spospe Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 A cautionary tale. We have just returned from France and whilst travelling up the A20, we were stopped by the French Customs at the point where the A20 changes from being a toll road, to toll-free (near Brive-la-Gaillarde). They asked us if we had been to Spain (we hadn’t) and then if we had bought any tobacco products at any time outside of France (we hadn’t). They then asked us where we had come from that day, which was Avignon and as we had a tourist information leaflet from there to show them, this was accepted. What they were after was anyone buying tobacco (especially cigarettes) especially in Spain and then importing them into France. The figures they quoted were “800 OK, more, Non”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Hi,Regular checks last week,,, just past Magny Cours on the A77,,Chekling all doc's and weights etc'Regards ,Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 so much for a border less common market *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Brendan, Hi ---- were the police checking the weight of the van ? if so how and where did they weigh it and did they weigh the van without you in it or did the police insist that you sat in it while it was weighed. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 spospe - 2012-11-07 5:11 PM A cautionary tale. We have just returned from France and whilst travelling up the A20, we were stopped by the French Customs at the point where the A20 changes from being a toll road, to toll-free (near Brive-la-Gaillarde). They asked us if we had been to Spain (we hadn’t) and then if we had bought any tobacco products at any time outside of France (we hadn’t). They then asked us where we had come from that day, which was Avignon and as we had a tourist information leaflet from there to show them, this was accepted. What they were after was anyone buying tobacco (especially cigarettes) especially in Spain and then importing them into France. The figures they quoted were “800 OK, more, Non”. Just to clarify this 'issue' as many people continue to remain vague about this, the French Customs are only interested in those who they suspect may have travelled via Andorra which of course is not an EU member State. If you have purchased within any EU country and have the receipts to prove, then they have no power to seize the goods at all. You are free to purchase as many cigarettes or rolling tobacco as you like within all EU countries providing it is for your own personal use. Also all receipts must be kept as Customs will want to see them as proof of purchase. Usually the real pests are at our own end......HMRC at Dover Port who continue to harass people legitimately purchasing tobacco goods for their own personal use. HMRC Notice 1 actually states figures of goods for people to bring back into the UK. But what 99.9% of people fail to read or grasp is it actually calls these figures "recommended guidelines". The most important word being the latter. It is not a limit........because they cannot impose one as long as the UK remains part of the EU. It is a guideline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 HMRC information regarding goods brought to the UK from EU countries is provided clearly here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/arriving/arrivingeu.htm and it may be worth noting that the tobacco-related 'guideline' maxima were reduced about a year ago. Imports from non-EU countries are covered here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/arriving/arrivingnoneu.htm The duty-free limits when returning to the EU from Andorra are listed here http://www.andorramania.co.uk/duty-free-allowance-andorra/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auditor Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Bulletguy - 2012-11-08 1:44 AM Just to clarify this 'issue' as many people continue to remain vague about this, the French Customs are only interested in those who they suspect may have travelled via Andorra which of course is not an EU member State. If you have purchased within any EU country and have the receipts to prove, then they have no power to seize the goods at all. This is no longer the case. A few years ago, France decided to impose a limit on the amount of tobbaco that can be carried per vehicle. We have been stopped by French police, twice. The last time was when when travelling on the motorway south of Metz. A police motorcyclist guessed, quite rightly that we had overnighted in Luxembourg ( An EU state ), and indicated that we follow him to the next service area, where we were introduced to French Customs. They were only interested in tobbaco. Since we didn't smoke, and hadn't purchased any cigarettes, we received an apology and continued on our way. From memory, I believe that their limit for ciagarettes, was only 200 per vehicle, but being a non smoker, and obviously not that interested in the limit, I might be wrong about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Auditor - 2012-11-08 8:57 AM Bulletguy - 2012-11-08 1:44 AM Just to clarify this 'issue' as many people continue to remain vague about this, the French Customs are only interested in those who they suspect may have travelled via Andorra which of course is not an EU member State. If you have purchased within any EU country and have the receipts to prove, then they have no power to seize the goods at all. This is no longer the case. A few years ago, France decided to impose a limit on the amount of tobbaco that can be carried per vehicle. We have been stopped by French police, twice. The last time was when when travelling on the motorway south of Metz. A police motorcyclist guessed, quite rightly that we had overnighted in Luxembourg ( An EU state ), and indicated that we follow him to the next service area, where we were introduced to French Customs. They were only interested in tobbaco. Since we didn't smoke, and hadn't purchased any cigarettes, we received an apology and continued on our way. From memory, I believe that their limit for ciagarettes, was only 200 per vehicle, but being a non smoker, and obviously not that interested in the limit, I might be wrong about that. In fact Bulletguy is correct. Bear with me, as I wade through the