tomag Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Hi Can anyone tell me the differance between the Citroen and Fiat vans which is best? and why do campers with the Citroen base seem to be cheaper than the Fiat.I know the Fiat seems to have more comments but there are so many more of them so you would exspect that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Presumably you are referring to current Citroen Relay and Fiat Ducato vehicles. Citroen Relay, Fiat Ducato and Peugeot Boxer vehicles are produced in the same factory at Atessa Val Di Sangro, Italy. Citroen Relay and Peugeot Boxer vehicles are essentially the same, the differences being primarily cosmetic (eg. different radiator grille designs). Besides cosmetic differences, the Fiat Ducato differs from the Relay/Boxer in its 'motorisation', as some engines used in Ducatos are not used in Relays/Boxers (and vice versa). And, as far as I'm aware, it continues to be the case that an 'automatic' gearbox is only available on Fiat Ducatos. I don't think any motorhome manufacturer currently offers a choice between the Relay/Boxer or the Ducato as the basis for an otherwise-identical model. Rapido did for a while (for the French market) but now just uses the Ducato chassis. This makes realistic Citroen/Fiat/Peugeot price comparisons virtually impossible, as the cost of the base-vehicle will only be one component of the price the motorhome manufacturer asks for the completed motorcaravan. A small number of UK converters build on a Citroen platform (East Neuk, Nu Venture, Romahome, Wildax), Auto-Sleepers builds on Peugeot, and the UK's 'Big Players' (Auto-Trail, Elddis, Swift) build on Fiat. Some Citroen/Peugeot-based motorhomes are dearer than other Fiat-based motorhomes, but the opposite is also true. This will be evident from a cursory glance through the pricing details in MMM's Buyers' Guide listings. I've no idea whether Citroen/Peugeot-based motorhomes are 'better' or 'worse' than Fiat-based ones. If there happened to be a Citroen agency local to you, with a good reputation and able to handle servicing/under-warranty repairs of largish vehicles, then buying a Citroen-based motorhome might make better sense than buying a Fiat-based one. Conversely, if there were a Fiat agency local to you, buying a Fiat-based motorhome might have advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 To slightly correct Derek, there is one manufacturer who does give the choice of either Fiat or Peugeot based van converstions (but not Citroen) - Autocruise. We have just bought a 2012 model Accent and found out that they were built on either the Peugeot 2.2 (130bhp) or Fiat 2.3 (130bhp) chassis and as far as I'm aware this is still the case for their 2013 models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Globecar give option of Fiat or Citreon base at same cost, I wanted a Citreon base as main dealer is only a few miles from me, but it wasn't to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Other than the engine/gearbox & badging, AIUI the "Camper" chassis is only available on the Fiat badged vehicles. But this isn't used by all converters (many of the PVC converters use the "standard" chassis ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Other than the engine/gearbox & badging, AIUI the "Camper" chassis is only available on the Fiat badged vehicles. But this isn't used by all converters (many of the PVC converters use the "standard" chassis ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Mel B - 2012-09-10 9:24 PM To slightly correct Derek, there is one manufacturer who does give the choice of either Fiat or Peugeot based van converstions (but not Citroen) - Autocruise. We have just bought a 2012 model Accent and found out that they were built on either the Peugeot 2.2 (130bhp) or Fiat 2.3 (130bhp) chassis and as far as I'm aware this is still the case for their 2013 models. I overlooked Autocruise. As you rightly say, it was (and, like you, I presume still is) possible to have certain models with a 130bhp motor built on a Boxer or Ducato base. In such cases, are you aware whether there was a price difference between the two variants, please? It seems an odd thing for Autocruise to offer, as there will be instances where a Fiat base-vehicle must be used (eg. if automatic transmission is to be provided) or a Peugeot base-vehicle must be emlpoyed (eg. the lower-powered motor version of the "Jazz" model). In such instances, the specification differences will produce consequential price differences between the Fiat and Peugeot versions. As far as 130bhp motor variants are concerned, perhaps it's just down to availability of panel-van chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 flicka - 2012-09-10 10:29 PM Other than the engine/gearbox & badging, AIUI the "Camper" chassis is only available on the Fiat badged vehicles. But this isn't used by all converters (many of the PVC converters use the "standard" chassis ) I was under the impression that Citroen/Peugeot offered a 'camping-car' chassis and (from his comments on page 126 of MMM February 2011) Andrew Bromley evidently thought the same - but both of us may be wrong. I don't think any UK motorhome manufacturer building coachbuilt models on Peugeot Boxer chassis uses a 'camping-car' version (which may