit dated now, but this is a sports car for enthusiasts and not a luxury saloon.

I do happen to own a TF so may be a bit biased.

My wife wants me to trade it in for a Mercedes SLK, they may be more reliable and luxurious, but won't be half as much fun to drive, so I'm keeping the TF.

(until she says otherwise) :D

I'm talking u/k.

 

 

Peter - I'm intrigued.

 

In which years exactly are you asserting that the MGTF actually outsold the Mazda MX5, and can you provide your source please.

 

I can find not a single year, not one; during the entire MGTF production, in which sales of the MGTF came within a zillion miles of sales of the MX5 (I assume you are talking global and not just UK sales).

[Guest Tracker]

We have a 7 year old Mk 3 Toyota MR2 and along with every other post 2000 MR2 there is absolutely no rust on it and it is great fun as it drives, rides and handles superbly - different to but equally as well as either of the other two. It's all a case of which you prefer?

 

My perception and experience is that none of these cars is a rust bucket - unlike many of their predecessors!

 

The MGF, MGTF, MX5 and MR2 are all great fun summer cars - but with a hard top, air con and heated glass rear window the MR2 is also a practical winter car as well.

 

When it comes to practicalities like carrying shopping etc only the MX5 has any viable stowage - and the MR2 is flippin useless!

 

As for reliability and build quality - well who would pitch any MG against a Toyota or Mazda - although it must be said that most of the MG's we looked at that had had a gentle life compared favourably with the other two visually.

 

 

[Colin Leake]

I went for a test-drive in a Marina when they first came out. I remember it struggled to climb Poll Hill near us and the lack of brakes scared the **** out of me on the way back down.

[BGD]

peter - 2012-04-29 2:50 PM

 

BGD - 2012-04-28 11:58 PM

 

peter - 2012-04-28 6:08 PM

 

With respect, there are thousands of MG.F's and TF's still being used and are not rusty. You can't say the same for MR.2's (I had a Mk1 and it was a rotbox) and MX.5's, both of which are bad for rust. Not to mention that fabulous K.series engine which will leave both of them standing. The TF was the best selling softop for years, far outstripping the MX.5, and for good reason, it's far prettier and is more fun to drive. A lot of the electronics etc are a bit dated now, but this is a sports car for enthusiasts and not a luxury saloon.

I do happen to own a TF so may be a bit biased.

My wife wants me to trade it in for a Mercedes SLK, they may be more reliable and luxurious, but won't be half as much fun to drive, so I'm keeping the TF.

(until she says otherwise) :D

I'm talking u/k.

 

 

Peter - I'm intrigued.

 

In which years exactly are you asserting that the MGTF actually outsold the Mazda MX5, and can you provide your source please.

 

I can find not a single year, not one; during the entire MGTF production, in which sales of the MGTF came within a zillion miles of sales of the MX5 (I assume you are talking global and not just UK sales).

 

 

 

 

I trust that you accept that in fact the MX5 slaughtered the MG in global sales. Every year.

 

And then even using UK only sales/registrations then, in which years did the MGTF, as you assert, outsell the Maxda MX5?

And where did you get your figures from to back up this assertion please.

 

'Cos apparently the SMMT figures seem to show the exact opposite of what you've said. Year after year after year.

 

http://www.mazda.co.uk/aboutmazda/mazdanews/mazda_corporate/mazda-mx-5-hits-100000-sales-milestone-in-the-uk/

 

[CliveH]

I have no doubt the MX5 sold better than the MG - Maxda's production capacity is enormous - MG's tiny. But whatever the respective merits - the MX5 looks so ??????? Bland.

 

It does not make me go wow! - the MR2 Mk2 does tho.

 

I hope MG does as well as Triumph M/C's - with a good product well made and decent management any UK workforce has the capacity to excel.

 

And remember if you wanted a car that rusted well then you bought an early Japanese car - The Nissan Cherry and Honda S600's and SM 600's were as bad as the Lancia Beta for the tin worm.

 

So I wish M&G well. I think Jag/LR is an excellent example of what can happen to a UK car company when all the factors are "right" - despite some appalling things being "wrong" in the past.

 

MG could come in just under Jag/LR in price and have a real success on its hands - I hope it does.

[BGD]

CliveH - 2012-04-30 8:31 AM

 

I have no doubt the MX5 sold better than the MG - Maxda's production capacity is enormous - MG's tiny. But whatever the respective merits - the MX5 looks so ??????? Bland.