legals.... The test case about 10 years ago in the European courts against the then UK Custom and Excise (now HMRC) who had imposed an arbitrary limit of 800 ciggies for personal consumption upon anyone coming back from the Continent having bought them in another EU Country, confirmed that a Member State of the EU has NO power to limit the free movement of people, goods and services within the EU......as those individual rights are guaranteed by the Treaty Or Rome which established them and which all EU Member States sign up to . That is why UK HMRC now talk of a "Guideline" only of 800 cigarettes.........just to discourage people who don't know that it's got no real meaning from going berserk. But it is just that: ONLY a guideline. It is NOT enforceable by them unless they can show that any larger quantity was not just for your personal consumption. In law, so long as you have paid the retail purchase tax in whichever other EU State you bought them (keep receipts), there is NO legally enforceable upper limit on the number of cigs you can bring into/carry through any other EU Member State(s). There is now legally specified a presumption of Innocence. not guilt, on anyone bringing in more ciggies than that. It would be for HMRC to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that any larger quantity was NOT for your personal consumption; it is not any longer for you to prove that they are. So if you are still a smoker (ie your filthy cancer-inducing habit hasn't yet killed you) and you want to buy more cancer sticks abroad to bring back to the UK, then stick to one brand, buy them only in other EU member States, keep all purchase receipts, and you can bring back thousands. The one problem is with the little EU-landlocked principality of Andora, where ciggies are very cheap, but which is not an EU Member State. So the upper limit on bringing ciggies bought there into/through any other member State ( France/Spain, and thence perhaps back to the UK) is only the same as if returning with them from anywhere else outside the EU ( eg USA, Asia etc). That's where the French Customs laddies get their rationale from. They ARE entitled to confiscate more than the bought-outside-the-EU limit from you, and to fine you too, if they catch you with loads of Andora-bought ciggies. But they are NOT entitled to take any action over any quantity of bought-legally-in-another-EU-Country ciggies so long as you have the purchase receipts showing that you paid the purchase tax on them, and so long as they cannot show beyond reasonable doubt that they are NOT intended by you for your own personal lung-cancer-inducing agonizing future death. Same legal principles are true incidentally, for all/any wine and spirits, and indeed for any other goods bought by individuals in one EU Member State and then carried into/through any other Member State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Derek Uzzell - 2012-11-08 7:41 AM ........and it may be worth noting that the tobacco-related 'guideline' maxima were reduced about a year ago. Download HMRC Notice 1 here; http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_001734 Scroll down to page 5 where it clearly states; Alcohol and tobacco There are no limits on the amount of duty and/or tax paid alcohol and tobacco that you can bring into the UK as long as they are for your own use or gifts and are transported by you. Undoubtedly the French 'do their own thing' and take whatever they like off people, particularly those not conversant in the language who will instantly be at a disadvantage. As for our own HMRC I speak as I find and the terminology used in the various leaflets (i'm afraid when it comes to being stopped they are only interested in quoting Notice 1 'gobble-de-gook'), is purposely designed to confuse and instil fear into the returning tourist. 90% of them are out to 'score' brownie points......the remaining 10% thoroughly decent, reasonable and sensible folk to deal with, but you are extremely fortunate if dealt with by one of the latter. Prime "targets" are single males travelling alone or vehicles occupied two or three males. Not once......ever have I witnessed a single female or couple being taken in. Also foreign registered cars are less likely to be stopped than UK registered. As for alcohol......HMRC couldn't give a flying fig. You could load your van up to the roof and even stick crates of the damn stuff on top. They don't even 'see' it. They are only interested in tobacco and try every trick in the book to catch out the unsuspecting and unknowledgeable. The only reason so much tobacco is now coming into the UK from foreign countries is due to heavy punitive taxation making a pack of 20 the most expensive in Europe (apart from Norway and Ireland). Look around you next time you are out and about in the UK.. The vast majority of smokers here smoke 'rollies' and you will rarely see anyone with pack cigarettes. Across the Channel in any European country it's entirely the other way around. In fact in some countries a smoker will be hard pushed to find a shop selling rolling tobacco. http://www.the-tma.org.uk/~thetma/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/EU-map.pdf This makes it very attractive to smugglers of hard drugs where if caught, sentences can be anything up to 10 or 15 years. By comparison smuggling large quantities of tobacco for re-sale carries a max of a 2 year sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wills Wagon Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I don't understand some of you guys. Police acting with Customs are legally allowed to stop vehicles and ask where you have come from where you are going, check your papers and weights if they want to. We have been stopped twice in France in 10 years and everyone was very polite with no problems. I am not sure that some of the heavies with guns actualy understood English but we never felt under pressure and if you are legal no problem. It is their country and it is up to us to comply. Normal people won't be bringing in excess fags, wine or spirits so instead of getting hot under the collar and moaning all the time get a life. If you dont like it dont go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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