Barclays

[Syd]

 

Will this be the year that Barclays Bank goes into liquidation

[Guest Tracker]

None of this is new.

 

The banks have been lying, cheating and manipulating for as many years as I can remember.

 

They have always taken our money and made money with it but failed to share any of this profit with their customers under the excuse of 'costs' of running the accounts. Bulls**t!!

 

When I worked for the Prudential in the 70s and 80s it was common for life and pension direct debits to mysteriously stop with the banks - mainly TSB and Barclays at that time - blaming the Pru and when the customer contacted them to find out why they would be 'sold' the banks policy in place of ours - very often a longer term higher commission paying product and very often totally unsuitable.

 

Bloody banks - I hate 'em all - always have - always will!!

 

If they were not out to get me I would not need to be paranoid!!

[Syd]

 

Agree'd, not new but posibly this is going to turn out BIG now that the yanks are queuing up to sue.

 

The Yanks today the world tomorrow (lol)

[CliveH]

All very true - and if there is one smarmy politician that is doing his damndest to distance himself from what HE DID to allow the Banks to behave in the appalling way they have done it is Ed Balls!

 

What a smarmy piece of lying cr@p he is!!!!!!!!!!

 

He sucked up to the banks when it was all going wrong for Gordon Brown and this, together with the PPI debacle and all the other dodgy practices that the "light regulation" the banks asked for and got under Balls and Brown leave a clear and direct audit trail straight back to them.

 

His bleating about an enquiry is so much hot air because should a full enquiry actually take place - his role and that of Browns would most likely be the end of his career!

 

Anyway - a Barclays break-up is being openly talked about - but it is just talk:-

 

.......................................

 

 

Will LIBOR scandal lead to Barclays break-up?

02 Jul 2012 | 14:44

Dan Jones - Investment Week

Categories: UK

Topics: Barclays | Libor | Fsa

 

Analysts have suggested the fallout from the LIBOR price-fixing scandal may ultimately lead to significant asset disposals or even a break-up of the bank.

 

 

Barclays chairman Marcus Agius resigned this morning following the bank's cumulative £290m fine for manipulating its LIBOR submissions, saying "the buck stops with me".

 

 

But chief executive Bob Diamond remains under intense pressure ahead of an appearance in front of the Treasury Select Committee on Wednesday, and some brokers believe he will soon suffer the same fate as Agius.

 

"Pressure is likely to remain on CEO Diamond to also resign in our view, since he was head of the BarCap division during most of the relevant period 2007-10 and is individually the main focus of political and media scrutiny," said Liberum Capital's Cormac Leech.

 

"The transition to a new CEO is likely to result in some kitchen sinking -perhaps £2-3bn- of existing credit risk assets," he added.

 

Not all are convinced, however. Investec Securities' Ian Gordon said Diamond is "going nowhere", and is focused on a shrinking of Barclays cost base rather than its assets.

 

"We urge investors to back Bob, and take full advantage of Barclays' recent share price underperformance. Bob is going nowhere. But we also expect (and demand) more radical action to address a bloated BarCap cost base to get closer to the Group's unrealistic return on equity aspirations," Gordon said.

 

Aside from Diamond, the main focus of analysts' attention is the litigation risks. Here, too, the picture is mixed.

 

Deutsche Bank said material future costs cannot be ruled out but has "been unable to gain clarity on the potential timing and magnitude of future claims".

 

Deutsche has downgraded Barclays from buy to hold, retaining its target price of 295p. Liberum, which rates Barclays as a hold with a target price of 185p, estimates the cost of potential litigation from Barclays' own clients could be over £5-6bn net of tax.

 

Investec's Gordon said these forecasts "considerably overstate" the hit to Barclays, given the likelihood of shared culpability over LIBOR fixing and the difficulty in proving whether its manipulations were "successful".

 

Cannaccord Genuity says the potential losses are "impossible to quantify at this stage", but notes existing civil complaints in the US have been strengthened by the FSA's action. The broker rates Barclays as a buy with a target price of 280p, but is wary of the game-changing potential of the LIBOR investigation.

 

"Major litigation/compensation shocks in other industries have, in a number of cases, led to break ups/demergers. Tobacco litigation in the late 1990s and News Corp/phone hacking in 2011/12 have both resulted in significant changes to the structure of companies," said Canaccord's Gareth Hunt.

 

"Shareholders may ultimately seek to de-merge certain "clean" assets in the event litigation risks looks as if they will become protracted."

