No more British Transits!

[Tony Jones]

Sad news today. Glad mine was built in Southampton. Wonder if the new Transit will be as good, or if the model after that will just be another badge-engineered Sevel?

[Guest JudgeMental]

on BBC news this morning a good few manufacturers pulling out of the UK. We have given it all a way and soon will not have the purchasing power to buy anything back :-S

 

ford is 1400 jobs alone :-|

[Colin Leake]

I always buy British where possible. Last two cars were a Nissan, and Toyota and the next will be one of the new Honda CRVs . O.K. Not exactly British companies but at least they a all built the UK.

 

I don't buy Fords for that reason but it's remembering that Ford still do a lot,of manufacturing in the UK with their engine plants and are proposing to increase this generating more jobs than are being lost at Southampton.

[hallii]

Many have been made in the Ford-Otosan plant in Kocaeli, Turkey. Certainly mine was.

 

It matters little where they are made, it is the quality control and management that matter..

 

Many van and car makers have moved or gone completlely from the Midlands, no one cared very much then, and this latest closure will soon be forgotten.

 

Roll on climate change, we might be able to grow a few bananas in the Midlands.

 

H

[vindiboy]

I worked at the Southampton Transit Plant for 31 years, it was always on the cards to close the Plant because it is too small, hemmed in on one side by the Motorway and a Housing Estate on  the other, we were restricted by noise controls and Pollution problems, quite rightly so , we had problems with paint fall out particles falling on residents cars and houses despite great efforts on filtration, We used to build vehicles from scratch, from pressing the steel to  fitting the wheels, slowly the plant evolved to solely assembly, the Press shop went, the Tool room went, Engines and seats came in fully assembled, Robotics took over, lots of People lost their jobs [ all voluntary ]We were always in competition with our sister Plant in Ghent, this Plant was always lauded over us as  producing better quality, better costings, more productivity, this of course was  down to  Ghent Plant being about 5 times bigger than Southampton with less restrictions. But even Ghent has got the chop.

   Ford America will have been planning the demise of  the Plants in England for many years before this announcement because that is how Ford works, they have just pulled  the Wool over the Governments eyes  as they have been given 10 Million pounds  to help develop the new  engine they are planning, Vince Cable was on TV tonight talking about this and he said the Government had no idea Ford was about to pull the plug, well they wouldn't, Ford are magic at this sort of thing, keep em in the dark and feed them S@@T was always the Ford way.I enjoyed my years at Ford, It gave me a good living and still does 13 years after leaving at 55 years old, I feel sorry for the  500  People working there of course ,but most will be contract labour as Ford out  sourced most of the jobs over the years ,there were 4000 employees working there when I first started but with a voluntary Redundancy programme it was easy to get people to leave, the Unions were dead against this but I am afraid money talks , at least those about to lose their jobs will get a VERY good pay off , but  if they are in their forties it will be  very difficult to get a similar job, relocation with Ford is not really an option although  you will hear it mooted , who wants to go to Turkey to work for less money than they earn now ? Ford Transits will still be available, quality will still be good, they won't be any cheaper although Ford will build them for a lot less in Turkey.

[Bulletguy]

Tony Jones - 2012-10-25 6:23 PM

 

Sad news today. Glad mine was built in Southampton. Wonder if the new Transit will be as good, or if the model after that will just be another badge-engineered Sevel?

 

Very sad indeed Tony......but for those losing or already lost faith in British engineering, i'd recommend they watch this;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KTATXWICKU

 

 

Not quite Ford Tranists, but it shows just what we can do when we want to!!

[pepe63xnotuse]

hallii - 2012-10-25 7:23 PM

 

...It matters little where they are made, it is the quality control and management that matter..

 

Many van and car makers have moved or gone completlely from the Midlands, no one cared very much then, and this latest closure will soon be forgotten.

 

 

Well...I bet the blokes that are loosing their jobs(..and possibly their homes),think that it matters! *-)

 

I dare say they'll be folk on here(..folk who have made their money and now spend their time jollying around the continent),telling us that it was "..the union's fault..." *-)

[hallii]

pepe63 - 2012-10-26 9:35 AM

 

hallii - 2012-10-25 7:23 PM

 

...It matters little where they are made, it is the quality control and management that matter..

 

Many van and car makers have moved or gone completely from the Midlands, no one cared very much then, and this latest closure will soon be forgotten.

 

 

Well...I bet the blokes that are loosing their jobs(..and possibly their homes),think that it matters! *-)

 

I dare say they'll be folk on here(..folk who have made their money and now spend their time jollying around the continent),telling us that it was "..the union's fault..." *-)

 

The old Rover plant is not far from where I live, thousands lost their jobs, and many thousands more in the support industries around the Midlands. Some have found jobs stacking supermarket shelves, as postmen, bus drivers and so on. The older ones have not and simply exist on benefits.

