nightrider Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 An annual wartime festival in Ramsbottom Bury held by the East Lancs railways caused uproar with the local Bury Jewish community, apart from all the period vehicles and re-enactors dressed as British and American soldiers there were also people dressed as nazis with all the regalia, Swastikas and deaths head emblems etc, one rather large guy was dressed up as a Herman Goring look alike. A Jewish couple who attended the festival was upset when one of the 'actors' asked them to consider dressing up as refugees to 'add another dimension to the experience' they asked them to wear a yellow star of David, carry battered suitcases and 'look poor'. Discuss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Why not?, it has to be realistic and it is historical. Any objections should be treated as political correctness gone mad. After all there are re-enactments of all sorts of wars etc all over the country. What about cowboys and indians?, they didn't get much of a deal did they?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 peter - 2012-06-06 8:18 PM Why not?, it has to be realistic and it is historical. Any objections should be treated as political correctness gone mad. After all there are re-enactments of all sorts of wars etc all over the country. What about cowboys and indians?, they didn't get much of a deal did they?. Every night of the week you can see programmes on TV about the war, Nazis and the death camps, someone wrote up to a national newspaper as to why the programmes feature so much? and the answer given was that world Jewery paid for them to be featured on TV so that the persecution of the Jews would never be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 it was perhaps a tad untactful to ask a Jewish couple to role play Holocaust victims and I am not too sure how that fits in with a British Railway. But people love to dress up in uniforms, just look at the Royals and the more distasteful the better it seems. Bad taste did not stop Prince Harry wearing an SS uniform. Of couse maybe Bury has a love affair with Fascism on the quiet. I certainly do not know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Are you two really that insensitive you cannot see why it caused and outrage. How stupid and ignorant does one have to be! edit - you two being the obvious 1st two posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Brambles - 2012-06-06 8:34 PM Are you two really that insensitive you cannot see why it caused and outrage. How stupid and ignorant does one have to be! edit - you two being the obvious 1st two posts. I agree, although I wouldn't have quite put it that way! It is one thing for people to want to do this of their own voluation - to turn to someone because of their 'creed' and button hole them in this way is bad enough, but what the 'actor' idiot doesn't appear to have thought through at all is what their family history is and how it was affected by the holocaust - it is very, very likely that their relations were in some way affected and that they lost family because of it. To try to put it in perspective, would he have asked an English (native) couple to dress up in tattered clothes etc and pretend to be in a Japanese prisoner of war camp if they had lost a family member who was actually there? I hope the 'idiot actor' had the decency to apologise for his appaulling lack of thought. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 What a load of twaddle. A lot of people were affected by the first world war, as millions were slaughtered in the trenches. But their descendants don't go bleating to the bbc or whoever is dramatising these incidents. War is terrible and cruel, it always has been. But by educating people to what goes on is to hopefully learn from history, or we are bound to repeat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 For my own 1p worth :D............can't afford 2p 8-)..........but Istory is one of my favourite subjects......and how we repeat our mistakes as a human race.....especially since some dumb bugger invented religion......hence why the jews get a kicking on a regular basis...........but they're on a downer at the moment as Christians are being out bred by Muslims :-|........................Atheist's have nothing to worry about if you keep your head down and pretend to belong to who ever is the local god *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Dave225 - 2012-06-06 8:33 PM it was perhaps a tad untactful to ask a Jewish couple to role play Holocaust victims and I am not too sure how that fits in with a British Railway. But people love to dress up in uniforms, just look at the Royals and the more distasteful the better it seems. Bad taste did not stop Prince Harry wearing an SS uniform. Of couse maybe Bury has a love affair with Fascism on the quiet. I certainly do not know. The East Lancs railway has nothing to do with British Rail it is a private steam railway run by enthusiasts and has had a wartime theme for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Brambles - 2012-06-06 8:34 PM Are you two really that insensitive you cannot see why it caused and outrage. How stupid and ignorant does one have to be! edit - you two being the obvious 1st two posts. As I posted the original post, are you saying that I am stupid and ignorant? Having been born and bred in a predominantly Jewish area of north Manchester and where I still live I would say I know a hell of a lot more about Jewish customs and culture than you will know, so dont dare to call me stupid and ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 In a nutshell, anyone who cannot see what happened at this festival and realise it was insensitive and stupid is lacking a tad common sense and common decency. If you were indeed brought up in a Jewish community, I cannot believe you do not see it this way. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Brambles - 2012-06-07 9:38 AM In a nutshell, anyone who cannot see what happened at this festival and realise it was insensitive and stupid is lacking a tad common sense and common decency. If you were indeed brought up in a Jewish community, I cannot believe you do not see it this way. Jon Like any decent minded person I was appalled, not so much at the German uniforms but the emblems and insignia, over the years I have spoken to many holocaust survivers and heard their tales of horror at first hand, not from newspaper articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Brambles - 2012-06-07 9:38 AM In a nutshell, anyone who cannot see what happened at this festival and realise it was insensitive and stupid is lacking a tad common sense and common decency. If you were indeed brought up in a Jewish community, I cannot believe you do not see it this way. Jon Israelis appear not to be able to see a problem with their ethnic cleansing of Palestinians 8-)......