 

Given the value placed on Barclays' African retail business Absa (£4.4bn), and the return on equity generated by its UK retail (15%) and Barclaycard (17%) franchises, Hunt suggests BarCap appears to be contributing "zero" to Barclays' £19.9bn market capitalisation.

 

"While the involvement of group treasury in LIBOR setting means LIBOR litigation cannot simply be bracketed as a BarCap issue and litigation risks must first be quantified, we believe shareholders will ultimately need to examine how they protect value," he concluded.

 

Barclays shares were up 3% at 168p in early afternoon trading, having fallen 19% last week as news of the fine emerged.

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Anyone taking bets whether any of these fraud merchants will get their collars felt *-).................I'm starting feel some sympathy for the rioters >:-)

 

One rule for the rich and one for the poor?............business as usual then *-)

[CliveH]

Have to say I did not expect him to resign just yet.

 

Could indicate he knew what was going on rather than being in the dark as he initially indicated.

 

Interesting.

 

Edit

 

This quote is even more interesting from one of the techy updates:-

 

"

Diamond is due to speak to MPs tomorrow about the LIBOR scandal, with reports suggesting he is preparing to reveal the extent to which the authorities knew about banks' manipulation of the rate at which they borrowed. "

 

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

And another allegedly diamond geezer bites the dust!

 

But we don't know his departure terms do we and no doubt he will, like all the others, magically reappear shortly in a new role equally overpaid.

[Robinhood]

So........Diamonds aren't forever.

 

Seems to me he has been neatly outperformed in the "Machiavellian Stakes" by Marcus Agius.

 

("It wasn't my responsibility.......but there really was something very wrong going on.........as no-one who was really accountable has decided to fall on their sword, I suppose I must.........but you know, chaps, you really should be looking at the guy(s) who were in day-to-day control" might be a resonable precis of his resignation).

 

Smart move!

[Syd]

 

I for one cannot wait until tomorrow, how much will bob reveal, suppose it depends on how much severance pay they have agreed to give him *-)

 

May I be the first to wish Barclays nothing but ill and hope that it get's much worse for them >:-) >:-)

[Guest Tracker]

Unless you bought several thousand of their shares when they were 30p!

[CliveH]

Don't wish too much "ill" on Barclays as a company as it is them with their subsidiary VISA that run most of the electronic financial transactions. If that goes tits up then the minor problem that Nat West and RBS had a week or so ago will seem very small beer indeed.

[nowtelse2do]

It's looking more & more like a Barclaygate......the fan will hit the s**t

 

Dave

 

Will have to dig the MasterCard out Clive.....cough....splutter.....bloody dust everywhere :-D

[CliveH]

Syd - 2012-07-03 10:31 AM

 

 

I for one cannot wait until tomorrow, how much will bob reveal, suppose it depends on how much severance pay they have agreed to give him *-)

 

May I be the first to wish Barclays nothing but ill and hope that it get's much worse for them >:-) >:-)

 

We are getting good info that a whistleblower flagged up to the authorities (the FSA) that the banks were manipulating the LIBOR back in 2006. The thought is that with the regulator being "in the loop", the Banks felt it was OK to continue. Only when the Coalition came in and gave notice to the FSA (the tripartite nature of the FSA is being broken up) and got the new FCA bit to review past decisions did this all come out.

 

Hence the word that Diamond is about to let rip and wanted to be a free agent to do so.

 

Could all be wishful thinking - but should be interesting.

[pepe63xnotuse]

I don't for one minute pretend to understand all this high level finance malarky...

..but I am getting tired of all this hypocrisy ...?!

What with MPs and those in the know etc..all "..appalled!...shocked...!"

Yeah right! *-)

 

As for this whole "banking/debt crisis" in general..

Well,it's funny how any "shady" conduct only becomes an issue when people *lose* money,isn't it... *-)

 

...if we're honest,nobody was keen on asking questions or complaining when the "dodgy practices" of these "spivs",meant that their investments were reaping unsustainable(unrealistic!) rewards were they?...

 

...or that they were able to get credit beyond their means(thus enabling them "increase their property portfolios"..*-) )...

 

..it's a bit like estate agents...everyone likes to give them grief and have a pop at 'em...but at the same time,no one ever objects when they grossly inflate the value their *house... !

