Robinhood Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 747 - 2012-10-17 8:11 PM I expect that I will get some sort of 'fine' because I did not pay and display. No doubt their ANPR camera will confirm that there is no ticket issued with my registration number on it. This is despite the fact that we were entitled to free parking as my wife spent more than £5 in Morrisons. Au contraire, I suspect that, as you didn't "pay and display", you weren't entitled to free parking. What you might have been entitled to, if you had paid and displayed, is a refund of your fee from Morrisons, a very different kettle of fish. I suspect the car park was for the "generic" shopping centre in which Morrisons is located. If so, the owner of the car park is unlikely to be Morrisons, and I suspect they will have little interest in any dispute (though you may just get lucky). You may otherwise be lucky, and the car park may be manually overseen, and you may not have been spotted, but if it is ANPR equipped, I would suspect that you will be seeing an "invoice" shortly. Now, this is still not a fine, and if you refuse to pay the only method of recovery is to take you to court. Up until now, this has been a rare occurrence, since it has been very difficult to identify the individual to proceed against. Since the change in law, however, this no longer applies; the keeper must provide the drivers name, or may have proceedings taken against him/herself. IMO, this makes it much more likely that a refusal to pay will result in a court appearance. I'd get ready to pay, or perhaps you'll be one of the early "test cases" I referred to in a previous post. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 747 - 2012-10-17 8:11 PM Thanks for that smart final remark. I am sure it made you feel better. It looks like you missed the BBC Watchdog programme that highlighted the antics of this company. ;-) Maybe instead of taking offence you should consider what I posted, i.e. if they have camera's you have given them your number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 colin - 2012-10-17 9:12 PM 747 - 2012-10-17 8:11 PM Thanks for that smart final remark. I am sure it made you feel better. It looks like you missed the BBC Watchdog programme that highlighted the antics of this company. ;-) Maybe instead of taking offence you should consider what I posted, i.e. if they have camera's you have given them your number. They always have cameras. I will avoid anywhere that I must go along with their system and actively take part by feeding my personal information into their ticket machine. If these expensive looking and more complex ticket machines are the new way around the recent changes to the law then they must be confident that they will get their investment back. If so, then expect to see them springing up everywhere. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The way I understand it is if you pay you are entering into a contract regarding parking and accepting there will be a charge levied if you overstay. Hence entering your registration number identifies you and confirms the contract. If you do not pay then there is no contract to park so you are then trespassing. If you are Trespassing then the private owner/operator of the land must prove financial loss because of your trespassing. If the car park was not full at the time you parked then they cannot prove they have lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Brambles - 2012-10-18 12:31 AM The way I understand it is if you pay you are entering into a contract regarding parking and accepting there will be a charge levied if you overstay. Hence entering your registration number identifies you and confirms the contract. If you do not pay then there is no contract to park so you are then trespassing. If you are Trespassing then the private owner/operator of the land must prove financial loss because of your trespassing. If the car park was not full at the time you parked then they cannot prove they have lost. ....If it is a chargeable car park, as in 747's case, there is an initial charge for parking and they can thus justifiably claim they have lost the parking charge. They can then pursue you for that, plus a "reasonable" amount in respect of the costs of that pursuit. If it does go to court, then no doubt costs (for the victor) will also come into question. As an aside, as the new act is worded, there may be some interesting debates on "damages" (to which the comment above on financial loss is based). As it is written, it appears to define any properly signposted penalty as a "parking charge". It also gives the (absolute) right to pursue such unpaid "parking charges" (not appearing to treat them as damages) - presumably on the basis that, if it was a "parking charge" relevant to the period in question, then a loss of that magnitude can be demonstrated. If the latter charge is not considered "unreasonable" under normal contract law, I suspect any discussion about lower compensation amounts on the basis of Tort would be futile. (though the legal profession may have some fun at the public's expense determining whether or not this is the case). ;-) edit: typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 747 - 2012-10-17 3:51 PM .....Although I am a law abiding citizen, I refused to buy a ticket because you HAVE to punch in your FULL car registration number in order to get a ticket. I do not subscribe to Conspiracy Theories but there is no way I would give that information out. As far as I am concerned it is the thin end of the wedge regarding privacy. Sorry but I really can't see your reasoning behind refusing to put in a reg' number,on "privacy" grounds ..? :-S (..they're not asking for your N.I number and a retinal scan!? (lol) ) ..and it's a bit late in the day to be coming out with,"..it's the thin end of the wedge regarding privacy"..8-) Our roads,towns,cities,stores are awash with CCTV cameras....every card transaction you make,will of cause leave a "record" of your movements...and taken along with "targeted" ads on the internet,"they" pretty much know what they want to know about you anyway.... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 pepe63 - 2012-10-18 9:38 AM 747 - 2012-10-17 3:51 PM .....Although I am a law abiding citizen, I refused to buy a ticket because you HAVE to punch in your FULL car registration number in order to get a ticket. I do not subscribe to Conspiracy Theories but there is no way I would give that information out. As far as I am concerned it is the thin end of the wedge regarding privacy. Sorry but I really can't see your reasoning behind refusing to put in a reg' number,on "privacy" grounds ..? :-S (..they're not asking for your N.I number and a retinal scan!? (lol) ) ..and it's a bit late in the day to be coming out with,"..it's the thin end of the wedge regarding privacy"..8-) Our roads,towns,cities,stores are awash with CCTV cameras....every card transaction you make,will of cause leave a "record" of your movements...and taken along with "targeted" ads on the internet,"they" pretty much know what they want to know about you anyway.... ;-) AND if you have a mobile phone & its turned on, they know to within a few hundred yards exactly where you are at any given time! ...........................................Eric Arthur Blair was absolutely right .....?.... ...*-) *-) ..... (aka George Orwell, buried in Sutton Courtenay, Oxon just near me)) ... "Not many people know that"....Michael Caine, lived just round the corner from me in North Stoke, Oxon..... not many.................) 8-) 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 laimeduck - 2012-10-18 11:11 AM ....AND if you have a mobile phone & its turned on, they know to within a few hundred yards exactly where you are at any given time! ...........................................Eric Arthur Blair was absolutely right .....?.... ...*-) 8-) Exactly...which makes someone refusing to enter their car reg' number into a carpark ticket machine,seem ever so slightly futile... :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 pepe63 - 2012-10-18 11:24 AM laimeduck - 2012-10-18 11:11 AM ....AND if you have a mobile phone & its turned on, they know to within a few hundred yards exactly where you are at any given time! ...........................................Eric Arthur Blair was absolutely right .....?.... ...*-) 8-) Exactly...which makes someone refusing to enter their car reg' number into a carpark ticket machine,seem ever so slightly futile... :-S It may seem futile to you but that is because of the many inroads already made into our privacy. They keep chipping away at any freedoms we have left. In this case it is to make money from us. The big selling point for supermarkets used to be the abundance of free parking. Now I have to go to a machine, type in my reg. number and pay to obtain a ticket so that I can have the privilege of shopping in Morrisons store. I then have to claim back my parking fee from them. Sorry Morrisons, I will just go elsewhere because your prices are no better than any other supermarket. Morrisons chose to invite a company with a dubious history to manage their car park. If they align themselves with Parking Eye, then they are not a company I want to use. If Orwell was still alive he would be grinning and saying 'I told you so'. One issue that I would like to know is: If you drive into one of these car parks, do not stop and drive out again (one way system), will you receive an 'invoice for £50? The camera watches you enter, the second camera watches you leave and there is no record of a ticket with your reg. number. The fact that it only takes a minute or two is neither here nor there as far as these companies care. It does annoy me slightly when people just lie down and accept anything. Maybe it is because the majority act like Sheep that encourages unethical companies to fleece us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 747 - 2012-10-18 12:49 PM ...It does annoy me slightly when people just lie down and accept anything. Maybe it is because the majority act like Sheep that encourages unethical companies to fleece us? (lol)... Been on many anti-establishment marches lately? .. or by not entering your reg' number,were "striking a blow for freedom and liberty" and generally "Sticking it to the man!"..... (lol) ...You're hardly living under the radar mate...you're online for heaven's sake... *-) If you're REALLY that concerned,it's best if log off now...smash your hard drive..and you're SIM card...fake your death...and move abroad,somewhere remote.. ...But don't forget to fill the forms in,so that you can still claim your health care cover/pension/winter fuel payment etc... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 pepe63 - 2012-10-18 1:02 PM 747 - 2012-10-18 12:49 PM ...It does annoy me slightly when people just lie down and accept anything. Maybe it is because the majority act like Sheep that encourages unethical companies to fleece us? (lol)... Been on many anti-establishment marches lately? .. or by not entering your reg' number,were "striking a blow for freedom and liberty" and generally "Sticking it to the man!"..... (lol) ...You're hardly living under the radar mate...you're online for heaven's sake... *-) If you're REALLY that concerned,it's best if log off now...smash your hard drive..and you're SIM card...fake your death...and move abroad,somewhere remote.. ...But don't forget to fill the forms in,so that you can still claim your health care cover/pension/winter fuel payment etc... ;-) You have missed out several hundred other methods of keeping an eye on Joe Public. That is my whole point. Just don't moan if one of them comes along and bites you on the backside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 747 - 2012-10-18 1:36 PM You have missed out several hundred other methods of keeping an eye on Joe Public. That is my whole point. Just don't moan if one of them comes along and bites you on the backside. ..and yet,bizzarely,YOU still seem concerned about someone getting hold of your vehicle reg' number?.....which I assume you do display on you vehicle,every minute,of every day....? *-) Most odd..... Anyway....been Off Topic for long enough now... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Blimey this one goes on for ever. Can't be bothered to even try to read it all. Got better things to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Colin Leake - 2012-10-18 7:27 PM Blimey this one goes on for ever. Can't be bothered to even try to read it all. Got better things to do. Well if you dont read you cant learn and therefore cant pass an opinion. What a dull life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The ticket machines which you have to enter your vehicle reg into have been around for yonks, the only difficulty is remembering your reg no in the first place! If you park in a car park, knowing that you have to obtain a ticket and refuse to do so, but still park, then you have only yourself to blame if you get 'fined'. No ifs, no buts, no excuses, you can stay or leave, if you stay then 'play by the rules' if not then 'sling your hook'! The reason a lot of places have brought in external companies to do the car park monitoring (such as Morrisons) is due to the abuse which has been experienced by them of people parking in their car parks but then don't use their shop - why should they provide the facility at great expense (car parks ain't cheap to create or maintain!) and then have other businesses in the area benefiting and them not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Odd string, totally misplaced: but a fascinating insight into other peoples' private paranoias and almost inexhaustible capacity for self-deception. Thanks for the read Guys! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 When Morrisons took over our local supermarket one of the first things they did was introduce parking attendants to 'police' the car park, it was then pointed out that one of the planning conditions was free car parking, neven seen them since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam151 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 what would happen if you decided to go away for a few days say a family of four, before you reach your destination you stop at asdas to do some shopping, as youve been driving all day you use their cafe before shopping have a 2 course meal + coffee then you start shopping, as you havent used this store before you take your time going round the whole shop in total you have spent a couple o hundred pounds on returning to your vehicle you see ap arking ticket for overstaying by 30 mins now can asda reasonably state that they have lost by you being in the shop for the whole duration of your stay, spending more than you usually would imo stick to your guns and get asda to prove they have lost out by you overstaying by 30 mins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 I would return to the store and explain the reason for my overstay and the money I have spent in store. Any manager would scrap the charge so really not a problem unless you want to create an issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The manager would tell you to read the signs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 sshortcircuit - 2012-10-18 7:50 PM Well if you dont read you cant learn and therefore cant pass an opinion. What a dull life. sshortcircuit - 2012-10-18 11:23 PMI would return to the store and explain the reason for my overstay and the money I have spent in store. Any manager would scrap the charge so really not a problem unless you want to create an issue But surely if you haven't read the signs, you haven't taken the time to learn their parking policy, so your opinion is horse s*it. At least the supermarkets have the courtesy to be slightly more open about rogering us; as opposed to bankers, politicians, energy firms, the super-rich et al; who roger us in an altogether more seedy fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 .....I would like to draw everyone's attention to the Terms and Conditions of the Forum's Acceptable Use policy. In small print at the bottom of page 4234, (clause 824.3, subsection w) it states that a penalty charge of £70 will be payable by all people who continue to post on a thread well after the subject has been "done to death". To identify the person(s) responsible, The ISP associated with the IP address from which a post emanated, will be contacted and the name and address of the person with the broadband account determined. This person will then be pursued for the "penalty charge". You may, therefore, be receiving an invoice shortly. There would normally be a £35 reduction for early payment of the penalty, but, in recognition of the OT (and OTT!) nature of many of the postings involved in this case, and the fact that for many people this is not the first offence, this will not be available in this case. You have been warned. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sshortcircuit Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Not sure where you are coming from Crinkly. My comment about not reading related to the posters not being prepared to read this forum posting and had actually nothing to do with the OP There appears to be a great mistrust in that supermarkets don't care about customers and just want to take us for every penny. On two occasions after passing through the till I noted that I had just underspent £40 which would have given me a reduction in fuel. Approached staff who with no hesitation authorized this. I may be a bit naive but I play within the rules and don't expect supermarkets to provide something for nothing. They have to be profitable otherwise whats the point, however the level of profit is another matter but then you have the choice to go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 sshortcircuit - 2012-10-19 9:09 AMNot sure where you are coming from Crinkly... That's OK, crinkly is quite used to such responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Robinhood - 2012-10-19 9:04 AM .....I would like to draw everyone's attention to the Terms and Conditions of the Forum's Acceptable Use policy. In small print at the bottom of page 4234, (clause 824.3, subsection w) it states that a penalty charge of £70 will be payable by all people who continue to post on a thread well after the subject has been "done to death". To identify the person(s) responsible, The ISP associated with the IP address from which a post emanated, will be contacted and the name and address of the person with the broadband account determined. This person will then be pursued for the "penalty charge". You may, therefore, be receiving an invoice shortly. There would normally be a £35 reduction for early payment of the penalty, but, in recognition of the OT (and OTT!) nature of many of the postings involved in this case, and the fact that for many people this is not the first offence, this will not be available in this case. You have been warned. ;-) Oh how I wish that were true. :D BTW I am skint so you will have to pursue a CCJ in my case. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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