rupert123 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 We have now done a couple of short trips in our PVC to test it out before a longer trip and see if we could get along with a smaller van. The van worked well and all systems behaved as they should, liked the fixed gas tank and the uncomplicated compressor type fridge, despite reading these were noisy it is not, you cannot hear it running. Overall however we remain unconvinced by the panel van concept, others who have changed on here seem fully convinced by them, perhaps unwilling to admit it may be a mistake. Driving the van is more car like but frankly not a reason to change, in practical terms even on the narrow dry stone wall lined roads of North Wales it makes little difference. The overall width is only a few inches better and not worth worrying about, the one plus is perhaps it is doing around 35 mpg as against 30mpg from our Swift Sundance. As a small aside I always assumed, wrongly, as it turns out that the front seat in one X250 would be much the same as another. The Swift seats were brilliant, among the best I have ever used in car or van, the Auto sleeper ones are not nearly as good. The seat squab is to short and the armrests also, good bit is they are lower so my wife’s feet touch the floor rather than having to rest on a box, my fault should have checked. Noise levels are a little better but not as much as you would think, noise in the form of rattles comes from cupboards, cooker shelves, cutlery draws etc. so little different from a C/B. The side door is a big negative, my wife struggles with it and having this big ‘clunky’ door is a real bind, much prefer the normal hab door of a C/B but with a panel van you just have to learn to live with it, not yet sure we can. Rear doors are not a problem, although it would be nice to see others follow IH example and make a proper job of this. Inside it is OK, we can cope with the lack of space and storage fine, bed is very good and lounging area is big enough so far, first longer trip coming up so we will see. Water tanks are big enough and the 66ltr fresh tank lasts for 2-3 days on campsite. Even the Whale system, now I am used to it, works fine in practice. Have put off ordering the Ezetrail for our scooter until the New Year when we decide if we are going to continue with a panel van. Parking is certainly easier but not in my opinion a reason to go down this route as we have always coped fine in the past. Some negative stuff here but trying to be realistic and not get carried away with what will always be a big compromise. At the moment it is no better than 50/50 we will stick with it. The Autosleeper is a nice small van, layout we prefer and it comes as standard with built in gas tank, decent fridge, proper cooking facilities, including microwave, built in tv, decent finish to interior fittings. It has a separate shower, bit of a waste this as we never use it, use site facilities, but makes extra storage space and with its full length black windows is surely the best looking PVC out their. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-09-17 9:50 AM Overall however we remain unconvinced by the panel van concept, others who have changed on here seem fully convinced by them, perhaps unwilling to admit it may be a mistake. , I am willing to accept that we are all different, why can't you? We've driven all sizes from VW's to RV's and the Campscout suits us best (at present), it's the smallest vehicle that has the equipment and space that we want, and thats the concept we like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Thanks Henry - a very good precis on life with a pvc that makes perfect sense and encompasses most of my thoughts and perceptions on the subject of livability. Like you, I remain unconvinced that the benefits over a coachbuilt, particulary a compact low profile coachbuilt, are worth the compromises in other areas? Like you I have noticed that when folk buy any new van it is the finest thing available and is just perfect for their needs - but not so very far in the future they are changing it for something different? Nowt wrong with that of course and maybe they just fancy a change like we did - who knows - but I think that we too may have got our change wrong on this occasion and I am very mindful of not getting it wrong again by downsizing too much as it's too flippin expensive! Meanwhile I wish you luck and hope that live in a pvc settles down to at least acceptable if not real affection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Then I don't really understand why you changed.....Best wait see how you feel after a proper holiday We are just back from an 3000 mile tour of Italy/Croatia ( 2nd ) and the van suits our style of travel perfectly. Less hassle and more enjoyment in our opinion, and wife happy to drive unlike the CB. Faster travel and better handling also as well as the better fuel consumption you mention. last campers where high tops so we really notice the difference you may not. I agree a separate shower a waste of valuable space, ours does not have one. Some German manufacturers change sliding door to a fixed panel