 

Of course we care and of course it matters that men and women with families to support have lost their jobs. My point was that Rover was just left to go by the Government of the day after handing over millions of pounds in assets to the Phoenix Group Ltd, who promptly sold what they could making sure their own personal pension fund was secure.

 

No one made any fuss then, it was accepted with a shrug of the shoulders, and yes, some people did remark that it was all the fault of the unions.

 

I wish the workers at the Ford plant better success at finding new work, it is no fun losing your job, I have been there. But I expect that in a few weeks they will all be forgotten, just like the Rover workers.

 

I wonder if, say, a French car company like maybe, Renault, would be allowed to go to the wall? *-)

 

H

[Guest pelmetman]

hallii - 2012-10-26 10:10 AM

 

I wonder if, say, a French car company like maybe, Renault, would be allowed to go to the wall? *-)

 

H

 

I hear that Peugeot are getting a bailout ;-)....................and there was me thinking they weren't allowed to do that.......................?

 

From Today Online...........

 

Peugeot gets govt bailout as Europe crisis deepens

 

France to provide up to S$11b in aid to carmaker in exchange for greater influence in the company

by BLOOMBERG Updated 08:54 AM Oct 25, 2012

 

PARIS - The French government stepped in to rescue PSA Peugeot Citroen, Europe's second-largest carmaker, by guaranteeing as much as €7 billion (S$11.1 billion) in new bonds in exchange for greater influence over company strategy.

 

The state and workers will each receive a seat on the board of directors, and an outside committee will be set up with veto power over any "significant" changes in Peugeot's operations, the French Finance Ministry said today.

 

Peugeot will also not pay any dividends, repurchase shares or provide management board members with stock options as long as the government guarantee is in place, the carmaker said.

 

Peugeot needs the French state backing for its banking unit to keep down borrowing costs and offer customers competitive financing rates.

 

Underscoring the urgency of the funding need, the carmaker predicted yesterday that debt is set to increase by 20 per cent more this year than it forecast in July.

 

"The state will want to see this business run more in the interest of government, rather than in the interest of the shareholders," said analyst Erich Hauser with a neutral rating on Peugeot's shares. "The rising debt of Peugeot clearly shows that the core things are getting worse."

 

Peugeot dropped to €5.56 at the close of trading in Paris. The stock has plunged by 47 per cent this year, valuing the carmaker at €1.97 billion.

 

Peugeot is also working with lenders to increase the finance arm's credit line by €1 billion and renegotiate some of the terms of an existing €10.5 billion in credit to secure the funding until 2015, Chief Financial Officer Jean-Baptiste de Chatillon said.

 

The European Commission may scrutinise the guarantee plan under state aid rules if it gives the company an unfair financial advantage.

 

French Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici is discussing Peugeot today at a meeting with European Union Competition Commissioner Joaquin Almunia.

 

"We haven't received any formal notification of this issue," said Mr Almunia in Brussels. "But, of course, once we will receive information or communication, we will have to create a very careful assessment."

[Hawcara]

Funny that Peugeot get it, but when Landrover were bailed out by Tata.

It's the multiplier effect that all these industries have on the local economy. I don't really get all this lack of intervention on the part of Government.

I remember Jag,Rov,triumph in Coventry, now a shopping centre. Went to Cradley Heath few years ago, used to make all ship's chain there, now it comes from Turkey I think. :-D

[Rayjsj]

hallii - 2012-10-25 7:23 PM

 

Many have been made in the Ford-Otosan plant in Kocaeli, Turkey. Certainly mine was.

 

It matters little where they are made, it is the quality control and management that matter..

 

Many van and car makers have moved or gone completlely from the Midlands, no one cared very much then, and this latest closure will soon be forgotten.

 

Roll on climate change, we might be able to grow a few bananas in the Midlands.

 

H

How very thoughtful of you, 'it doesn't matter who else it happens to ,UNLESS it happens to me.

Most vehicles are built mainly by Robots these days, so quality SHOULD be good everywhere,

depends how many 'Inspectors' they employ, and how much 'Power' they have. (to get things Stopped. if they are wrong.) another case of a 'Drive to the bottom' in wage rates, and Government 'Bribes'.

Globalisation is doing the UK NO GOOD. Ray

[rupert123]

Rayjsj - 2012-10-26 1:40 PM

 

hallii - 2012-10-25 7:23 PM

 

Many have been made in the Ford-Otosan plant in Kocaeli, Turkey. Certainly mine was.

 

It matters little where they are made, it is the quality control and management that matter..

 

Many van and car makers have moved or gone completlely from the Midlands, no one cared very much then, and this latest closure will soon be forgotten.

 

Roll on climate change, we might be able to grow a few bananas in the Midlands.