(*sorry.."property"!... *-) )

 

Just read this back..it it *sounds* like I'm stickin' up for "bankers"..?!? 8-) (lol)

[Robinhood]

CliveH - 2012-07-03 11:34 AM

 

Don't wish too much "ill" on Barclays as a company as it is them with their subsidiary VISA that run most of the electronic financial transactions. If that goes tits up then the minor problem that Nat West and RBS had a week or so ago will seem very small beer indeed.

 

AFAIK, the Visa system in Europe (as opposed to the States), is essentially run by a combination of Visa Europe, and whoever issued your Visa card.

 

Visa Europe is an (independent and incorporated) membership organisation which provides the fundamental process, systems and transmission capabilities to allow for the use of a Visa card.

 

(i.e. any financial institution issuing a Visa card will become a member, and it's systems will link the request from the Visa "outlet" to the issuing bank's processing systems).

 

Barclays (since Barclaycard took on Visa badging) will certainly be a member of this organisation, but I doubt very much whether it has any part whatsoever in processing transactions on my (non-Barclays) Visa card.

 

 

[nowtelse2do]

 

I'll put the MasterCard back then...!! (lol) (lol) Will save it for next time over in Germany.

 

Dave

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

This article reflects my views quite well. See what you think. http://tinyurl.com/7gu9ctn

[CliveH]

What an excellent article Brian - have to say the analogy with the banks and the church is one that i see as fitting very well indeed.

[Brian Kirby]

Don't know the inner workings of either, but it struck a chord with me based on my own experience of a Plc, and also of those of others in similar positions to whom I have spoken.

 

This kind of nods and winks, no names no pack drill, encouragement to stray beyond the normally accepted bounds of decency (or whatever phrase you prefer!) seems to pervade a far wider sphere than just church and banks. It has crept into many spheres of business, and more, and if it is not brought under control I think will get the UK a reputation as a place where trust is at a premium. IMO, MP's expenses were just another flavour of the same attitude. Ditto GSK's current little "problem" in the US. To say nothing of numerous "mis-selling" scandals over the years.

 

The usual response of managements, when such misdeeds are exposed, is to deny all knowledge and ceremonially sack or discipline the miscreants as being an atypical rogue element. I'm afraid I've become very cynical about such claims. I thought he captured this culture rather well. Glad you enjoyed it.

[nowtelse2do]

Agreed Brian, excellent article. I also think that this should also apply to ours and other Government's.

 

I think a lot of these practices come from the US where company 'bonding' culture's originate. We had one at my last place of employment, lots of shouting of yeh's and high fives and knuckle touching. I walked out then had to explain myself to three senior managers the day after. I replied with just four word's, "I retire this year," they forgot I was retiring early :-D

 

Dave

[Guest pelmetman]

I hear he'll walk away with about 20 odd million *-)..................I can see the title of his autobiography already :D..............."How to rob a bank...........legally" *-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2012-07-03 2:54 PM

 

This article reflects my views quite well. See what you think. http://tinyurl.com/7gu9ctn

 

It was ever thus *-).............and it wont change.........we will have a pantomime inquiry of sorts, they'll all be told....."Your very naughty boys".........they'll walk off pockets bulging with loot.........and that'll be it *-)

 

 

[flicka]

Brian

Thanks for that link, What an excellent article by O'Toole.

If he had sat down for a month he could not have found better words so appropriate to this latest debacle..

[Guest pelmetman]

First rule of s**t hitting the fan ;-)...........everyone gets covered :D...........

 

Barclays has revealed how its most senior executives became embroiled in the Libor rate-fixing scandal.

 

The bank has disclosed details of a phone call between former boss Bob Diamond and the deputy governor of the Bank of England, Paul Tucker, in 2008.

 

Mr Tucker told Mr Diamond that Barclays' Libor submission did not always need to be as high as it was.

 

Barclays said Mr Diamond did not view this as an instruction, but another executive, Jerry del Missier, did.

 

Earlier on Tuesday, the rate-rigging scandal forced the resignations of Mr Diamond and Mr del Missier, the chief operating officer.

 

Mr Diamond is due to appear before the Treasury Committee on Wednesday, where he is expected to expand on conversations with the Bank of England over the Libor issue.

 

In fresh evidence posted on Barclays' website, the bank disclosed a conversation between Mr Diamond and Mr Tucker on 29 October 2008.

 

An internal memo sent by Mr Diamond to other Barclays executives said: "Further to our last call, Mr Tucker reiterated that he had received calls from a number of senior figures within Whitehall to question why Barclays was always toward the top end of the Libor pricing.