with caravan door, but we like the door as it creates a nice open feel (we have mosquito net on door). would not like a fixed rear panel as this would make it a far less practical load carrying vehicle. I disagree regards width, we would never get our CB in a city car park, and we had no problems parking right near attractions on this trip If you enjoy touring they make more sense IMO, I would have to fill up twice a day on long European runs previously. Our van has same size of tanks/gas/fridge etc.... as last CB and bed the most comfortable yet, you can sit up and have a cup of tea in it unlike a lot of CB with garages...no leaks and easier to clean other factors. if you dont venture out of UK much and camp all year around in poor weather I would not consider one....Pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 colin - 2012-09-17 10:27 AM rupert123 - 2012-09-17 9:50 AM Overall however we remain unconvinced by the panel van concept, others who have changed on here seem fully convinced by them, perhaps unwilling to admit it may be a mistake. , I am willing to accept that we are all different, why can't you? We've driven all sizes from VW's to RV's and the Campscout suits us best (at present), it's the smallest vehicle that has the equipment and space that we want, and thats the concept we like. The Campscout and identical Possl version, by far the most popular van in Europe, we saw many on this trip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ips Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Thank you Rupert for a very informative post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 We have just returned from a jonty around the Dorgogne region and were supprised to see a growing number of French motorhomers with new PVC's on some of the Aires we stopped on . Possibly a new trend because as you may have seen they mostly have the larger coach built motorhomes. The one's we saw still had the proverbial Satelite dishes in action as soon as they parked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 We came very close to a mistake in buying a MH, after many years with our VW, and hiring different vans around the world we thought the Adria Twin would be ideal, but a weeks hire of a similier layout van was a disarter, gf's claustrophobia went into overdrive when trying to sleep in the tranverse bed, that would have been an expensive mistake. We have now decided the Campscout is a van we intend keeping for proboly ten years, and will be making several mods to get it exactly as we want it. T'other year a friend traded his caravan for a tag axle MH ,apache?, He soon realised it was a mistake and has now gone back to tugging, as I say we're all different and even oursleves with a couple of decades experiance benifited from 'hire before you buy'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-09-17 11:04 AM Then I don't really understand why you changed.....Best wait see how you feel after a proper holiday We are just back from an 3000 mile tour of Italy/Croatia ( 2nd ) and the van suits our style of travel perfectly. Less hassle and more enjoyment in our opinion, and wife happy to drive unlike the CB. Faster travel and better handling also as well as the better fuel consumption you mention. last campers where high tops so we really notice the difference you may not. I agree a separate shower a waste of valuable space, ours does not have one. Some German manufacturers change sliding door to a fixed panel with caravan door, but we like the door as it creates a nice open feel (we have mosquito net on door). would not like a fixed rear panel as this would make it a far less practical load carrying vehicle. I disagree regards width, we would never get our CB in a city car park, and we had no problems parking right near attractions on this trip This we intend to do Eddie. As I tried to point out in my ham fisted manner am not dismissing it but just trying to put a balanced point of view after just three short trips. On the whole it does work well but as yet have not seen the real advantage others have, we all have differant needs of course. I cannot believe however that the gushing reports I have seen by people who have changed with not a single negative can possibly be correct. Ours is 6" less than our last coachbuild was so the width is not really an issue, or has not been yet and do not use as a load carrier but we all have differant needs so no one will ever entirly agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 We are in the process of downsizing from our Tag Axle Hymer ,we have purchased a Chausson Allegro 67,pick it up next week,we were going to get a panel van conversion ,but after playing in lots at the shows we thought it a step too far from the Hymer in one leap, and intend to use the Chausson for a few years to get used to a smaller van and then look at panel vans again,We want to camp wild in more remote places than we do so a panel conversion would be great for that but we still want space. We have emptied the Hymer ready to change and could not believe the amount of stuff we had aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Interesting