Guest Peter James Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Interesting short video here :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 So, the trolls have gone Republican this week then! :D The video is full of the usual specious arguments usually put forward by proponents of an alternative system of Government/ Head of State. As usual, this country tried the alternative before anyone else ( in 1653 no less) and found it wanting, of course. When looking at a constitutional Monarchy, ( not just in this country, but in Holland, Norway, or even, Spain, which returned to it after years of dictatorship) just consider the countries which have presidents, many of which have side-stepped ( or tried to side-step) democratic checks and balances to achieve absolute power (and often a dynasty) for themselves. Several of these, of course, being in our former colonies in Africa -- and what a mess they are in now! No Peter, those countries, like France, who followed our example and 'topped' their Monarch, or the USA,which chose the presidential route, are the ones that are most envious of and interested in our royalty. I could go on, but this is a debate with little or no 'middle ground' one is either on one side or the other -- but it might make for a good discussion on here! (sorry about the troll comments and thanks for raising it Peter!) Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 As one American put it; 'The thing we like most about your Royal Family is that they are yours and not ours ;-) ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 And the "thing" I dislike about our Royal Family is Charles and the fact that one sad day he will be King. Still it could be worse - he could have abdicated (it's been done before you know!!!) and Andrew could still be married to the truly awful Fergus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Given the choice between Charles or President Blair..........no contest old big ears wins everytime ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-05-31 12:07 PM Given the choice between Charles or President Blair..........no contest old big ears wins everytime ;-) Oh! God yes!! What a thought. hat puts Charles in a much better light. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-05-31 12:07 PM Given the choice between Charles or President Blair..........no contest old big ears wins everytime ;-) That point is often raised, so I am surprised they didn't answer it in the video. Blair was once the people's choice. The people don't always make the best choice, but its their choice. We got rid of Blair, but we can't get rid of Charles ..... or the other members of his family ..... or their hangers on ....... or Charle's descendants ..... or their hangers on ...... ad infinitum, for evermore ....... whatever they turn out to be like .......even if they turn out to be as bad as his ancestors (Sorry to go on and on, but thats the point. They go on and on, forced on to their 'subjects' whether their 'subjects' want them, or not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 PS: I could add that Blair has been asked some awkward questions. None of the Royals have. Because they don't give interviews, and consider it beneath themselves to answer their subjects questions. The Queen even dropped all charges against Diana's Butler, saying she had suddenly found the missing jewellery at the last moment, rather than attend court to give evidence and be questioned. If the Royals had to answer their subject's questions, instead of just issuing statements through their 30 full time spin doctors, what might we find out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Sorry Peter, But............. 'We' didn't "Get rid of Blair" he 'got rid' of himself! What we got was not 'the people's choice' we got Gordon Brown! At least the monarchy (even arch-meddler Charles) are pretty harmless and have no real power, and, in extremis, could be got rid of -- forced to abdicate, or whatever. (even execution, again? (lol) ) As even prime ministerial government gets even more presidential, any democratic reins, checks and balances, need to be in place to curtail the megalomaniacs -- just imagine a president Thatcher!!!!! Help (!) Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Symbol Owner - 2012-05-31 1:02 PM -- just imagine a president Thatcher!!!!! Help (!) Colin. NOOoooooooo!! 8-) ..I call dibs,on the "grassy knoll".... >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Symbol Owner - 2012-05-31 1:02 PM Sorry Peter, But............. 'We' didn't "Get rid of Blair" he 'got rid' of himself! What we got was not 'the people's choice' we got Gordon Brown! At least the monarchy (even arch-meddler Charles) are pretty harmless and have no real power, and, in extremis, could be got rid of -- forced to abdicate, or whatever. (even execution, again? (lol) ) As even prime ministerial government gets even more presidential, any democratic reins, checks and balances, need to be in place to curtail the megalomaniacs -- just imagine a president Thatcher!!!!! Help (!) Colin. If Blair hadn't gone at a time of his choosing do you think he would still be in power now? If the Royals have no real power, why do we have to have them? Glad you mentioned Brown and Thatcher - both of whom the people have been allowed to remove by an election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 No -- Thatcher was removed by her party -- and that is my point -- 'we' don't 'chose' or 'remove' prime ministers -- their parties do -- but at least the ruling party -- or coalition, currently, is elected and has the power to implement its policies, which should have been in their manifesto -- I know, they don't always stick to them -- but at least they don't have to try to impose their own will over the legislature, as several American Presidents (including the current one ) have had to try to do, when congress and the House of Representatives has a majority of the opposing party. Whose democratic will/choice is being exercised there? It seems to me that to have the last tier of governance as the signatory to enable legislation, and to:-"advise & warn" as we have now, is the safest option, and leads to less abuse of power than any republican system currently in operation around the world. Two of the world's most tolerant liberal democracies, Norway and Holland, are also constitutional monarchies. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 As someone who deeply resents his taxes being wasted ;-) ............I don't mind the few pence a day it costs me to keep them...........Overall I think old Madge has done a good job :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 As far as I am concerned the Royal Family - all of 'em - are of far greater benefit to this country than many perceive and many many countries in the world are envious - even the yanks, in fact especially the Yanks who are so envious of the history and traditions that we have and they don't. As for King Charles - yes I think he would be an OK King - but do I want to be part of all the faffing about this weekend - or his coronation - or anyone else's coronation - absolutely not! Judging by the amount of fuss being made this weekend and the number of people involved the anti Royals are in a small minority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Peter James - 2012-05-31 1:31 PM If Blair hadn't gone at a time of his choosing do you think he would still be in power now? He might well have been, Peter. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Symbol Owner - 2012-05-31 1:58 PM Two of the world's most tolerant liberal democracies, Norway and Holland, are also constitutional monarchies. Colin. Yes but they are a far cry from all the ones we have forced on to us. Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands rides around The Hague on a bike down to the supermarket and does her own shopping. Then complains about the cost of champagne and serves her guests sparkling wine instead. Her Unelected Majesty The Queen's 30 full time spin doctors have carefully cultivated her middle class image, but its still pretty clear she doesn't live like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Tracker - 2012-05-31 2:00 PM Judging by the amount of fuss being made this weekend and the number of people involved the anti Royals are in a small minority? Lots of people have parties on Bonfire Night, but are they really celebrating Guy Fawkes being burnt at the stake? Were the half a million people on the streets to see Ronnie Krays funeral procession all his supporters? Are all those who go to Christmas parties supporters of the Church? Are those who go to parties on St Patricks day believers in St Patrick? etc etc If the Royalists are so confident of support, why don't they want an election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 ......I trust you refused your nomination? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-05-31 2:00 PM ............I don't mind the few pence a day it costs me to keep them.......... What makes you think its only a few pence a day? What is the extra cost of the damage caused by legitimizing a system where respect, wealth and privilege is given, instead of earned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Peter James - 2012-05-31 5:51 PM What is the extra cost of the damage caused by legitimizing a system where respect, wealth and privilege is given, instead of earned? Like a president ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Well I for one prefer the system we have than the last lot of elected morons (not so new labour) who left us in the state we find ourselves being able to vote themselves a president for life. At least the royals show how civilised people can live their lives. My only complaint is I was removed from my rightful position in life at birth. (lol) John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 teflon2 - 2012-05-31 7:08 PM At least the royals show how civilised people can live their lives. Have you forgotten Prince Harry parading around in a Nazi Uniform & unable to control his temper without physically attacking a photographer carrying out his lawful duty in a public street. Fergie and the Duke of Wessex caught out by the fake sheik when they were soliciting bribes? Prince Phillip & Prince Charles killing animals for pleasure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Nobody living in England would expect anyone living in Scotland to understand anything about English tradition and heritage but until you Jocks get your independence and vote some slimy creep in as your own president you are stuck with our English way of doing things so you may as well get used to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Owner Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Peter James - 2012-05-31 8:2 Prince Phillip & Prince Charles killing animals for pleasure? What's wrong with that? It's perfectly legal. You are obviously a 'townie' Peter and don't understand country sports >:-) Cheers, Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Symbol Owner - 2012-05-31 8:57 PM You are obviously a 'townie' Peter and don't understand country sports >:-) Cheers, Colin. Thats true, I don't know much about foxes. Its the mentality of people who kill for pleasure I find so disturbing >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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