Guest JudgeMental Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 We left for Italy on Wednesday, and lost a day running around Adria dealers trying to get Truma secure motion vale changed as it had packed up...Not much fun when you are carring six weeks supply of Insulin I can assure you! The technician just changed like for like, I have no need for a secure motion valve and would have proffered it to be swapped for a normal one but language difficulties prevented this happening, but at least we have gas again. I have heard stuff on reliability of these valves before and when we get home I will order a normal valve to carry as spare.... just a heads up to others out there with these valves.and many thanks to Brian who was ever so helpful with advice and assistance on route... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Our van came with a 'standard' valve, due to it being a pain to turn gas on and off in certain curcumstances changed it for a Truma CS, but kept the standard one in the gas locker as a spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 We have the same concerns traveling with insulin but we carry a 12V cool box. It's not normally connected but could be used if necessary and in daylight our solar panel runs it without battery drain. Just a thought on what we do to cover this risk but I'm sorry I don't have any experience of this valve I'm not allowed to fit one! Enjoy your trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Hi Eddie, Sorry to hear about your problems but hope they are behind you now and enjoy your holiday in Italy. good luck to you all derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-08-07 8:01 AM....................just a heads up to others out there with these valves.and many thanks to Brian who was ever so helpful with advice and assistance on route... Tooooooooo kind dear boy! :-D Anyhow you were already there by the time I got on the act! :-) Under the circumstances, it may be wise to carry a spare: a small price to pay for peace of mind. Ours has a SecuMotion regulator with auto changeover. It has standard Truma SecuMotion pig-tails (reminder to self, need to change them, dates are 2012! :-)). We use only propane from Calor and Butagaz, one 13kg of each. We have now spent over 90 weeks in the van over the past five years, and the valve has never yet let us down. Fridge on gas almost daily for the odd hour or three, heating used when cold, water heating from time to time, grill from time to time, and hob at least daily, so the gas does get used. I think you have been unlucky. I have not heard repeatedly of these failing. In fact, I think yours is the only one, but in your shoes, I would do the same and carry a spare. Where are you now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Was it the pigtail or the regulator that failed? I have heard of the latter failing but not the former. We have just changed to a Gaslow refillable 11kg from our twin 6kg Propane system with Secumotion. I ditched the Secumotion pigtail for a Gaslow stainless steel job. Although I dont now have a green button to press on the pigtail, I still have to prime the regulator with the button on it. As we dont use the gas 'in motion' I didnt feel we had lost anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryW Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 bolero boy - 2012-08-07 5:31 PM I ditched the Secumotion pigtail for a Gaslow stainless steel job. I had a major leak on a Gaslow SS pipe. But credit to Gaslow a replacement arrived ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 bolero boy - 2012-08-07 5:31 PM................As we dont use the gas 'in motion' I didnt feel we had lost anything. That rather depends on whether you turn off the gas while travelling, as opposed to whether you use gas while travelling. That green button on the pigtail sets a pressure sensitive valve to release the gas up to the regulator. Its function is to shut off the gas supply at the cylinder, should the pigtail either come loose, or be severed in an accident. The idea is to prevent a stream of gas under pressure filling your gas locker, so possibly creating a fire, or on a bad day an explosion, hazard. In removing the Truma cut-off valves you have negated a major element of the SecuMotion system that gained it its authorisation. Don't Gaslow produce stainless steel pigtails that incorporate similar cut-off valves? If they do, and you don't turn off the gas at the cylinder when travelling, I think it would be wise to replace your present pigtails (presumed not the have the cut-off) with ones that have. In the meantime, until you fully reinstate the SecuMotion safety design, it would be wise to turn off the gas at the cylinder when travelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 All Truma/GOK bulkhead-mounted 30mbar regulators have exactly the same basic dual-diaphragm design and (from my several discussions with Truma(UK) technicians about this), when these regulators fail it's damage to the diaphragms that is usually the culprit. Consequently, if it's wished to guard as much as possible against future failure, there's no benefit in replacing a Truma/GOK "SecuMotion" regulator with a Truma/GOK "CS" regulator, a "CS" regulator with a "SecuMotion" regulator, a "Secumotion" regulator with a 'standard' Truma/GOK regulator, etc. etc. The only 100% certain way of guarding against a Truma/GOK 30mbar bulkhead/mounted failing is to not use one. The only readily-available 30mbar bulkhead-mounted regulator that (as far as I'm aware) has a completely clean bill of health regarding failures is the Clesse-branded one shown in these links http://www.thegaslowcentre.co.uk/magento/gaslow/english/gaslow-30mbar-caravan-system-8mm-copper.html http://www.socal.co.uk/clesse-30mb-euro-regulator-10mm-outlet.html http://www.bes.co.uk/products/063.asp (The Clesse product is available with an 8mm OR a 10mm outlet - so choose the correct one for your motorhome!) There are also versions incorporating a manual change-over capability: http://www.socal.co.uk/clesse-30mb-manual-change-over-valve-8mm-outlet.html There has been a great deal of previous discussion about regulator failures - this thread may summarise the situation usefully: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25089&posts=28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Have met a few people who have had problems with these shock sensing valves recently. It was suggested that a high gas flow (like an external BBQ) can cause them to close and the occurance takes place while the vehicle is parked up. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 The "CS" regulator is Crash(shock)-sensing, the Secumotion is flow-sensing. The Secumotion comes in several, differentl rated, versions, which should be matched to the (presumably maximum) demand of the vehicle. (And I assume that, because of the calculation required by the converter, this is why they are not officially available for retro-fit by individuals, unlike the CS version). The Secumotion fitted to my 'van is sometimes a little temperamental, particularly at high-flow demand, and has been known to "trip". I have some suspicion that this is because it has been sized for the standard gas installation, whereas mine has an uprated Combi 6E (rather than 4E) and an oven fitted, and with these in use, the flow measurement against the maximum may be marginal. Whatever,,,,,I can usually reset it, and carry on, though, if it does finally fail completely, I shall not replace it with a Secumotion regulator (as I don't need in-transit (see what I did there ;-) ) heating). I do find it useful at the moment, however, not to have to turn the gas off at the cylinder before moving on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Sorry Brian, not 100% clear in my post. I have no need of gas while travelling so I always turn it off at the cylinder. I even did this when we had the Secumotion pigtail. When in transit, the fridge runs on 12v. If we ever visit colder climes and discover a requirement for heat on the move I may well reinstate the Secumotion pigtail. Thanks for the cautionary posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-08-08 10:05 AM The only readily-available 30mbar bulkhead-mounted regulator that (as far as I'm aware) has a completely clean bill of health regarding failures is the Clesse-branded one shown in these links http://www.socal.co.uk/clesse-30mb-euro-regulator-10mm-outlet.html Thats the one we now use as a 'spare', so if that plays up I'll blame you :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-08-07 5:20 PM JudgeMental - 2012-08-07 8:01 AM....................just a heads up to others out there with these valves.and many thanks to Brian who was ever so helpful with advice and assistance on route... Tooooooooo kind dear boy! :-D Anyhow you were already there by the time I got on the act! :-) Under the circumstances, it may be wise to carry a spare: a small price to pay for peace of mind. Ours has a SecuMotion regulator with auto changeover. It has standard Truma SecuMotion pig-tails (reminder to self, need to change them, dates are 2012! :-)). We use only propane from Calor and Butagaz, one 13kg of each. We have now spent over 90 weeks in the van over the past five years, and the valve has never yet let us down. Fridge on gas almost daily for the odd hour or three, heating used when cold, water heating from time to time, grill from time to time, and hob at least daily, so the gas does get used. I think you have been unlucky. I have not heard repeatedly of these failing. In fact, I think yours is the only one, but in your shoes, I would do the same and carry a spare. Where are you now? We arrived lake Garda saturday. Weather glorious......35 deg during day but. Comfortable 25 last few nights, hotter earlier though. Adios amigo! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBill Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Brian Kirby - 2012-08-07 7:11 PM bolero boy - 2012-08-07 5:31 PM................As we dont use the gas 'in motion' I didnt feel we had lost anything. That rather depends on whether you turn off the gas while travelling, as opposed to whether you use gas while travelling. That green button on the pigtail sets a pressure sensitive valve to release the gas up to the regulator. Its function is to shut off the gas supply at the cylinder, should the pigtail either come loose, or be severed in an accident. The idea is to prevent a stream of gas under pressure filling your gas locker, so possibly creating a fire, or on a bad day an explosion, hazard. In removing the Truma cut-off valves you have negated a major element of the SecuMotion system that gained it its authorisation. Don't Gaslow produce stainless steel pigtails that incorporate similar cut-off valves? If they do, and you don't turn off the gas at the cylinder when travelling, I think it would be wise to replace your present pigtails (presumed not the have the cut-off) with ones that have. In the meantime, until you fully reinstate the SecuMotion safety design, it would be wise to turn off the gas at the cylinder when travelling. I have just looked up these pigtails with the green button and find them expensive. When I picked up my new van in March I found that only one pigtail with the green button was present. The salesman had them supply me with two normal ones that matched, (negative green buttons). This must mean that they have made my gas system dangerous if used whilst in motion, or am I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 The integrity of the Secumotion and CS systems relies on both the flow-sensitive or crash-sensitive regulator (which will interrupt the gas if there is a break upstream of the regulator(secumotion), or a shock which is adjudged to be a "crash" (CS)), and the "rupture-proofed" pigtails, which are designed to shut gas off following a break between the bottle(s) and the regulator. If one of the components is missing, then it is not considered "drive-safe". So, it would appear that (always assuming you have a "drive-safe" Secumotion or CS regulator), you have a "compromised" installation (in motion only) due to non "rupture-proof" pigtails. ....and