posts, as we have just changed to a panel van I hope my thoughts are not overly gushing!!! :D In our recent trip 10 day trip we found the van worked very well for us - the bed is extremely comfy and although shorter actually feels more spacious, probably due to the fact that it doesn't have the corner cut off and the overbed lockers aren't so 'oppressive'. The only downside is a slight draught through the rear doors where they join, but that can be easily sorted. The washroom is smaller but as we are not people who take daily showers it isn't a problem for us - we can still get everything in there that we need - it doesn't have a window so there is more usable 'wall space'. The front lounge is very similar to what we had previously and is comfy to use, having windows on both sides it feels very bright and airy and more 'open' so it feels more like you are part of your surroundings - it is lovely sitting there with the big side door open. Similarly sitting in the rear on the bed, or when it's set up as a lounge, is very nice, especially with the rear doors open. The kitchen is of a similar size but with only a 2 ring hob, however as the layout has the hob immediately next ot the wardrobe wall on the left and the sink on the right next to the flip up worktop extension it actually works better than the one we had previously where the worktop extension I'd made was at the side of the cooker. The one thing I'm not happy about is the tap being withing the sink itself so to use it the sink cover has to be opened, however I'm hoping to be able to put in a separate tap on top of the worktop, or I'll do what I have been up to now and use the one in the washroom. Overall the kitchen storage is as good as, if not better, than we had in the Chausson and actually is more accessible/usable. The overhead locker isn't anything like as spacious as our previous one (the glory hole!) but I have plans to modify it to make it easier to use and be able to put in larger items than the current 'slot' will permit. The cab seats swivel easier than they did in the Chausson, possibly because the Fiat cab is a bit wider I believe than the Ford, so this 'benefit' may have been the same regardless it being a panel van or a coachbuilt on a Fiat base. As I mentioned in a previous thread, my hubby has definitely found it more relaxing and enjoyable to drive down narrow country roads with traffic wizzing past in the opposite direction - certainly on our latest jaunt, there were times when we simply would not have been able to get by, or go where we wanted, if we still had our previous coachbuilt which was 25cm wider (around 10") so to us there is quite a difference in the girth. It is quieter, not because of the contents of the cupboards etc, but that the fittings/furniture etc don't make so much noise and it isn't echoed as it was in the coachbuilt - Lily certainly approves! There are pros and cons for all recreational vehicles, we weighed them up carefully and knew what we could compromise on, but the benefits we've found to date far outweigh any compromises we've had to make which, to be honest, there haven't been that many. For those considering a van conversion in place of a coachbuilt - take your time and think through very, very carefully what you really want and can't do without, what compromises you think you can make, and what it would be like to live with those compromises. No matter how 'right' parts of the panel van conversion is, it is the compromises that will make or break your enjoyment of it in use ... small things that you think you can live with can become massive problems if you get it wrong. I love the sliding windows! It is great to be able to have them partially open on the move to let some air in the van for the dogs and also if I am inside, and Chris is outside, with the doors closed, I can easily open one of them to talk to him ... or empty the water from my salad spinner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Mel B - 2012-09-17 8:17 PM The only downside is a slight draught through the rear doors where they join, but that can be easily sorted. I was told by Stuart of NVC that this is down to door adjustment. The WildAx we hired was very drafty throu the rear doors, I've not noticed any draft on our Globecar, but if there was it has full curtains across rear as well as blinds which helps keep in warmth and exclude drafts, I have seen some vans that have an extra draft strip which looks like pipe insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gj1023 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I had a 6mtr CI Iow profile as it suited my needs at the time, but after two years, circumstances changed . I decided it was waste of money just sitting there, with only occasional use. So I sold my CI and my car and I bought a 5mtr AS Symbol , now as a sol vehicle it used several times a week. It is a lovely van , easier to drive and park, compared to the CI , it goes anywhere white van man goes. Inside, the toilet is more comfortable as more room for your legs, the CI had a narrow bathroom down the side of the fixed bed. There is more prep room in the kitchen, a