sean.clarke Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi, thinking ahead we suspect that we will be wanting some form of transport to accompany our MH on certain excursions. Towing a full on trailer doesn't really appeal to me, otherwise I would probably have looked at a caravan, also push bikes aren't really our thing. So, thinking of a scooter - I have read some of your blogs/travel reports and it appears some of you guys really reccomend them. Looking at something like a Vespa 300 or SportCity 300 - both of which are about 140-150Kg. I have seen mixed reports on having a scooter rack mounted on the towbar - even seen a supplier stating max weight to be 100Kg whilst showing photo's of 150KG bikes and also seen some advertised for bikes up to 170Kg. Like I said, I really don't want the hassle of a trailer, I have seen the Ezetow trailer, and yes that does look like it would be ideal, but for £1200 I don't think it would be worth it for the times we would use it + you have additional storage space etc. Do any of you peeps have bikes/scooters on some form of rack that is around that weight? The other option is to look at the 125's, but we are both on the erm.... "largish" side - although I think it would cope, I do think it would struggle. Also I notice a 125 Vespa comes in around 120-130Kg, so not "that" much lighter in comparison. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deemac57 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Sean, I have just returned from 3 months in Spain, Portugal and France and towed a transverse trailer we bought from Armitages in Yorkshire. We carry a Honda SH125 which is about 135kg and have no problems. Before getting the scooter I investigated the option of fitting a rack, but found that there was no way of doing this with any decent scooter without overloading the rear axle. You may get away with it on a panel van conversion which has little overhang, but most vans in the 6.5 to 7 metre range have an overhang, or on a large tag axle van with an uprated chassis. You also need to be careful about fitting a towbar, the rear structure on many vans is intended only to support the structure above it and it is not possible just to bolt a tow hitch on to it. To stay legal I had to replace the rear support structure (losing some payload in the process) The plus point for a short trailer is that our 6.9 metre Burstner fits on most aire spaces in France. The downside is that you pay extra on the ferry and increase fuel consumption by about 2mpg. It is also difficult to reverse, but is light enough to manhandle when needed. If you want to go for a 300cc scooter the only way you can do it is with a normal motorcycle trailer. You will see large scooters fitted to rear racks and even jammed into garages, but all are grossly overloaded and possibly dangerous to drive. That said, having a scooter does really free you up, and nlike the UK, most continental drivers are aware of and considerate to scooter riders, so it feels much safer than riding in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean.clarke Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 I have (will have) a large tag axle so I envisige I will be under capcity. I just don't won't the worry of reversing issues - the size of the van will be enough for me to worry about!! 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 buy a van with rear garage with enough space and weight capacity to carry one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean.clarke Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-06-25 2:22 PM buy a van with rear garage with enough space and weight capacity to carry one You're so funny - wish I would have thought of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 sean.clarke - 2012-06-25 4:35 PM JudgeMental - 2012-06-25 2:22 PM buy a van with rear garage with enough space and weight capacity to carry one You're so funny - wish I would have thought of that! Funny.......FUNNY!.....I can assure you if you had the misfortune of appearing in front of moi you would find the experience far from FUNNY! Damn your eyes Sir! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 We have been carrying a scooter on a rear rack for over five years now and would not be without it. Our van is a coachbuilt only 5.9 mtrs long and all is within the weight limits. Lots will tell you this cannot be done without ever trying, ignore them, but take the trouble to work things out. You will probably have to manage with a 125cc but ours has carried us in the alps and pyrennees no problem, if a bit slow at times. We have a 125cc Honda Innova which weighs 105kg, not ideal but a whole lot better than local transport or bikes if you want to get around, we use ours for up to around 30 miles around a site, ideal for us. Like you could not bother with a trailor, buy a caravan if you want to tow. We have considered the Hydratrail but the rear swing was to much but the only answer if you wish for a bigger bike and certainly better than towing something on a trailor. You do need to check all your weights though and get a good company to look at the van for the tow bar but it can be worked out on most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddies104 