yes, the "rupture proof" pigtails are more expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBill Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Robinhood - 2012-08-08 10:55 PM The integrity of the Secumotion and CS systems relies on both the flow-sensitive or crash-sensitive regulator (which will interrupt the gas if there is a break upstream of the regulator(secumotion), or a shock which is adjudged to be a "crash" (CS)), and the "rupture-proofed" pigtails, which are designed to shut gas off following a break between the bottle(s) and the regulator. If one of the components is missing, then it is not considered "drive-safe". So, it would appear that (always assuming you have a "drive-safe" Secumotion or CS regulator), you have a "compromised" installation (in motion only) due to non "rupture-proof" pigtails. ....and yes, the "rupture proof" pigtails are more expensive! Thanks for that, its back to the dealer then for a replacement set of pigtails under warranty!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Truma's SecuMotion and CS systems both include a proprietary Truma 'pigtail' with a push-button, but it's easy enough to obtain much cheaper non-Truma pigtails with an integrated non-return/excess-flow valve that should shut off the gas flow if the pigtail is ruptured. Examples are shown here http://www.bes.co.uk/products/067.asp I'm not suggesting that such pigtails be fiitted as an economy measure to Truma SecuMotion/CS systems instead of the Truma push-button pigtails. However, if you drive your motorhome with its gas-bottles not turned off, such pigtails should provide better protection in an accident that damages the pigtail than the 'straight through' type of pigtail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildBill Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-08-09 9:18 AM Truma's SecuMotion and CS systems both include a proprietary Truma 'pigtail' with a push-button, but it's easy enough to obtain much cheaper non-Truma pigtails with an integrated non-return/excess-flow valve that should shut off the gas flow if the pigtail is ruptured. Examples are shown here http://www.bes.co.uk/products/067.asp I'm not suggesting that such pigtails be fiitted as an economy measure to Truma SecuMotion/CS systems instead of the Truma push-button pigtails. However, if you drive your motorhome with its gas-bottles not turned off, such pigtails should provide better protection in an accident that damages the pigtail than the 'straight through' type of pigtail. Thanks Derek, I shall go for replacement of the original Truma pigtails from the dealer under warranty first as they should have been provided with the motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weldted Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hi I had suffered secur motion failures in the past but having now fitted Truma's new inline filter no further problems, around £70 but well worht it, we also have medicene that has to be kept in the fridge which has been running for 5 months on autogas with no problems, there is an indicator glass at the bottom of the filter which tells you when the catridge need replacing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 When our butane cylinder was low on gas in the winter, the green button on our secumotion was tripping out when the combi heater came on in the night. I kept it pushed in by taping it with plastic insulating tape until we were travelling again. Maybe this would have kept Eddie's working as a temporary solution and have been safe if the gas was turned off for travel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 JamesFrance - 2012-08-12 2:31 PM When our butane cylinder was low on gas in the winter, the green button on our secumotion was tripping out when the combi heater came on in the night. I kept it pushed in by taping it with plastic insulating tape until we were travelling again. Maybe this would have kept Eddie's working as a temporary solution and have been safe if the gas was turned off for travel? Thanks for that James....seeing as that worked for you will keep it in mind for future use...a stick would do the job also I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 JamesFrance - 2012-08-12 2:31 PM When our butane cylinder was low on gas in the winter, the green button on our secumotion was tripping out when the combi heater came on in the night. I kept it pushed in by taping it with plastic insulating tape until we were travelling again. Maybe this would have kept Eddie's working as a temporary solution and have been safe if the gas was turned off for travel? That's because you were using butane with a high-demand appliance like Truma's 'combination' heater. Although this type of appliance will operate using butane or propane at 30mbar, if you use butane (particularly in cold weather conditions) the vaporisation rate of butane can easily fail to meet the heater's demand for gas. If this happens the gas pressure in the system will fall to the point where the heater will shut down or, if the motorhome has a system like SecuMotion, the lowered pressure will be treated as a 'leak' and the SecuMotion safety-valve will close. The solution is to follow Truma's recommendation and use propane. See http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=26378&start=1 The ploy of 'strapping down' a SecuMotion regulator's button has come up before http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=27450&posts=3 It's worth trying but, if the regulator failure is due to internal blockage (as usually seems to be the case when these Truma/GOK bulkhead-mounted regulators cease working), won't correct the fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Yes, this would not be a problem with propane, but where I am in the winter there is a Cepsa garage across the road that only sells butane. There is a truck which visits the site once per week but I only carry one Spanish cylinder, so need an instant refill when it runs out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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