 

It does not make me go wow! - the MR2 Mk2 does tho.

 

I hope MG does as well as Triumph M/C's - with a good product well made and decent management any UK workforce has the capacity to excel.

 

And remember if you wanted a car that rusted well then you bought an early Japanese car - The Nissan Cherry and Honda S600's and SM 600's were as bad as the Lancia Beta for the tin worm.

 

So I wish M&G well. I think Jag/LR is an excellent example of what can happen to a UK car company when all the factors are "right" - despite some appalling things being "wrong" in the past.

 

MG could come in just under Jag/LR in price and have a real success on its hands - I hope it does.

 

 

 

But just to be clear, sales are a function of "pull".....driven by customer demand, not "push" ....simply based upon production capacity.

 

And in any event, MGTF production capacity was over 200,000 cars per year from 2007 onwards once the brand/products had been acquired by the Chinese Nanjing Automotive Group.

 

It was not a lack of supply that has buried this model, it was a combination of too-high price, totally busted brand image, and design and production quality control issues (lots of problems with door fittings amongst other things); and more latterly with supplier component problems thrown in.

 

The UK site has, since it was restarted, has NOT "manufactured" the MGTF at all.

It has only done "Final Assembly" of CKD kits brought in from the Chinese factory

This is really only CKD assembly.........meaning that each car is actually put together in China, then disassembled again into "knocked down kits" into a kit of sufficiently numerous parts to get round the EU tariff barriers on importing complete cars from outside of the EU).

 

Despite all this production capacity, the UK plant has only been able to sell a tiny number of cars since it restarted :- a total of just 906 MGTF cars ......................an utterly massive money-pit for it's now Chinese owners SAIC....which is why SAIC finally pulled the plug in 2009 on this consistently and hugely loss-making, model, that almost no-one at all wanted to buy.

 

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_F_/_MG_TF

http://mg.co.uk/

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

BGD - 2012-04-30 10:03 AM

But just to be clear, sales are a function of "pull".....driven by customer demand, not "push" ....simply based upon production capacity.

 

Does that include Ford these days Bruce as their policy used to be very much biased towards manufacturing to not quite total plant capacity to keep the unit cost down and worry about selling them all afterwards?

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that when the Chinese really get going over here that will be their outlook too so that they get maximum market penetration quickly?

[CliveH]

I do not doubt that the MG of old produced suspect cars - the problem has always been lack of money for proper development. One example would be that Land Rover had a budget to develop the Mk1 Discovery that was smaller than that which Toyota spent on its Staff Canteen!

 

But - for all its faults - the Discovery went o to be a huge success.

 

I really do not think you can blight a new model produced by MG under its new Chinese ownership because of what went before.

 

Things change.

 

The Chinese have deep pockets and are putting in considerable effort to get it right. MG in the UK is mainly a a toehold into Europe plus the fact that for R&D - the UK is still one of the best places in the world for cars.

 

The MG factory in the UK will produce new models from kits produced in China. No problem with this. Land Rover have been doing it in South Africa and Turkey for years. They did if in Spain via Santana for a long time until Santana when their own way via Suzuki. Their Hanibal was a 110 look alike but with parabolic springs rather than coils and an interior based on Suzuki componants.

 

Some Land Rovers were built abroad with Isuzu engines because a) they were better than the old LR engines - though the 200 and 300 did offer some improvements and b) because local workshops had the tools to service the Isuzu and did not want the expence of stocking another range of spares.

 

As for what cars are what - when I first went to Africa I saw on the streets of Kenya a car that was badged a Ford Escort and the badges were exactly what I knew to be Escort badges - but the car was a Mazda 323.

 

Car manufacturers always have done what makes market sense.

 

MG deserves praise for it refusing to lay down and die. I hope its new owners give it the chance and the resources UK car companies have historically always been starved of.

 

If the new model turns out to be a pile of poo then that will be a shame in my book.

 

But as I say - I hope it will be a success and that MG grows in the UK to become a success and a large employer of people. The Chinese owners would do well to consider the HUGE success that Nissan and Honda have had in the UK. Showing that with the right management and investment the UK can produce damn good cars.

 

 

[CliveH]

Sorry - double post - real probs with internet today - I think the wet is in the tel cables.

[Guest peter]

I don't know where bruce is coming from, but have a look here, about says it all.

http://mg.co.uk//6-gt/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=MG6%20Model%20Generic&utm_term=mg6