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi Just another option ......if you are only thinking of driving say upto 15 miles from the van, and that is Electric bikes, as they can only weigh around 20kg each... 1 charge will do upto 30 miles and can be driven as a normal bike also... We love ours Derek & Pauline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Caddies104 - 2012-06-25 5:27 PM Hi Just another option ......if you are only thinking of driving say upto 15 miles from the van, and that is Electric bikes, as they can only weigh around 20kg each... 1 charge will do upto 30 miles and can be driven as a normal bike also... We love ours Derek & Pauline And the best option in my opinion...Cycling through olive groves in complete silence...Arrive at nice restaurant for lunch. An aperitif and bottle of wine (or two) with meal, then nice ride home working of some calories, with no worries regards hills or drink driving :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-06-25 5:45 PM And the best option in my opinion...Cycling through olive groves in complete silence...Arrive at nice restaurant for lunch. An aperitif and bottle of wine (or two) with meal, then nice ride home working of some calories, with no worries regards hills or drink driving :-D .....I hesitate to try to educate M'lud on matters of law, but the following makes interesting reading on this matter: http://ukcyclerules.com/2011/07/12/electric-bike-drinking-offences/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean.clarke Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Horses for courses - love the idea of the bikes, especially the electric ones, but my wife is not a confident rider and has arthritis in her knees - an electric tandem would fit the bill (although still not as flexible for us as a scooter), but I think a tandem is getting a bit silly. The hydra trail looked a bit wobbly - also, I notice some of the photos on their website they show big bikes on racks without the wheel! Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not sure how much you both weigh but you will be suprised how powerful some of these little bikes are. Ours is a 100cc Peugeot speedfight 2, 2 stroke and will hit 60 mph on a good day but it's terrifying! Nice pottering around at 40-45. It's been up to 7500 ft in the Pyrenees before the road ran out and became a ski slope. Get a rack that is fitted to the chassis. Armitage did ours and it's superb. Solid as a rock and will take 200kg. The van however won't and is near the limit with the Peugeot on which is just 95kg. They are up norf though but I think watlings do something similar darn south. There is a good calculator if you google practical Motorhome scooter rack. The overhang as many have stated is the main issue but most tags should be ok. For definate it is the way to go. We wouldn't be without ours. Currently just arrived in the Austrian Tirol and looking forward to getting up some hills. All be it at 20mph! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Robinhood - 2012-06-25 5:54 PM JudgeMental - 2012-06-25 5:45 PM And the best option in my opinion...Cycling through olive groves in complete silence...Arrive at nice restaurant for lunch. An aperitif and bottle of wine (or two) with meal, then nice ride home working of some calories, with no worries regards hills or drink driving :-D .....I hesitate to try to educate M'lud on matters of law, but the following makes interesting reading on this matter: http://ukcyclerules.com/2011/07/12/electric-bike-drinking-offences/ whose talking about being reckless or indeed legless.....a digestive and half bottle of wine tops or a few beers. the point being you can relax! you don't really have to worry, but you obviously have to be sensible....a drunk pedestrian could be as equally culpable....And i've had a few of them lashed and strung up in my time! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-06-25 6:32 PM whose talking about being reckless or indeed legless.....a digestive and half bottle of wine tops.... .....methinks the defendant has altered his testimony! ;-) (...and I suspect that the above would still be enough to take you over the limit, which the article proposes should apply in any of the legal circumstances, and in the worse of the two scenarios, for an e-bike the same penalties as riding a motor-bike or driving a car could be applied, up to and including disqualification). I would be careful if I were you! (whether a half-bottle or two!) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolly1965 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 how about an electric scooter? http://www.northwestpoweredcyclecentre.co.uk/show%20electric.aspx?make=Sakura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Robinhood - 2012-06-25 6:51 PM JudgeMental - 2012-06-25 6:32 PM whose talking about being reckless or indeed legless.....a digestive and half bottle of wine tops.... .....methinks the defendant has altered his testimony! ;-) (...and I suspect that the above would still be enough to take you over the limit, which the article proposes should apply in any of the legal circumstances, and in the worse of the two scenarios, for an e-bike the same penalties as riding a motor-bike or driving a car could be applied, up to and including disqualification). I would be careful if I were you! (whether a half-bottle or two!) ;-) It wont and dont happen, unless all over the place....Over what limit? there is NO LIMIT. A legal e bike is not a motorized vehicle, and is classed the same a a push bike in law. And yes you can be "drunk in charge" and fined but how likely is that....they cant take your license of you riding a bike, so an e bike no different 8-) relax and enjoy the freedom mon! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi If you are, convinced that 2 wheel transport is best for your purposes, then please, seriously consider a PROPER Motorcycle. I have watched many "scooters" over the years, especially from the cab of an HGV!!. I am am convinced that they are inherently unstable. a light breeze and they wobble all over the road. IF you look at them the centre of gravity is far above the centre of the wheels (small wheels) which IF it was a vessel would make it (more) liable to a capsize!! there is no way IMHO that you can safely carry the mass of 2 persons plus any "luggage" AND maintain a stable vehicle. At the very least a "proper" motorcycle has a better balance AND as you sit "astride" the machine is (again IMHO) very much more stable and by definition under more control. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-06-25 7:35 PM Robinhood - 2012-06-25 6:51 PM JudgeMental - 2012-06-25 6:32 PM whose talking about being reckless or indeed legless.....a digestive and half bottle of wine tops.... .....methinks the defendant has altered his testimony! ;-) (...and I suspect that the above would still be enough to take you over the limit, which the article proposes should apply in any of the legal circumstances, and in the worse of the two scenarios, for an e-bike the same penalties as riding a motor-bike or driving a car could be applied, up to and including disqualification). I would be careful if I were you! (whether a half-bottle or two!) ;-) It wont and dont happen, unless all over the place....Over what limit? there is NO LIMIT. A legal e bike is not a motorized vehicle, and is classed the same a a push bike in law. And yes you can be "drunk in charge" and fined but how likely is that....they cant take your license of you riding a bike, so an e bike no different 8-) relax and enjoy the freedom mon! :-D .... but if you injure yourself you are unlikely to be covered on your holiday insurance and are more likely to be injured by someone else as you wobble all over .... Any form of transport where you are 'in charge' should not be used when under the influence of alcohol, especially if you are over the legal limit. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-06-25 7:35 PM It wont and dont happen, unless all over the place....Over what limit? there is NO LIMIT. A legal e bike is not a motorized vehicle, and is classed the same a a push bike in law. And yes you can be "drunk in charge" and fined but how likely is that....they cant take your license of you riding a bike, so an e bike no different 8-) relax and enjoy the freedom mon! :-D ....I think you miss the thrust of the originally referenced article, which is a well-argued case (by, I think, a Barrister) that drink-drive laws clearly should (and do) apply to e-bikes. I can follow enough of his argument (and reference enough of the statute law) to think that he puts forward a very good legal case - and I for one wouldn't like to test it (at least not as a defendant). :-S e-bikes in the UK are covered by their own legislation (The Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles Regulations 1983), and are definitely not classed the same as a push-bike in law. (For instance, a minimum age limit of 14 applies to the riding of an e-bike). These regulations certainly do set out that e-bikes (within the defined legal parameters) should not be considered as "motor vehicles" (largely in the context of the Road Traffic Regulation Act, thus meaning that they do not have to have to be taxed, insured, etc.) Unfortunately, the manner in which this is achieved through the above regulations (by reference as a "mechanically propelled vehicle" which should not be considered as a "motor vehicle"), firmly places legal e-bikes in that category of a "mechanically propelled vehicle". (This is the critical point being made, as the same cannot be said of an ordinary push bike) There are two possible offences that can be pursued under the Road Traffic Act for drink-driving: 1. It is an offence for a person to drive or attempt to drive a motor vehicle on a road or other public place with excess alcohol in his breath, blood or urine as evidenced by a certificate of analysis or printout 2. It is an offence for a person to drive or attempt to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place while unfit to drive through drink or drugs ....both carry exactly the same potential penalties - £5000 fine/6 Months Prison, obligatory ban, etc. In the case of an e-bike, the first of the two most definitely cannot be pursued (since they are defined in law as not being motor vehicles) BUT the very act of