 

 

Barclays file note

 

Emailed to John Varley on 30/10/2008. Copied to Jerry del Missier.

 

Date: 29th October 2008

 

Further to our last call, Mr Tucker reiterated that he had received calls from a number of senior figures within Whitehall to question why Barclays was always toward the top end of the Libor pricing. His response was "you have to pay what you have to pay". I asked if he could relay the reality, that not all banks were providing qutoes at the levels that represented real transactions, his response "oh, that would be worse".

 

I explained again our market rate driven policy and that it had recently meant that we appeared in the top quartile and on occasion the top decile of the pricing. Equally I noted that we continued to see others in the market posting rates at levels that were not representative of where they would actually undertake business. This latter point has on occasion pushed us higher than would otherwise appear to be the case. In fact, we are not having to "pay up" for money at all.

 

Mr Tucker stated the levels of calls he was receiving from Whitehall were "senior" and that while he was certain we did not need advice, that it did not always need to be the case that we appeared as high as we have recently.

 

"Mr Tucker stated the levels of calls he was receiving from Whitehall were senior and that, while he was certain that we did not need advice, that it did not always need to be the case that we appeared as high as we have recently."

 

Barclays said that subsequent to the call, Mr Diamond relayed the conversation to Mr del Missier. The two men were at the time senior figures at the firm's investment banking arm Barclays Capital.

 

Although Mr Diamond did not believe Mr Tucker was instructing Barclays to manipulate its Libor rate, it is possible Mr del Missier concluded it was, the bank said.

 

Barclays said in its evidence: "Jerry del Missier concluded that an instruction had been passed down from the Bank of England not to keep Libors so high and he therefore passed down a direction to that effect to the [traders]."

 

It is unclear who the "senior Whitehall" figures mentioned by Mr Diamond were.

 

Documents seen by the BBC on Monday indicate ministers in the last Labour government held discussions with banks about policies which would allow the Libor rate to fall.

 

Speculation about how much the government of the day knew prompted a statement on Tuesday evening from former Labour minister Baroness Vadera of Holland Park.

 

She said she "has no recollection of speaking to Paul Tucker or anyone else at the Bank of England about the price setting of Libor".

 

'Difficult position'

During a press conference on Tuesday, Mr Agius told reporters Mr del Missier had been "the most senior officer [at Barclays] who gave instructions to lower Libor rates, and that obviously puts him in a very difficult position".

 

Mr del Missier's role in the affair has been investigated by the FSA. Barclays said the FSA "closed the investigation without taking any enforcement action".

 

Libor is a benchmark interest rate, affecting what banks, businesses and individuals pay to borrow money.

 

Barclays said in its evidence that it told regulators it was concerned about the Libor rates posted by other banks, "and we were disappointed that no effective action was taken".

 

Mr Diamond's resignation came less than a week after Barclays was fined £290m for trying to manipulate the inter-bank lending rates.

 

BBC business editor Robert Peston disclosed on Tuesday Mr Diamond was encouraged to go by the heads of the Bank of England and the FSA.

 

Mr Diamond said he was stepping down because the external pressure on the bank risked "damaging the franchise".

 

No details of any severance package have been disclosed, although former City minister Lord Myners told BBC radio's World At One any payoff could be between £20m and £30m.

 

The resignations of Mr Diamond and Mr del Missier follow an announcement on Monday that Barclays chairman Marcus Agius will stand down.

 

However, he will now take over the running of Barclays until a new chief executive is appointed.

 

Earlier, Lord Turner, the chairman of the Financial Services Authority, described the outrage that has built up over the bank's actions.

 

"The cynical greed of traders asking their colleagues to falsify their Libor submissions so that they could make bigger profits - has justifiably shocked and angered people, in particular when we are facing hard economic times provoked by the financial crisis," he told the Financial Services Authority's annual meeting.

 

Meanwhile, the a Labour attempt to set up a judge-led inquiry into banking was defeated on Tuesday night in the House of Lords.

 

Prime Minister David Cameron has announced a parliamentary inquiry into the banking sector, but Labour said it was "not good enough".

 

MPs will get to vote on the type of inquiry on Thursday.

[malc d]

Brian Kirby - 2012-07-03 2:54 PM

 

This article reflects my views quite well. See what you think. http://tinyurl.com/7gu9ctn

 

 

Very good article that.

 

I was also interested to see an interview on Sky earlier today with ex chancellor Nigel Lawson who clearly thinks that this kind of thing goes on all over Europe and the States.

 

:-(