Guest JudgeMental Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 My gas bottle is leaking from where my finger is pointing . Can anyone tell me where the non return valve is please (Stako bottle) I always thought ir was internal, in which case it must of failed I guess....or is it in angle joint above where my finger is pointing? it will mean releasing all the gas to reconnect properly :-| This is on the filling side. black hose is from outside filler point going on to feed second bottle.... Oh! does anyone know who still sells these bottles and parts please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hi Judge, the non return valve is in the fitting you are pointing at. The leakage you can see is probably the remaining LPG in the filler hoses. You can disconnect the fill hoses carefully, letting the remaining LPG gas off (it may take a while as the hoses are holding liquid gas which will expand by 330 times when released to atmosphere and a 1 metre fill hose can hold close to 1 litre of liquid gas ). Use two spanners to unswcrew the elbow fitting so as not to disturb the valve in the bottle, then clean up the threads and reseal with 2 layers of GAS PTFE tape and tighten it down again using two spanners. You will obviously have to pressurise the fill hoses again to check if its cured it. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hi Dave, great answer, if there is a non return valve in the shown fitting, would the gas in the hose [ still liquid ] not bleed into the bottle as it empties,thus emptying the hoses of liquid gas. or are these hoses always live, I ask because I am about to get refillables and want to learn as much about the system as possible to best understand it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Thanks Dave, I now think I have two problems. one the leak from around base of valve where it enters bottle. and 2 the valve not working. I had a chat with very helpful chap from "gas it" who suggested opening filler hose quickly and valve might then work as its unusual for non return valve to fail? problem being I have a full tank and need to remove valve either way... either replace valve (if not working) or to reseal.the leaxis from from blue area where valve enters bottle may as well swap hoses as they are getting old as well... Vindi: there will be residual gas as Dave said in filler side, but the non return valve in bottle SHOULD mean it can not be feed back into from bottle ...The liquid is in the bottle , filled to 80% and only vapour in pipes...I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 ...Vindi: there will be residual gas as Dave said in filler side, but the non return vale in bottle SHOULD mean it can not be feed back into from bottle I think... Hi Judge, I was meaning ,could the gas not go INTO the bottle as the bottle pressure drops as it empties and NOT the other way,so emptying the hoses of Liquid Gas, does that make sense ? very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 When freshly filled the fill hoses will contain liquid form LPG, as the contents of the bottle are used the liquid form LPG in the hoses will pass into the bottle, (assuming no leakage) the hoses will contain a proprtion of liquid form LPG until the bottle is almost empty, only then will the in bottle pressure drop significantly and the liquid fo0rm LPG be passed into the bottle as gaseous LPG, some of which will condense back to liquid form but the majority will re4main gaseous. Judge, I doubt if the non return valve is faulty, as you say your cylinder is full then the hoses will also be near to full unless it is a while since you filled the system, my guess is you have recently filled up? As I said before a 1 metre fill hose can hold nearly 1 litre of liquid LPG which will turn to vapour as it leaks to atmosphere and expand by 330 times as it does so. A freshly filled system with 1 metre of fill hose will take quite a while to bleed off the litre from the fill hose, even if the joint is cracked open by half a turn. Just do it in a well ventilated area away6 from any drains (LPG being heavier than air could accumulate in drains and cause a nasty explosion) or sources of ignition. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Thanks Dave that is what I suspected and it is good to have that confirmed, good luck with your problem Judge, hope you get it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Dave where can i get the blue LPG paint to seal seal please? could I decant gas into 2 empty calor bottles rather then releasing it into atmosphere*-) any recommendations on where to order new hoses from please... there goes our week in the sun with Mel on south coast :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 OK! its not the valve! just released it quickly (nervously:-S) and it was just gas in filler pipe..as Dave explained there is quite a lot! so a bit scary if you dont know. so now have to get gas out and reseal valve *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I know,"decanting" it into something else,whilst the fitting is resealed,is the correct cause of action...but I just wonder if the fitting hasn't just been loosened off slightly by the action of the 90degree elbow & hose assembly..? ..Would it reseal if was just dogged up a bit?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 pepe63 - 2012-10-23 3:39 PM I know,"decanting" it into something else,whilst the fitting is resealed,is the correct cause of action...but I just wonder if the fitting hasn't just been loosened off slightly by the action of the 90degree elbow & hose assembly..? ..Would it reseal if was just dogged up a bit?... feeling a bit braver now.......will give it a go! (famous last words:D) if I could find the blue paint sealer I could loosen it out a bit paint and reseal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I'd try gas PTFE tape first Eddie, you can identify gas PTFE tape as it is on a yellow reel, white reel is water tape (its the plastic reel that is a different colour not the tape itself). Two layers of tape is all that is needed. If you really want the blue sealant try Autogas 2000 at Thirsk. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Ta Dave you have been a gem and spot on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-10-23 3:42 PM pepe63 - 2012-10-23 3:39 PM I know,"decanting" it into something else,whilst the fitting is resealed,is the correct cause of action...but I just wonder if the fitting hasn't just been loosened off slightly by the action of the 90degree elbow & hose assembly..? ..Would it reseal if was just dogged up a bit?... feeling a bit braver now.......will give it a go! (famous last words:D) if I could find the blue paint sealer I could loosen it out a bit paint and reseal.... Squeaky bum time me thinks, .....what was that, did I just hear a bang? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 If that was the infamous MTH job I'd definitely just try nipping it up, as suggested, first. Autogas 2000 are top chaps if push comes to shove - they have every fitting known to man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Ha Ha ha yes it is.... But refitted in new van last year. Going to take it all out and remake all joints and new pigtails. Just have to order the bits and mate a heating engineer will sort it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 That should, at last, make good the initial work. It's deffo the safest option and easy for your mate once all the bits are to hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 well it is a 5 year old system so a bit of a refurb probably a good idea, and moving to other van probably did not help. Had to order hoses from "Gas it" as autogas 2000 dont do these POL filling hose. Warren in sales another gem (along with our diamond Dave) very helpful, sent him a few photos and he advised what I needed... I could not remove connector at end of hose and had to go round to mates who has a vice.. Warren also included a gas detector spray gratis in order... So parts ordered and just need starvin marvins address so I can take it around for him to do the work :-D I have stripped it all out and a mate who is a heating engineer will help re install. Does anyone know where you can get small tubes of the blue LPG sealant as have only seen it advertised on american websites.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 "Gas It" also have their own fledgling forum that may be helpful to some.. website: http://www.gasit.co.uk/index.php forum: http://www.gasit.co.uk/forum/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 I'm somewhat confused by your terminology Eddie, "POL" is the term normally used for Calor propane take off fittings and is a female left hand thread connection with a tapered seat. The filling hoses and associated fittings on STAKO, ALUGAS, and GASLOW cylinders are "JIC" type connections which is a right hand thread with tapered seat. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Hi Dave, for some reason mine are as you say the calor POL type..I just sent photo to Warren and he identified what I need as a straight swap, like for like easier I think? yes left hand thread into an adaptor...not a clue why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 Weird that because I actually specified POL fittings on my Stakos from Autogas 2000 as I refuse to 'do' the stupid 'autogum-and-unecessarily-expensive' bulkhead mounted regulator thing. I still run twin bottle mounted regulators. Autogas 2000 were happy to fit the POL take-offs from new and had boxes full, mind you, it was a few years ago now. Anyway, as long as the fittings, hoses, regulator(s) etc are compatible, it's not critical which way the endpoint is achieved. Quick pic of mine - separate filler hose to each bottle (fed from a T-piece from the main fill point hose), POL take-off on each bottle with separate 37mbar regs, low pressure side joins by T piece to tapped manifold feed. Really simple and easily fixed in the field (not that it's ever gone wrong). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I have the same system except my regulators are 30mb. I think it's much safer as all the hoses are running low pressure & you have a spare regulator to hand if one fails. Appears to be the standard set up when Continental dealers do an install. I've noticed even the latest Hymers still have an on bottle regulator as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 So Crinkly you manually change over? I had a nightmare this summer when the Truma secure motion valve failed on way to Italy...took about 2 days to find dealer with one and prepared to fit as well. These POL make sense as we are all used to them and they are a reliable connection I think......and a spare regulator cheap and easy to change also! Unlike the Truma which are to complicated, unreliable and expensive..... Re auto gas 2000, I sent a picture, and they suggested I go to local caravan shop. Thing being there are none anymore......."gas it" very good people though and prices good so will use these in future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Change-over is as simple as turning one bottle's main outlet tap off, and the other on. I prefer this as I like to know when one is empty - it's a prompt to top up at our leisure. As you say, on bottle regulators are cheap, reliable, and can be replaced in a couple of minutes. I didn't see any attraction in converting to a system that was more complex, expensive and a zillion times less reliable. Incidentally, we don't need to leave the bottles on whilst travelling as I have a diesel space heater for that job, and a calorifier for hot water supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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