whisturx Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I am part exchanging my van at the end of February/beginning of March in Northern Germany near Kiel.Had a very good deal at the Dusseldorf show. I note since my last import the DVLA have changed the goal posts and I have to have lights/fog/reversing lights and speedo change prior to registration. All that is in hand but I am not sure about driving at that time of year without winter tyres on the old van going and coming back in the new. Does anyone know the law in Germany? Obviously it is autobahn all the way and hopefully no more than 4 days in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camocam1 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Don't know but surely a question for the dealer in germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 You will be OK provided it does not snow. So depends on which part of Germany you are traveling to. More detail at the following links http://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/winter-tyres/laws-and-legislation http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/safety/winter-tyres-and-snow-chains.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Have just had a reply from the German dealer. The Fiat Alco chassis comes with Michelin Agilis Camping tyres which are labelled with M +S which although not a lot of good in snow, is legal to use in a German winter. I assume Mud and Slush/Snow ? Thanks for the web sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 whisturx - 2012-10-09 10:58 AM ...I note since my last import the DVLA have changed the goal posts and I have to have lights/fog/reversing lights and speedo change prior to registration... I don't know when you last imported a motorhome, but it's been a longstanding requirement for UK-registering an imported vehicle that its headlamps, rear fog-lamp and speedometer must comply with UK regulations regarding beam-pattern, position and mph-marking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Imported my current van in March 2010 and still have German headlights and KPH speedo. I had the fog and reversing lights switched over when bought. I would have to change the headlights in March 2013 for the MOT. As I drive 95% of the time in Europe I left the headlights alone. The speedo is not part of the MOT certificate in UK yet. As I am returning the vehicle to the German dealer he only has to switch the reversing and fog light back. A friend imported his vehicle in April this year and is still on the German lights and KPH speedo. So the DVLA Mutual Recognition Scheme must have appeared in the last few months. This new certificate checked and signed by a UK MOT station is required before any registration takes place and takes a week minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Then, oh gentle Ian, your vehicle did not then comply with UK regs for registration, and is technically (and actually) illegally registered in UK. The requirements you cite were in force when I imported our first in 2005, and have not changed since. Naughty Ian! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Brian. Thanks for your advice All my three previous vans have been imported using the services of Nick Legg of Bundesvan who has supplied all the paperwork , registration ,VAT, number plates,and payment in euros, etc. I believe he did your import for your Hobby, and his services were recommended by you ? I am using his services for 2013. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 A member of the Hymer club imported a new van in May and registered it without any mods, must depend on which side the bed the DVLA man got out of. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 whisturx - 2012-10-09 5:15 PM Imported my current van in March 2010 and still have German headlights and KPH speedo. I had the fog and reversing lights switched over when bought. I would have to change the headlights in March 2013 for the MOT. Must admit I find it odd how you managed to get a vehicle through an MOT with LH headlight unit. My car has just failed an MOT simply through the driver door 'sticking' when unlocked. Something as insignificant as that is now a failure. When my son was based in Germany with the Forces, he took his car there and had to fit a pair of LH headlight units to comply with the German test which had to be done within a period of three months as even though they are BFPO, they are considered 'resident' and have to comply with German road traffic law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Paul .I have not had an MOT on my current van as its not due till March 2013 . The A Class Frankia has Hella headlights which can be altered to UK spec. I have my van serviced by Essanjay, Poole ,Dorset who, if I was keeping the van can fit a lever which adjusted one way will comply with UK regs and the other for Euro regs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 whisturx - 2012-10-09 8:35 PM Paul .I have not had an MOT on my current van as its not due till March 2013 . The A Class Frankia has Hella headlights which can be altered to UK spec. I have my van serviced by Essanjay, Poole ,Dorset who, if I was keeping the van can fit a lever which adjusted one way will comply with UK regs and the other for Euro regs.. That explains all then.......apologies for the misunderstanding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 whisturx - 2012-10-09 5:15 PM Imported my current van in March 2010 and still have German headlights and KPH speedo. I had the fog and reversing lights switched over when bought. I would have to change the headlights in March 2013 for the MOT. As I drive 95% of the time in Europe I left the headlights alone. The speedo is not part of the MOT certificate in UK yet. As I am returning the vehicle to the German dealer he only has to switch the reversing and fog light back. A friend imported his vehicle in April this year and is still on the German lights and KPH speedo. So the DVLA Mutual Recognition Scheme must have appeared in the last few months. This new certificate checked and signed by a UK MOT station is required before any registration takes place and takes a week minimum. I don't know the date when the Mutual Recognition System came into force (motorhome form here) http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_202481.pdf but, prior to UK-registration of an imported vehicle, there has been a legal obligation on the part of the importer to ensure that the vehicle complies with the regulations clearly laid down in the Department for Transport's 'information pack'. When a new vehicle being imported is in LHD format and sourced from Continental Europe, attaining compliance will normally involve headlamp replacement/adaptation, speedometer replacement, and perhaps attention to the