antony1969 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Many congratulations on the EU winning The Nobel Peace Prize . What for I don't know but well done , I'm sure there will be a big lavish celebration in Brussels HQ at our expense , enjoy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Staggering - It is given because the EU has apparently stopped wars from developing in Euro la la la la land. Perhaps they didn't see how the Greeks welcomed Merkel. Perhaps they have not seen the under 25 un-employment rates in countries like Spain etc. Just how long do they think the books can be fiddled with Q E before the $hit hits the fan? QE is the closed thing to State run Pyramid selling that I have ever seen. It will not end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 What has stopped wars has been NATO and the US and British forces occupying Germany since the end of the last one. And of course the Iron Curtain prevented Germany being big enough to try it all again, until now. Where the Norwegians feel EU has made any input to this is a mystery to me, but then again I never understood Norwegians at the best of time. Their sense of humour if it does exist, is pretty weird. All i can state is that their contributions to world order have been the invention of dynamite and the ability to get 'null point' at the Eurovision Song Contest. However, as they have very sensibly invested all their oil revenues instead of frittering it away as we did, then giving their people pensions for eternity is probably a very smart move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 After two horrendous European / World wars, there can be no doubt that the setting up of the EU has helped to integrate the peoples of Europe and given us 60 odd years of peace. However, I assume that most of the people who set up the EU have now passed on, so who exactly will go and collect this award will be very interesting to see. ;-) I agree with Antony that an awful lot of taxpayers money will no doubt be spent in Brussels by faceless officials patting themselves on the back for something they didn't create. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 malc d - 2012-10-13 4:45 PM After two horrendous European / World wars, there can be no doubt that the setting up of the EU has helped to integrate the peoples of Europe and given us 60 odd years of peace. However, I assume that most of the people who set up the EU have now passed on, so who exactly will go and collect this award will be very interesting to see. ;-) I agree with Antony that an awful lot of taxpayers money will no doubt be spent in Brussels by faceless officials patting themselves on the back for something they didn't create. :-( 'Integrated'???? I assume then the troubles in Greece, Spain and Italy as well as Portugal and Ireland are not included. It is curious that in every poll carried out in every EU country the majority of the people do not want the EU, but as a non democratic institution, the EU ignores that minor detail and continues to bribe, corrupt and spend. Do you really believe Clegg would be so pro EU if he was not getting paid by them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Stop wars in Europe..!! Wasn't there a couple of skirmishes in Bosnia, Croatia etc, and the Turk/Greek thing in Cyprus plus the Toxteth and Brixton riot's. Then there was Paddy Kennedy and Ernie McKeknie outside The Waterloo last Saturday (that were a real bloodbath) Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Dave225 - 2012-10-13 5:23 PM malc d - 2012-10-13 4:45 PM After two horrendous European / World wars, there can be no doubt that the setting up of the EU has helped to integrate the peoples of Europe and given us 60 odd years of peace. However, I assume that most of the people who set up the EU have now passed on, so who exactly will go and collect this award will be very interesting to see. ;-) I agree with Antony that an awful lot of taxpayers money will no doubt be spent in Brussels by faceless officials patting themselves on the back for something they didn't create. :-( 'Integrated'???? I assume then the troubles in Greece, Spain and Italy as well as Portugal and Ireland are not included. It is curious that in every poll carried out in every EU country the majority of the people do not want the EU, but as a non democratic institution, the EU ignores that minor detail and continues to bribe, corrupt and spend. Do you really believe Clegg would be so pro EU if he was not getting paid by them? The troubles in Greece, Spain , Italy etc ( including GB ) are caused by the way those countries are run, not just because they are in the EU. I don't like the way the EU is run any more than you appear to, but the fact remains that it's existence has contributed to peace in Europe over a long period. I regard it as a corrupt gravy train for faceless bureaucrats with their noses deep in the trough. ( That is what it has become - not necessarily what was planned ). I'm sure there must be a few well meaning individuals in there somewhere. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 nowtelse2do - 2012-10-13 6:12 PM Stop wars in Europe..!! Wasn't there a couple of skirmishes in Bosnia, Croatia etc, and the Turk/Greek thing in Cyprus plus the Toxteth and Brixton riot's. Then there was Paddy Kennedy and Ernie McKeknie outside The Waterloo last Saturday (that were a real bloodbath) Dave Were those countries in the EU when they went to war ? (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 The world heading slowly for another war *-)...........and it'll go on for a hundred years 8-)........ A rerun of the Christians against the Muslims is on the cards *-)............Count me out I'm an Atheist :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 malc d - 2012-10-13 6:13 PM Dave225 - 2012-10-13 5:23 PM malc d - 2012-10-13 4:45 PM After two horrendous European / World wars, there can be no doubt that the setting up of the EU has helped to integrate the peoples of Europe and given us 60 odd years of peace. However, I assume that most of the people who set up the EU have now passed on, so who exactly will go and collect this award will be very interesting to see. ;-) I agree with Antony that an awful lot of taxpayers money will no doubt be spent in Brussels by faceless officials patting themselves on the back for something they didn't create. :-( 'Integrated'???? I assume then the troubles in Greece, Spain and Italy as well as Portugal and Ireland are not included. It is curious that in every poll carried out in every EU country the majority of the people do not want the EU, but as a non democratic institution, the EU ignores that minor detail and continues to bribe, corrupt and spend. Do you really believe Clegg would be so pro EU if he was not getting paid by them? The troubles in Greece, Spain , Italy etc ( including GB ) are caused by the way those countries are run, not just because they are in the EU. I don't like the way the EU is run any more than you appear to, but the fact remains that it's existence has contributed to peace in Europe over a long period. I regard it as a corrupt gravy train for faceless bureaucrats with their noses deep in the trough. ( That is what it has become - not necessarily what was planned ). I'm sure there must be a few well meaning individuals in there somewhere. :-( I hate to contradict you but it is because those countries are in the EU straitjacket that there is trouble. Before the EU existed they were happily doddling along in their own, albeit sometimes chaotic, ways. The truth is the EU has only been in existence since the introduction of the single currency which was basically adopted at Maastrict. Prior to that we had the Common Market which was a totally different thing so to state the EU has maintained the peace is I regret, nonsense. The EU has no army as far as I know so cannot maintain any peace, even if it wished to. In fact Germany which is the dominant EU country has refused to send any troops to any fighting conflict in the last 50 years because it is scared of the consequences. I do not recall EU troops facing the Russians across the Berlin Wall, are far as I know it was US and British troops who did that until 1989. I do not think JFK made his famous speech in Berlin because he recognised the EU troops doing such agreat job. The EU is a contradiction in terms and until that is sorted, it can never work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 malc d - 2012-10-13 6:19 PM nowtelse2do - 2012-10-13 6:12 PM Stop wars in Europe..!! Wasn't there a couple of skirmishes in Bosnia, Croatia etc, and the Turk/Greek thing in Cyprus plus the Toxteth and Brixton riot's. Then there was Paddy Kennedy and Ernie McKeknie outside The Waterloo last Saturday (that were a real bloodbath) Dave Were those countries in the EU when they went to war ? (?) No Malc they wern't, but NATO had troops there and some of them were in the EU. Dave ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Dave225 - 2012-10-13 7:41 PM malc d - 2012-10-13 6:13 PM Dave225 - 2012-10-13 5:23 PM malc d - 2012-10-13 4:45 PM After two horrendous European / World wars, there can be no doubt that the setting up of the EU has helped to integrate the peoples of Europe and given us 60 odd years of peace. However, I assume that most of the people who set up the EU have now passed on, so who exactly will go and collect this award will be very interesting to see. ;-) I agree with Antony that an awful lot of taxpayers money will no doubt be spent in Brussels by faceless officials patting themselves on the back for something they didn't create. :-( 'Integrated'???? I assume then the troubles in Greece, Spain and Italy as well as Portugal and Ireland are not included. It is curious that in every poll carried out in every EU country the majority of the people do not want the EU, but as a non democratic institution, the EU ignores that minor detail and continues to bribe, corrupt and spend. Do you really believe Clegg would be so pro EU if he was not getting paid by them? The troubles in Greece, Spain , Italy etc ( including GB ) are caused by the way those countries are run, not just because they are in the EU. I don't like the way the EU is run any more than you appear to, but the fact remains that it's existence has contributed to peace in Europe over a long period. I regard it as a corrupt gravy train for faceless bureaucrats with their noses deep in the trough. ( That is what it has become - not necessarily what was planned ). I'm sure there must be a few well meaning individuals in there somewhere. :-( ...................... to state the EU has maintained the peace is I regret, nonsense. One of the principles of the Common Market / EU or whatever you want to call it, was to maintain peace between its members, some of whom traditionally got involved in wars with each other Unless there has been a war between EU member countries that I haven't heard about, peace HAS been maintained within the EU. ...... and if the EU countries did start fighting among themselves, whose side would an EU army be on ? ( That's probably why there is no EU army ). As far as I recall, the troops facing any threat from the former USSR were members of NATO... a separate organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 malc d - 2012-10-13 10:31 PM ( That's probably why there is no EU army ). YET ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 pelmetman - 2012-10-13 10:41 PM malc d - 2012-10-13 10:31 PM ( That's probably why there is no EU army ). YET ;-) Absolutely. I'm sure there are a lot of ' officials ' in the EU would love to have an army, so they could go and interfere in the business of countries outside the EU ! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The prospect of an EU "army" is for me a step too far. As I say I am staggered that the EU as it is NOW - is getting the prize because it is what it has morphed into that is nurturing discontent in the Euro zone. The concept of the common market was a very good thing indeed. Most trading blocks around the world are doing well. The Eurozone is not doing so well because it is no longer a common market trading zone but a political experiment that is going very badly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Forgive an idiot joining in on such a sophisticated subject as this but as I seem to recall, from my small memory, the idea behind the EU was that all nations would be so bound together by their trading links that it would not be in their best financial interests to declare war on anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Syd - 2012-10-14 6:05 PM Forgive an idiot joining in on such a sophisticated subject as this but as I seem to recall, from my small memory, the idea behind the EU was that all nations would be so bound together by their trading links that it would not be in their best financial interests to declare war on anyone. More or less right Syd, but it was to make it against their financial interests to declare war ON EACH OTHER ( as they had a habit of doing in the past ). ( The EU can't declare war on " anyone " else, because they haven't got an army ). ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 The danger as I see it with an EU "army" is that it could be used to support unpopular political action against others not part of the Eurozone. The best option is to simply have NATO which is made up of many nations - nations that have differing currencies and differing economic requirements. The thought of a Euro Army raised by a political elite from an organisation that has one currency, that is getting weaker by the day gives me great concern - it could be far too easier step for that army to be deployed to support a political ideal. The different nations within NATO helps prevent this. You have to ask the question - why the hell would the EU need an army unless it felt it may have the need to use it? NATO was a common interest organisation set up against the old Soviet block. It had a clear idea - a clear mandate. I have an inkling of what the EU would want with its own army - and it gives me considerable concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 CliveH - 2012-10-14 8:32 PM I have an inkling of what the EU would want with its own army - and it gives me considerable concern. I doubt it will ever happen. After all, there is no ' Government ' of the EU, so who would tell them what to do? It's my belief that the people who would like to create an EU army are those who would benefit most from the huge increase in ' public sector ' jobs in the EU that would be incurred. Just imagine how many bureaucrats it would create with nice fat salaries ( and pensions ) all at the expense of European taxpayers. More ' jobs for the boys '. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 You only have to look what has happened in Greece to realise that the EU is quite capable of overthrowing democracy. Greece is being run by EU numpties. Greece no longer has a say in its own destiny. The scenario that concerns me is if the Greeks rebel against this and want to take back control and leave euro la la la land - would these same EU numpties use an EU army if one existed? It is bad enough that the EU can demolish democracy in the way that it can now - let alone give them some military options as well. No - it has to be NATO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave225 Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Somebody mentioned the EU has no government so who is making all the laws that control all our lives I wonder. They call it a Commision but where is the difference in real life? The thing that would scare the life out of me is ever allowing the EU 'generals' to control any form of armed forces. Knowing the EU in the past they would pick as Commander in Chief someone fro m a country that has no military experience whatsoever,as they did with fishing by picking an Austrian to tell us how to run our seas. Plus as the 'troops' would be from all countries which language would they use? Would it be 'fire' or 'fuer' or whatever. By the time they had figured it out, they would all be dead. Plus as the French usually only know how to surrender it could make any campaign pretty much a waste of time. Seriously, I would be terrified our soldiers would be assigned all the dirty work as usual while the Germans get even fatter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.