 

H

How very thoughtful of you, 'it doesn't matter who else it happens to ,UNLESS it happens to me.

Most vehicles are built mainly by Robots these days, so quality SHOULD be good everywhere,

depends how many 'Inspectors' they employ, and how much 'Power' they have. (to get things Stopped. if they are wrong.) another case of a 'Drive to the bottom' in wage rates, and Government 'Bribes'.

Globalisation is doing the UK NO GOOD. Ray

 

Difficult to see how globalisation is doing no good to UK car production. Last year more cars produced in the UK than at any time since the 1970's, this year is set to beat that. The UK car industry is really thriving at the moment with new large investment at Jaguar, Honda and Nissan. Over 80% of cars produced in the UK are exported all over the world, some even back to Japan. The old car industry was wrecked by a mixture of bad managers and even worse trade unions. Not sure why anyone thinks a private company should be bailed out by government, no one ever offers a small business any money when they run into problems, no business should ever be bailed out with public money.

[Bulletguy]

pepe63 - 2012-10-26 9:35 AM

 

I dare say they'll be folk on here(..folk who have made their money and now spend their time jollying around the continent),telling us that it was "..the union's fault..." *-)

 

hallii - 2012-10-26 10:10 AM

 

The old Rover plant is not far from where I live, thousands lost their jobs, and many thousands more in the support industries around the Midlands. Some have found jobs stacking supermarket shelves, as postmen, bus drivers and so on. The older ones have not and simply exist on benefits.

 

Of course we care and of course it matters that men and women with families to support have lost their jobs. My point was that Rover was just left to go by the Government of the day after handing over millions of pounds in assets to the Phoenix Group Ltd, who promptly sold what they could making sure their own personal pension fund was secure.

 

No one made any fuss then, it was accepted with a shrug of the shoulders, and yes, some people did remark that it was all the fault of the unions.

 

I wish the workers at the Ford plant better success at finding new work, it is no fun losing your job, I have been there. But I expect that in a few weeks they will all be forgotten, just like the Rover workers.

 

I wonder if, say, a French car company like maybe, Renault, would be allowed to go to the wall?

 

Not sure that 'nobody made a fuss'. A handful of people walked away from the Rover/Phoenix debacle with cart loads of cash becoming multi millionaires overnight. Back then Thatcher had broke the backs of Trade Unions and turned them into what they are today.....subservient to Capitalist control.

 

You only have to look at the current mess and cock ups of the Railway network to see that privatisation has failed....big time. In fact there was a very good documentary on about it last night which explained in detail why it's in such a mess.

 

There badly needs another Jimmy Reid needs to come along and shake the TU movement to its core and give them a wake up call. Here was a man who when faced with a Tory Government attempting to close down a flourishing Shipyard with full order books, not only took on 'the establishment', but did the absolute opposite to what Government had naively expected.......he led the Upper Clyde Shipbuilders to a work in with this powerful quote from his speech....."We are not going to strike. We are not even having a sit-in strike. Nobody and nothing will come in and nothing will go out without our permission. And there will be no hooliganism, there will be no vandalism, there will be no bevvying because the world is watching us, and it is our responsibility to conduct ourselves with responsibility, and with dignity, and with maturity."

 

Needless to say UCS received worldwide support and admiration whilst our Government were shown up for the lunacy and idiots which they were.

 

 

[rupert123]

Not sure how anyone can think privatisation does not work. In 1979, just before Maggie came to power I can well remember the ' winter of discontent' and the UK known as 'the sick man of europe'. Within a few years she had broken the power of the unions and turned things around, including getting rid of our loss making, tax payer funded industries. The railways are in fact working pretty well, all the trains I have travelled on recently have been, comfortable and on time. Sure things go wrong but the hughly succesfull car industry instead of companies like the old BL are just one example of how things work better. I agree some stuff like the NHS should remain largely under government control but even here large chunks, including some medical units are now privately run, although it is not much publisised. Unions have done good work in their early days but went completely ovar the top and now look they need 'reining in' again.

[goldi]

Afternoon all,

 

Perhaps if Ford had introduced the new transit range earlier this might have been avoided.

Its surprising that the Tories have given ford ten million when the Labour government would not give LDV the same amount , you do remember LDV don,t you ?

I understood it was illegal to give bailouts under the EU .

Anyway its still bad that we are losing yet more wothwile jobs.

 

norm

[dipstick0_0]

dont we as tax payers pay anything to the railway companies then ???? (lol)

[Paul M Who]

I'm with Stewart, no company should be bailed out by the government. 

The secret to a successful business is to build products people WANT TO BUY. 

Apple don't seem to have a problem. 

Here in Oz we have just gone through the same thing. Billions of dollars have been handed to Ford and GM Holden to keep them afloat due to the large union presence in our current government. Its a political decision and not a commercial one. 