decent sink and draining board. Love the sliding door and rear opening rear doors, lets in a lot of fresh air and makes it feel very airey, not so closed in as the CI, which had one door . The gas locker on the inside is not so good as the outside one on the CI, smaller and a bit awkward. The CI had 9 overhead lockers and the AS just 2., the later Symbol has dropped the high small windows and put in extra lockers Storage has not been problem though , as we have adapted to what storage space we have. Overall I have been very pleased with my vans , both bought on Ebay from private sellers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Thanks Henry for such an honest evaluation; think many who downsize covince themselves it works when really it is a compromise too far. Yes if you are limited for parking space at home or do not want to run a car for local trips at home or are unhappy driving a larger van then a panal van might be right for you. But certainly for us, having started 30 years ago with a tiny Fiat 900 with pop-up roof, through a Honda Romahome and a Auto Sleepers Harmony, then certainly would not go back tp PVC. Our present coachbuilt, just under 7m, gives us excellant lounge space, sep. shower (we do not use communal facilities), good storage etc which we could never get with PVC. We are both happy to drive it and have no problems visiting almost every where we like in France (If touring U.K. then might have to re-think). In-fact thinking next van might be a 7.3m Rapido!!! Re seeing more panal vans in France then can not say we have seen this; certainly have seen many new Concords etc; interestingly here at Stenay tonight there are over thirty vans with not one PVC to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Having read this thread with much interest and looked at a couple of PVCs this week I am more convinced than ever that they are just not for us at the present time. For us the compromises on living space, storage, kitchen, bed width and ease of use are just a step too far and for us the balance does not swing in their favour with smaller size and better mpg. We will probably clamber over one or two at Lincoln this weekend so never say never - just probably not now! I thank everyone for their frank and open postings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Over a periodof some 20 years we have had 2 PVCs and 3 CBs, the last two of which have been low profile continental manufactured. Each has been suitable for its purpose at the time, and basically we only changed either due to the age of the motorhome, or circumstances and type of usage. Currently we have a Burstner Marano 595 which is just over 6m long, but some 2.35m wide, plus those huge mirrors....which is where i see the main difficulty! Our previous motorhome was a Rapido 710F which in many ways was the optimum,both in layout and size (length and width), and gradually, we are seeing one or two manufacturers realize that coachbuilts can be built to that size and are surely better value than the ubuqitous FIAT LWB conversions. We would certainly consider changing to say an Autocruise Rhythm - same layout as we have now, but a litle shorter , and definitely narrower including the mirrors! BUT at what cost ...something around £45k, I think as of now. In terms ofour current usage, the coachbuilt is far better for winter use, bit in time tocome - if we stay with a MH- then we would certainly not be averse to retruning to a PVC, though we would look very carefully at the quality,and space usage. Overall, I still come back the tothe old maxim - 'horses for courses'...there's no 'right'or 'wrong'....it is inetersing though that we also found far more continental PVCs on teh roads and sites when we were in France earlier this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Having only ever bought one campervan.................a Fiat Amigo........in the early 80's but having some experience of driving a sherpa highwayman around Morocco ;-)..............I was already well along the road of discovering any campervan will do the job ;-)...........................if it works why change it :-S Now Sue wants to add her bit 8-)............ On the site where we are a Dutch couple parked up opposite us for 2 nights. A lovely big Hymer Gold van, elderly gentleman in long trousers quite smart, wife equally smart the only time they got out of the van was to put out a mat. Really lovely and warm yet they sat inside van with blinds down, only once saw man stand outside on another pitch admiring his van, suppose its whatever floats your boat but van must have cost a fortune :-( Our van might be old but we get about a lot and use it! SUE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 We were thinking that when we get to old to walk far a panel van conversion may be the way to go. The big off put for us is always the lack of storage space. Now we've seen an Adria compact on a site. Traverse rear bed and a big garage underneath. Well finished and with all the advantages of a coach built. Looks a much better bet. The new Hymer compact looks a possible good bet as well. Both are similar in dia mentions to a PVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Colin Leake - 2012-09-20 10:32 PM We were thinking that when we get to old to walk far a panel van conversion may be the way to go. . Hi Colin; not sure I understand how the walking comment works?? If it's a smaller van you want so you don't have so far to walk around inside, then you must be used to whoppers!! If mobility really is an issue, then I'd have thought a caravan would be the solution. that way you have transport to take you places that you won't be able to walk to. that would be my solution. It would then be important to find a caravan with a size and layout that suited. I couldn't find a PVC with a layout that worked for us so I designed one. Layout is all important; and size really does matter, whether you want a VW classic size or a big one with slideouts,. Whichever way you do it it's a lot of money if you get it wrong, cheers alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I agree with Colin, being able to park along with cars in city centre car parks is a Godsend. Just back from busy 6 week tour of Italy including Tuscany/Umbria/ferry over tp Croatia etc... Parking in busy tourist spots was always a hassle with the CB. We came of the ferry from Italy to Croatia and parked in the small port car park right right in front of Diocletian's palace. Within minutes we were walking around the market....This was not an isolated event, this ease of parking, driving etc...was one of the many reasons we changed, and is ever so good for my blood pressure :-D Snowie, its a motorhome forum..and many (me included) have no interest in caravans? In my touring example above a caravan would have been a nightmare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I can certainly see the benefit of being able to park easier.. ...although I'm not altogether convinced that I'd *want* to be shoehorning my pride and joy into a busy town centre carparks..not amongst all the short sighted old duffers in their Honda Jazzs..or the "I'm too busy to park properly" Yummy mummies,in their huge people carriers and 4x4s.... (lol) (..I tend to try and park away from "other people" if I can...bl**dy people eh!..they spoil everything... (lol) ) There was a newish, "UK sided",Adria Twin(SP something?) on the Baltic Wharf (Bristol),a lovely loving piece of kit...but to be honest,it *looked* huge...and not that much smaller than most of coachbuilts on site... :-S If only someone could come up with(and "mass produce") a SWB/MWB panel van,with a hefty payload and a slide out!...now that would be interesting... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 pepe63 - 2012-09-21 10:26 AM If only someone could come up with(and "mass produce") a SWB/MWB panel van,with a hefty payload and a slide out!...now that would be interesting... ;-) I think my ideal MH would be mine built on a MWB with bed as slide out on rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Don't really see how H can say width makes little difference. Our CB was 2300 wide, Adria 2025 Now that is 270 mm difference.. Or 11 inches in old money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Whether you like it or not , the time will come when you need to make things easier to carry on living the kind of life you enjoy :-D and if it means downsizing and making a few compromises you will do it. We dont need now to be taking all the paraphernalia ! in my case dresses and shoes ;-) I have noticed the last couple of years I bring more and more things back unused and unworn and the have been carted around for a couple of thousand miles! I need to be able to help my O.H with all this driving and he doesnt need the hassle of making up and taking down the bed each day. All we need is a comfortable area to be able to relax and eat in, a bed that is fixed and doesnt need to be collapsed on as soon as its made up (lol) a reasonable kitchen that I can prepare a meal and wash up in, a decent size fridge doesnt need a huge freezer comp; and a place where we can wash and have like Mel an occasional shower if we arent on a site with facilities. The whole point in camping (yes it still is camping) is to enjoy sitting outside in the fresh air when the weather is favourable :-D and lets face it who sits inside when its red hot outside? all you need is a awning ( which we will have) . And the ease of being able to park up if you want to as J.M has said near to or in towns and not take up two parking bays because of your overhang. If it means we can carry on for as long as we can drive a car then I'm all for it. I just wish the bl++dy thing would hurry up while we still have a few daylight hours to enjoy. :-D and the latest is first week in Oct!! If CATERPILLAR can make 20 trucks in a day how long does it take to make a PVC ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Excellent post Margaret! Well said :-D We still take to much. weighed my clothes before we went and was approx 12kg. Can easy reduce that by 50% and not miss anything. More then enough storage in ours and bed superb..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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