legal definition of them as not being "motor vehicles" defines them as "mechanically propelled vehicles", so 2 most definitely does apply, and can be pursued. The article also sets out the law under which an e-bike rider can and cannot be compelled to give a specimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 sean.clarke - 2012-06-25 6:08 PM Horses for courses - love the idea of the bikes, especially the electric ones, but my wife is not a confident rider and has arthritis in her knees - an electric tandem would fit the bill (although still not as flexible for us as a scooter), but I think a tandem is getting a bit silly. The hydra trail looked a bit wobbly - also, I notice some of the photos on their website they show big bikes on racks without the wheel! Cheers. The hydratrail is much changed now and they do a rack without wheels as well. The EZetow I believe is no longer made. Electric bikes are fine but depends what you want, most of the places we go doubt an electric bike would cope, fine on the flat and mild hills but stick with what you want do not let others put you offf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 PeteH - 2012-06-25 9:10 PM Hi If you are, convinced that 2 wheel transport is best for your purposes, then please, seriously consider a PROPER Motorcycle. I have watched many "scooters" over the years, especially from the cab of an HGV!!. I am am convinced that they are inherently unstable. a light breeze and they wobble all over the road. IF you look at them the centre of gravity is far above the centre of the wheels (small wheels) which IF it was a vessel would make it (more) liable to a capsize!! there is no way IMHO that you can safely carry the mass of 2 persons plus any "luggage" AND maintain a stable vehicle. At the very least a "proper" motorcycle has a better balance AND as you sit "astride" the machine is (again IMHO) very much more stable and by definition under more control. Pete I have a fairly proper motorcycle as you call it, Susuki Bandit 1250, and a scooter is fine. Our 125cc has full size wheels, not in the least unstable, why would it be, if they wobble would suggest the rider is to blame, cannot help that. They are great especially in towns when parking is a problem with the van. Ride the scooter in park anywhere as the French do. Rider skills are another subject and down to the individual. Do you think you ride a scooter side saddle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean.clarke Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-06-25 9:38 PM The hydratrail is much changed now and they do a rack without wheels as well. The EZetow I believe is no longer made. Electric bikes are fine but depends what you want, most of the places we go doubt an electric bike would cope, fine on the flat and mild hills but stick with what you want do not let others put you off If they do the rack without the wheels (which sounds ideal) I'd be interested to know how the get the increased weight carrying capacity - perhaps it's how someone here suggested, that they have a bracket made, like I said, the van is a tag axle on I should have oodles of spare capacity when we take the type of trips where we will bring the scooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi sean Payloads were one of the seminars at the Peterborough Show "KNOW YOUR PAYLOAD: Gareth Marsh of SvTech and Barry Norris" Use this link & scroll down to the SV Tech presentation slides. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/Motorhomes/Features/Editorial/National-Motorhome-Show-2012-seminars/_ch1_ft780_pg1 SVTech also have a weight distribution calculator on their website, which should help you determine what weight you can put on the back of your Motorhome (subject to any TowBar weight restriction) http://www.svtech.co.uk/lda/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 sean.clarke - 2012-06-25 9:53 PM rupert123 - 2012-06-25 9:38 PM The hydratrail is much changed now and they do a rack without wheels as well. The EZetow I believe is no longer made. Electric bikes are fine but depends what you want, most of the places we go doubt an electric bike would cope, fine on the flat and mild hills but stick with what you want do not let others put you off If they do the rack without the wheels (which sounds ideal) I'd be interested to know how the get the increased weight carrying capacity - perhaps it's how someone here suggested, that they have a bracket made, like I said, the van is a tag axle on I should have oodles of spare capacity when we take the type of trips where we will bring the scooter. Sorry you misunderstand. The rack without wheels will not take the weight, suggest you contact them. The people Barry suggested are probably best, very helpfull, I saw a bloke with a 600cc scooter on the back in Bruges last year, not sure how legal it all was but looked ok, big van though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi,Have a look at the Honda S Wing 125,,,(not silver wing) fully auto, so easy to ride, cruse around 50MPH two up, all day,maybe a little heavy 150Kg,,,,have a lookRegards,Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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