indeed be significant), though Bailey builds on a Boxer base with an Al-Ko rear chassis. Continental-European motorhome converters rarely use Citroen/Peugeot chassis for coachbuilt designs. An exception is Giottiline, building on the Citroen Relay/Jumper. The Giottiline website http://www.giottiline.com/?page_id=30&lang=en refers to a 'Mechanical unit' with a chassis with a " standard widened rear track", but this may be an Al-Ko chassis rather than a 'camping-car' one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-10 9:06 AM ..and the UK's 'Big Players' (Auto-Trail, Elddis, Swift) build on Fiat. Elddis of course build uniquely on Peugeot. Also I believe that Peugeot do (or at least did) supply a camping car chassis and that Elddis do (or did) use it. Certainly if you remove the trim in the overcab area my 2008 model it has the pre-cut and re-inforced factory finished cab cut out as depicted on the Fiat Camper website and is not a simple can opener job on a standard chassis cab. . Another possible clue is that the MLWB model with 3800mm wheelbase wasn't available as a chassis cab according to the Peugeot (and Fiat) documentation - only the MWB (3450mm) and LWB (4035mm) wheelbase variants were listed in the brochures of that time. If this is correct it would then follow that any X250 motorhome with a 3800mm MLWB wheelbase, such as the Elddis 180, was built on a camping car chassis. Of course the camping car chassis cabs from the era that I refer to (pre-Euro V) are of the full height variety. It may be that only Fiat are marketing the new half-height camping car chassis with the top portion of the box section gone. I wouldn't know - I haven't looked under any recent Elddis builds. Interestingly, Elddis list the chassis of the current models as being a 'Peugeot Boxer Tempo Libero' which I imagine roughly translates to 'freetime', perhaps indicating that they still use a leisure version of the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Strachan Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Derek, My 2011 Elddis is on a Peugeot Boxer. So far everything on the base vehicle is fine, but perhaps I should not have said that! Cheers Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Steve928 - 2012-09-11 10:13 AM ...Of course the camping car chassis cabs from the era that I refer to (pre-Euro V) are of the full height variety. It may be that only Fiat are marketing the new half-height camping car chassis with the top portion of the box section gone. I wouldn't know - I haven't looked under any recent Elddis builds... (Elddis has built motorhomes exclusively on Peugeot chassis for years - mea culpa.) The X250 camping-car chassis has never been "full height". I refer you to my 3 September 2012 9:15 AM posting in this recent forum thread: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=28780&posts=24 and to George Collings's photos in this September 2011 discussion: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24913&posts=25 It would appear from the 2007 Ducato brochure http://www.nor-com.co.uk/assets/pdf/motorhome-brochure.pdf that all X250 chassis destined for motorhome construction have cabs factory-modified in Italy with a cut away roof and back wall. There's a mention of "Tempo Libero" on the video found here http://tinyurl.com/czt4vxr I can't say with certainty that Elddis have never built on an X250 camping-car chassis - in fact, the MMM May 2012 report on a Aspire 265 said that's what this model has. However, all the photos of 2007-onwards Elddis models (including the Aspire 265) show the rear wheels with their outer surface well inside the bodywork's vertical line. This is an indicator of a standard-track rear axle, not the widened-track axle that's an inherent part of an X250 camping-car chassis's specification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-09-11 9:14 AM Mel B - 2012-09-10 9:24 PM To slightly correct Derek, there is one manufacturer who does give the choice of either Fiat or Peugeot based van converstions (but not Citroen) - Autocruise. We have just bought a 2012 model Accent and found out that they were built on either the Peugeot 2.2 (130bhp) or Fiat 2.3 (130bhp) chassis and as far as I'm aware this is still the case for their 2013 models. I overlooked Autocruise. As you rightly say, it was (and, like you, I presume still is) possible to have certain models with a 130bhp motor built on a Boxer or Ducato base. In such cases, are you aware whether there was a price difference between the two variants, please? It seems an odd thing for Autocruise to offer, as there will be instances where a Fiat base-vehicle must be used (eg. if automatic transmission is to be provided) or a Peugeot base-vehicle must be emlpoyed (eg. the lower-powered motor version of the "Jazz" model). In such instances, the specification differences will produce consequential price differences between the Fiat and Peugeot versions. As far as 130bhp motor variants are concerned, perhaps it's just down to availability of panel-van chassis. As far as I'm aware there is no price difference between wanting a Peugeot or Fiat base for the 130bhp engined vehicles, the only difference appears to be if you want an engine upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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