You can snipe as much as you want about Sevel built vans but people WANT to buy them. That's how a free market works. BUYERS determine how successful any given company is and if Sevels were that bad every motorhome manufacturer would be building on Transit bases. 

Even though the Sevel based van is more expensive here in Oz its market share is increasing while the Transit's is declining. The Sevels are seen as more space efficient, more comfortable to drive on a daily basis, have a lower load height, are more fuel efficient and generally more reliable than the Ford.

If you want to survive in the car industry just build vehicle that people actually want to buy.

[Bulletguy]

rupert123 - 2012-10-27 10:25 AM

 

Not sure how anyone can think privatisation does not work......

 

The only people it 'works' for are those taking vast chunks of money out to swell their already fat Bank accounts. The NHS is a classic example with the disgraceful and dirty dealings of PFi which have effectively turned what was once an entirely State run institution into a private enterprise reaping billions for the 'get rich quick' merchants at the expense of 1)the taxpaying public and 2) the NHS patient.

 

Prior to the Railways being broken up, split off and privatised, BR made a decision over a job and the job was done. To do the same now involves communicating with a multitude of different companies and by the time any kind of decision has been agreed on......it's usually too late. Always comes to light every time we have a derailment.

 

rupert123 - 2012-10-27 10:25 AM

 

The railways are in fact working pretty well...........

Try telling that one to the many commuters who travel daily to work standing in packed carriage's plus having their season tickets hiked up to astronomical rates.

 

Also I don't think Branson would entirely agree with your comment either after the recent debacle!

 

 

[Dave225]

According to the official number 1.4 billion journeys were made on rail last year. This is thehighest number since the 1920's and should be considered in the light that the rail network has shrunk drastically since those early days.

 

Now the reasons for rail being so popular are miriad, fuel prices, lack of alternatives etc etc take your pick but the numbers suggest that to have a system that can handle these sorts of numbers must be doing something right. Even Branson wants to keep his railway not just because it makes a good profit but it is a status symbol he does not want to lose.

 

British Railways was fine in its own way but was crucified by the laws demanding it transport any goods offered to it, so costs were extremely high whereas road haulage cherry picked the good bits. Now that freight is basically all on the roads the railways make money from passengers as rolling stock is much more uniform. They can also speed the times between trains as slow freight is no longer on the line. It is not rocket science.

 

 

However if anyone thinks Bob Crowe and his mob would make it better is really looking for flying pigs.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

As far as I'm aware, since the mid-2000s only a tiny number of RHD Transit-based PVC motorhomes will have started life in the Southampton Ford factory and all the chassis for 'coachbuilt' motorhomes will have come from the Ford factory in Turkey.

 

'New' Transit is unlikely to dent Fiat's dominance in the motorhome sector, with small-capacity motors being standard and no automatic transmission available. Cab ergonomics are supposed to have impoved (could hardly have been worse than those of the Mk 6/7!) with the steering-wheel adjustable for height and reach.

 

 

[euroserv]

What i don't understand or believe is the claims by workers and unions at Southampton that they were shocked/surprised at the announcement.

 

They were producing a very tiny proportion of the Transits manufactured and were well aware that there was an all new Transit due to be launched imminently. Had they not noticed the lack of tooling, information or plans for building the new van locally? Idiots.

 

Also, what on earth were 1400 people doing at the plant anyway? Probably over staffed by 1000 for the work that was being done. I doubt that has anything to do with unions!

 

The only reason that car manufacturing is such a success story in the UK these days is because the workers are treated with respect and are happy to be productive in their modern factories partly financed by 'initiatives' paid by our government. These are bail-ins and should be as illegal as bail-outs.

 

Furthermore; the £10M 'initiative' package given to Ford for the production of new engines in the UK is insane. Either the UK is a good place to manufacture engines or it is not. Mr Cable said he was surprised by the announcement and is clearly an idiot too. The money should be withdrawn and used to pay unemployment benefits to the deposed staff at Southampton.

 

My heartfelt desire is that British business's will finally end their love affair with the Transit. Why on earth would anyone continue to buy something that was once British and is now so cynically farmed out to the almost third world. Not the backbone of Britain any more; more like a spineless excuse for a cash cow.

 

Nick

[Bulletguy]

euroserv - 2012-10-29 3:43 PM

 

My heartfelt desire is that British business's will finally end their love affair with the Transit. Why on earth would anyone continue to buy something that was once British and is now so cynically farmed out to the almost third world. Not the backbone of Britain any more; more like a spineless excuse for a cash cow.

 

Nick

 

I suppose the comparisons which spring to mind are the Moggie 1000, Mini (not the BMW 'pretender'!), and the Beetle.

 

OK all old technology but sheer simplicity to repair with no fancy computerised electronics to go wrong which prove expensive to repair.......and just look at how many are still on the roads today.