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerC Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Seems to me the 'actor' was either ignorant of the Holocaust or just downright ignorant/thick/thoughtless. Whatever the reason he was just 'wrong'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 When the "Jewish " couple were asked to take part was it obvious they were Jewish , if so then i understand why they were upset . If it was not obvious they were Jewish then I do not see the problem . We have all watched films on the holocaust and seen actors of all faiths portraying Jewish victims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-06-07 10:16 AM Brambles - 2012-06-07 9:38 AM In a nutshell, anyone who cannot see what happened at this festival and realise it was insensitive and stupid is lacking a tad common sense and common decency. If you were indeed brought up in a Jewish community, I cannot believe you do not see it this way. Jon Israelis appear not to be able to see a problem with their ethnic cleansing of Palestinians 8-)......... Don't do as I do, do as I say :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 antony1969 - 2012-06-07 5:30 PM When the "Jewish " couple were asked to take part was it obvious they were Jewish , if so then i understand why they were upset . If it was not obvious they were Jewish then I do not see the problem . We have all watched films on the holocaust and seen actors of all faiths portraying Jewish victims Spot on Antony. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 People still re-enact certain events that have taken place throughout our (all races and creeds) history, It is part of pageantry and showing off (we were better than you mentality) Facts and myths combined. From what I've read in the local rag. 1) The Jewish couple just looked like any other couple, so they were not singled out apparently 2) They would have known that people would have been dressing up as Germans, they were fairly local and this event has been happening for a few years now and is well advertised. 3) When these (actors) dress up in the Nazi uniforms some of their personality's change, some, but not all, were strutting about all over the place, They are like Jekyll & Hyde. 4)You never see them dressing up as Japanese officers or soldiers. To me, there always seems a touch of evil that goes with a Nazi uniform and the swastika. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 nowtelse2do - 2012-06-08 7:54 PM 4)You never see them dressing up as Japanese officers or soldiers. It was known as the forgotten war :-S.................Yet our best friends Mother will still not buy anything knowingly from Japan..........fortunately our friends have convinced her Sumsung etc are made in Taiwan 8-).......they probably are now :D............. I do think the our Jewish neigbours peddle outrage at the slightest thing whilst there so called homeland carry on quietly doing much worse to the Palestinians *-).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Latest development to encourage peace and tranquility in the area Dave is to start building more houses on the West Bank. (Don't think that's Barclay's) although them and the Saudis might be financing it. :D Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 nowtelse2do - 2012-06-08 8:23 PM Latest development to encourage peace and tranquility in the area Dave is to start building more houses on the West Bank. (Don't think that's Barclay's) although them and the Saudis might be financing it. :D Dave Bit like the Golan Heights then *-)........part of their security line covered in 41 housing estates :D Doubt I'll sell any pelmets or pouffes in Israel now :D........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-06-08 9:25 PM Doubt I'll sell any pelmets or pouffes in Israel now :D........... What you need Dave is a good Jewish trading name.............El Pel Pouff' inc. doesn't sound to bad (lol) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 nowtelse2do - 2012-06-08 9:43 PM pelmetman - 2012-06-08 9:25 PM Doubt I'll sell any pelmets or pouffes in Israel now :D........... What you need Dave is a good Jewish trading name.............El Pel Pouff' inc. doesn't sound to bad (lol) Dave Fortunately being an idle oike.......I don't need the trade :D..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 nowtelse2do - 2012-06-08 7:54 PM People still re-enact certain events that have taken place throughout our (all races and creeds) history, It is part of pageantry and showing off (we were better than you mentality) Facts and myths combined. From what I've read in the local rag. 1) The Jewish couple just looked like any other couple, so they were not singled out apparently 2) They would have known that people would have been dressing up as Germans, they were fairly local and this event has been happening for a few years now and is well advertised. 3) When these (actors) dress up in the Nazi uniforms some of their personality's change, some, but not all, were strutting about all over the place, They are like Jekyll & Hyde. 4)You never see them dressing up as Japanese officers or soldiers. To me, there always seems a touch of evil that goes with a Nazi uniform and the swastika. Dave You never see people dressing as Jap officers or soldiers probably because the Japs are hated more than the Germans, I hate the Japs with a zeal, Having watched my dad die in 1949 as a direct result of his treatment at the hands of the Japs while he was a POW. As for the Jewish couple Merton Paul and his wife who you say looked just like any other couple, not so, they were singled out because they were Jewish you can tell a Jewish person from a mile away. of the 10,000 people who attended this even there was only one complaint and that was from Merton Paul, Gentile events such as this are not usually patronised by Jews, so did Merton paul have an agenda? To purposely complain about the German influence? The war is well and truly over so let sleeping dogs lie, prior to and during the last war the Germans were of the opinion that they were the master race the Jews were and still are of the opinion that they are the chosen race/people so IMO it was inevitable that there would be a clash of ideology which resulted in the Shoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 RogerC - 2012-06-07 10:46 AM Seems to me the 'actor' was either ignorant of the Holocaust or just downright ignorant/thick/thoughtless. Whatever the reason he was just 'wrong'. I think Roger has hit the nail on the head here. From my experience I have bumped up against a few of the people that like to "dress-up" at such events and frankly -------------- I was not impressed. I am a Land Rover nut and have gone to numerous Land Rover Events over the years - some have a military section as Land Rover have produced all sorts of military derivatives - from the 101 to the "Pink Panthers". To see fat unfit individuals dressing up as soldiers and parading around the campsite at night in their militarised vehicles was more than a bit strange - it was downright embarrasing. That said - I also say "each to his own". I do not believe that some live in "our world" but one that their "dressing up" fantasy creates. However, when you speak to these "characters" I found they were total anoraks - they knew everything and everythging about their vehicles and what they did or were capable of. The fact that it was a military vehicle capable of destruction and killing was not something these "anoraks" seemed to have any empathy for - despite their obsessive understanding of the vehicle itself. So to me - the Jewish couple being asked to take part in the way that they seemed to have been asked is shockingly crass. But having, I think, spoken to some of the "dressing up types" - it does not surprise me as all these anoraks want is authenticity. And so they would see little wrong in getting a "real Jew" to wear a Star of David and to look "poor". I do not condone what they did - but I do not think it was due to anything more than an odd desire for fantasy play and to make it as realistic as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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