So seeing as.........

[nightrider]

So seeing as it does not take long for war to break out between our illustrious members what do you thing of Adolf Hitler? now theres an emotive subject, lets see what war breaks out now?

Or will the subject be deemed as not being politically correct.

[BGD]

Whatever else people mights say, he was a very intelligent man.

 

Many years ago I read "Mein Kampf" (or at least, the English translation), which he wrote whilst in prison. A VERY thought-provoking work.

 

There's a strong argument to suggest that if the Allies had not utterly ruined Germany with massive reparations after WW1, then there would not have been a populist rise in nationalism there in the 1930's, a wave upon which Hitler surfed into power.

It should also remembered that he was just one man.

Yet his charisma, his drive, his vision, of Germany " uber alles" (Germany above everyone else) was embraced by millions of ordinary German people. Timing was, as is always the case, everything.

Thus, by tiny individual steps, a man, a party, a parliament, a Government, a population, a country, and then an entire World meandered into all-out war.

 

Discuss.......

[Guest peter]

No thank you.

[CliveH]

Totally agree BGD - Repatriations is what re-forrmed the hatred.

 

From that point it was easy for a simply man (however intelligent) to form the nexus of the Third R.

 

It was not of course - never was - never could be - But - it was what the people of a battered country wanted to hear.

 

How similar now that France rejects the so called "sensible" austerity package dreampt up by Sarky and Merky?

 

How similar that Greece throws out its "traditional" parties and votes in ne untried, untested minority parties that will have to form coalitions of the most convoluted type and form?

 

And is this just the start?

[Retread24800]

There is a theory in the forum world that as soon as a post starts to mention Adolf or the National Socialist Party then that is time to sign out..........................................All logical argument having failed

[CliveH]

Yep- this is Godwins Law - this from Wiki - which in this case is a pretty good explanation:-

 

'There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself) than others. For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized corollary that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful.

 

Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis. The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany such as genocide, eugenics or racial superiority, nor, more debatably, to a discussion of other totalitarian regimes or ideologies, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate, in effect committing the fallacist's fallacy. Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, since this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.'

 

So it does not stop a sensible discussion on Hitler et al. It simply suggests that where a discussion gets overly heated the odds that one side compares the other to the Nazi's or Hitler approaches 1

 

 

[malc d]

Whenever I hear someone say " I started with nothing, and worked my way to the top " - I think of Adolf.

 

Not always the sort of people that I would like to be associated with.

 

 

 

;-)

[Guest Tracker]

I started with nothing and I still have most of it left!

[Guest pelmetman]

I started at the bottom and worked my way down untl I reached my Footseys :D

 

Aaaha.............managed to get an advert in at long last........(lol)

[Retread24800]

CliveH - 2012-05-08 7:12 AMYep- this is Godwins Law - this from Wiki - which in this case is a pretty good explanation:-'There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself) than others. For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized corollary that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful.Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis. The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany such as genocide, eugenics or racial superiority, nor, more debatably, to a discussion of other totalitarian regimes or ideologies, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate, in effect committing the fallacist's fallacy. Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, since this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.'So it does not stop a sensible discussion on Hitler et al. It simply suggests that where a discussion gets overly heated the odds that one side compares the other to the Nazi's or Hitler approaches 1

 

Sorry if I upset anybodies sensibilities I have no wish to stifle any discussion with an historical basis, certainly not when we consider the rantings on other threads :-) the post was meant (though not successfully) to be light-hearted in that here is a thread that starts with this rather than, the usual, finishes.

Like some others I also read Mein Kampf in translation and I can well believe why it was so successful taking into account the socio-economic condition's prevailing in Germany after the First World War.

 

A sense of defeat, rampant inflation, plunging living standards and a minority who seemed to be immune or even having profited from Germany's defeat.

 

Perhaps we should learn from this and perhaps reflect when we are castigating Bankers and Fat Cats, (others might include Immigrants, Muslims and eastern European workers).

Maybe the initial group should also take note that a population will not, given the leadership, continue to put up with a similar situation and while we believe that the drastic measures taken against the minorities during the third reich would never happen again, its only because our political outlook is one of moderation. We only need to look at other cultures where moderation is not seen as a positive attitude to learn what fundamentalism, back to grass roots, red neck family values and intolerance of an opposing view can deteriorate into.

 

[CliveH]

Totally agree.

 

Godwins Law is overplayed by some.

 

Moderation in all things (apart from Rioja) is a good biword.

[Retread24800]

CliveH - 2012-05-08 2:48 PMTotally agree.Godwins Law is overplayed by some.Moderation in all things (apart from Rioja) is a good biword.

Not just Rioja why limit yourself , any red from any where and its always good to come away from the mainstream and learn about Vin Rouge doux, the multiplicity of Rosés and even to try a few Whites from Monbazillac through to the very dry and to aid our further understanding of all that the world can offer there are always those strange and frightening sparkling wines, shouldn't be allowed :-)

 

[malc d]

CliveH - 2012-05-08 1:48 PM

 

Totally agree.

 

Godwins Law is overplayed by some.

 

.

 

 

 

... and of course," Godwins Law " is not a law anyway, it's an opinion, so can safely be ignored if you feel so inclined.

 

 

;-)

[Symbol Owner]

CliveH - 2012-05-08 1:48 PM

Moderation in all things (apart from Rioja) is a good by-word.

 

Here's a wonderful (and unusual) dense red from my favourite (and local to me!) wine merchant, as a welcome change from all of that Rioja, Clive:- http://www.yapp.co.uk/Wine-List/Roussillon-Wines/Vin-de-Pays-Catalan-Wines/Vin-de-Pays-Catalan--Carignan-2007/

 

or this:- http://www.yapp.co.uk/Wine-List/Provence-Wines/Bandol-Wines/Bandol--Mas-de-la-Rouviere-Rouge-2007/ utterly brilliant!

 

Enjoy!

 

Cheers!

 

Colin.