rear fog-lamp position. I won't say that this obligation has "always been present", but it's been present for as long as I've been motorcaravanning (since 1998). As you say, the UK MOT test does not include confirmation that a vehicle's speedometer carriesl km/h and mph scales. The MOT test also permits a vehicle's right-dipping headlamp beam-pattern (ie. a standard LHD pattern) to be 'temporarily modified' to a MOT-acceptable pattern via 'masks' or 'beam benders'. However, use of 'masks' or 'beam benders' to adapt right-dipping headlamps is not acceptable as far as UK-registration is concerned (refer to link above). Consequently, there are lots of UK-registered motorhomes that fail to meet the UK-registration requirements but happily pass the UK MOT test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 I suspect the Mutual Recognition Scheme came into force on the 29 April 2012 . The date quoted in the link in your post which I had already printed off for the Application and Payment form. As a friend imported his van from Germany at the beginning of April 2012 without having to produce the new documentation. I agree there are hundreds of vans around the country with lights etc changed at 3 years for the MOT but not with speedos altered to MPH. I have owned 3 of them ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 whisturx - 2012-10-10 1:52 PM ...I agree there are hundreds of vans around the country with lights etc changed at 3 years for the MOT but not with speedos altered to MPH. I have owned 3 of them ! I think you may be misunderstanding the scope of the UK MOT test regarding headlamps. The MOT "headlamp aim" rules are summarised here: http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_180.htm As long as the headlamps of the vehicle presented for inspection meet the criteria specified in those rules, the fact that its headlamps fail to meet the UK-registration beam-pattern requirements is not taken into account. If sticking 'masks' or 'beam benders' on the headlamps allow the MOT criteria to be met, that's sufficient to gain an MOT pass. The only need to replace 'LHD-pattern' headlamps to gain an MOT pass would be if the addition of masks/benders did not result in the required pattern. As far as I am aware there are no plans to alter the MOT rules in this respect. Prior to the Mutual Recognition Scheme (MRS), various methods were permissible regarding how a km/h-only speedometer might be made to comply with UK-registration requirements, such as adding a hand-written mph scale or 'sticky dots' at significant speed-reading points. The MRS prohibits such DIY ploys, but the MOT inspection ignores (and AFAIAA will continue to ignore) the speedometer scale(s). As the speedometer of modern vehicles tends to be part of a sealed one-piece instrument-cluster, adding an overlay to the speedometer face-plate may not be practicable, while the wording of options 2b and 2C seems to conflict with the requirement for a UK-compliant speedometer able to provide readings in km/h as well as mph. It's very likely that, to meet the speedometer requirements, replacement of the complete instrument-cluster will be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 I have already bought a speedo replacement from http://www.lockwoodinternational.co.uk/ducato-2006-on-kmh-to-mph-conversion-dial-for-imported-vehicle-part-no-c120-more-details-i802.html which is approved for use by the Mutual Recognition Scheme. So I will not require a complete instrument cluster. Re headlights.For my previous Hobbys I bought UK headlights and changed the whole headlight for Europe and back again in UK. Seems by your comments I did'nt need to. My current A Class round Hella lights have to be remounted as its not possible to fit beambenders. I will have Essanjay fit a switch over system UK/EU on the new van to be legal in both countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 whisturx - 2012-10-09 7:28 PM Brian. Thanks for your advice All my three previous vans have been imported using the services of Nick Legg of Bundesvan who has supplied all the paperwork , registration ,VAT, number plates,and payment in euros, etc. I believe he did your import for your Hobby, and his services were recommended by you ? I am using his services for 2013. Yes and no, Ian! :-) Our first van I self-imported from France in 2005, and got the DVLA import pack at that time. The pack explains what is legally required for UK registration, which is as you reported above regarding speedo, headlights, and rear fog light. Due to insurance complications that arose in late '05/06, it became impossible to get UK insurance on a chassis number for any part of the journey back to UK, only once the vehicle was in UK , and very difficult to get UK insurance from the UK port of entry to home etc, so I turned to Bundesvan for the second van,in 2007. I asked Nick if his price included the speedo and lights and he said it did not, but he could do this if required, advising that it would be cheaper if I DIYd the job. I opted for DIY, except for the speedo, as I couldn't then get a Mk 7 Transit overlay, and the swap is not straightforward - due to electronics - so local Ford dealer did speedo. The Hobby has two rear fog lights, so that presented no problem, and all I required were a pair of Tranny headlamps, which take about 15 mins to swap. So right dippers for over the ditch, and left dippers for UK MoT, and any UK use. Never quite straightforward, is it! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whisturx Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 To conclude what started out about winter tyres and diverged into importing a van. And before we bore everyone to death ! I have an answer on the tyres....thanks, and just pointed out that as of 29 April a Mutual Recognition Form has to be completed before registration rather than the rather loose regs before. I know the hundreds of vans still using KPH speedos will not change unless the MOT does. Stupid really that I buy my meat in kgs , timber in metres , deisel in litres, and have to drive in MPH ! Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 whisturx - 2012-10-11 9:31 AM To conclude what started out about winter tyres and diverged into importing a van. And before we bore everyone to death ! I have an answer on the tyres....thanks, and just pointed out that as of 29 April a Mutual Recognition Form has to be completed before registration rather than the rather loose regs before. I know the hundreds of vans still using KPH speedos will not change unless the MOT does. Stupid really that I buy my meat in kgs , timber in metres , deisel in litres, and have to drive in MPH ! Thanks all. Welcome to Batty Britain! (lol) (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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