rupert123 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Last weekend meet up with my brother and a friend in our vans and got talking in the pub. I was a little surprised neither of them had a clue about how much their vans weighed when loaded and neither cared very much. Both were of the opinion, probably correct, that if you did not look overloaded it was very unlikely you would be stopped so why worry about it. Neither belonged or looked at motorhome forums, just for geeks I was informed, never having been called a geek before was impressed by my new status. I wonder if looking at all the stuff on forums we become to obsessed with some of this, does it really matter much if you are 100kg overweight, I suspect not. Your chassis is unlikely to buckle under the extra weight, your insurance company will never know and you could stick that scooter on the back no problem. I quite enjoy looking at forums, especially when the rows break out but think too many take this stuff a little too seriously. I will continue to weigh my van but in future will take less notice if a few kgs over the top. Wonder how many really know every time they go away how much the van weighs? Yesterday my wife and I visited a couple of M/H dealers to look at vans with a view to replacing our unloved PVC. When there I asked them how many people asked about about payload when buying, one said could not remember last time anyone asked, the other said almost never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Motorway pile-ups are not funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 crinklystarfish - 2012-11-16 9:45 AM Motorway pile-ups are not funny. ?????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Neither are fines and inconvenience of having to shed weight to be allowed to continue from a VOSA weighbridge or foreign roadside checks? Agreed the chance of being stopped is probably low especially if, like ours, your van sits tail high anyway, but I go on holiday to relax and knowingly breaking the law does not constitute relaxation to me. I don't know what the insurers would make of it but I suspect that they would ever know unless the crash was due to suspected overload - but how would they tell - and it would be hard to weigh a crashed and undriveable van? We each have a choice and I don't condemn those who choose not to know - or know but ignore - but I prefer to be legal. Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-11-16 9:39 AM and neither cared very much. Both were of the opinion,............... so why worry about it. .........does it really matter much if you are 100kg overweight, I will continue to weigh my van but in future will take less notice if a few kgs over the top. .............. one said could not remember last time anyone asked, the other said almost never. Hello Henry; Just because you were outnumbered doesn't make them right ! Keep weighing your van, be sensible, and enjoy peace of mind, because it's irresponsible to break some rules, and the consequences can be life changing. As for dealers not being asked for payload details, well that just means that manufacturers will continue to "get away with" impractical designs, and minimal payloads. It may not be related, but is lack of payload a factor in your feelings towards your PVC? regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I have seen vans being weighed in Germany and England and we were pulled in on the way home from Spain, it was pouring down with rain and the Police were busy weighing an Articulated Lorry, when they finished with the lorry the cop walked round my van and waved me on, I think he could not be bothered to alter the scales for my van in the rain, great relief I can tell you, I am very concious of weight , I had the Hymer at the time 4500kgs, but did have a lot of bottles aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 vindiboy - 2012-11-16 10:37 AM I have seen vans being weighed in Germany and England and we were pulled in on the way home from Spain, ................. 4500kgs, but did have a lot of bottles aboard. Well a single bottle is approx 1.2Kg, that's the weight I use when we are stocking up on the way home, so it's not too difficult to stay legal: as long as you know your weight in the first place alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Honestly, I don't know what our MH weighs when fully loaded. In all the 10 years of living in Spain I've never seen a roadside weighbridge check in operation. Not once. Nor have I heard of one from the Spanish MH forum.Nor in all the times we've been in Portugal. MH dealers here have utterly no idea of what the vehicles they sell weigh, neither in total, or by axle.When you talk of likely rear axle overloading because of extras/racks/scooters etc, they look at you blankly....they simply and honestly do not recognise the concept. I am NOT saying that getting a stop/weight - check and fine could never happen down here; but I am saying that the actual control/enforcement of such "minor" (as the Spanish would see them) regulations is far, far, far less here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 You may not have seen a weigh bridge in Spain, BGD but I can assure you that it was Spain where we were pulled in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crinklystarfish Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Errr, weight limits are not imposed in order to allow authorities to fine people. People being fined for ignoring weight limits is societies way of saying we don't appreciate you putting innocent road users in danger. It's not about you, the selfish arrogant driver of the overweight vehicle, it's about the people you might kill or maim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I can remember many years ago one of the government MP's wife and him had a bookshop , his wife was driving a Volvo Estate loaded with books which was over weight and did not manage to stop at a roundabout resulting in her losing her life , because of the excess weight the Volvo could not stop in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 BGD - 2012-11-16 10:54 AM Honestly, I don't know what our MH weighs when fully loaded. In all the 10 years of living in Spain I've never seen a roadside weighbridge check in operation. Not once. Nor have I heard of one from the Spanish MH forum. Nor in all the times we've been in Portugal. MH dealers here have utterly no idea of what the vehicles they sell weigh, neither in total, or by axle. When you talk of likely rear axle overloading because of extras/racks/scooters etc, they look at you blankly....they simply and honestly do not recognise the concept. I am NOT saying that getting a stop/weight - check and fine could never happen down here; but I am saying that the actual control/enforcement of such "minor" (as the Spanish would see them) regulations is far, far, far less here. Bruce, from my recent observations it is no differant in the uk. Have never paid much attention before and because we carry a scooter have always paid attention to it. Personally in my years of M/H have never seen a motorhome being weighed anywhere, does anyone outside of forums care, I suspect not. Is it really so bad if you have a van weighing over three ton if you are even, say, 100kg overweight, only to the geeks and gurus on here I suspect. Is it in any way dangerous to be a few kgs over weight, again I suspect not. Before anyone takes me to task for this I stiil weigh, just asking the question, normal, sensible people will work things out for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share Posted November 16, 2012 crinklystarfish - 2012-11-16 11:03 AMErrr, weight limits are not imposed in order to allow authorities to fine people. People being fined for ignoring weight limits is societies way of saying we don't appreciate you putting innocent road users in danger.It's not about you, the selfish arrogant driver of the overweight vehicle, it's about the people you might kill or maim.This is exactly the daft response i would expect from some. How the hell is a 100kg going to do that, ok if you overload by 1000kg it just might but how would you achieve that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Oh Boy! Henry says; "This is exactly the daft response i would expect from some. How the hell is a 100kg going to do that, ok if you overload by 1000kg it just might but how would you achieve that anyway." So how will we recognize you in the rearview mirror? Glad to hear you'll keep weighing, not sure why tho" Regards alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I suppose it really was expecting too much, given the emotive topic, for this not to quickly degenerate into a mud slinging contest once the 'holier than though' brigade got wind of something to really have a go at. What happened to reasoned discussion - again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldi Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Afternoon all, The critical figure is 5% on the gvw, any more in this country you are likley to face prosecution. However it is best practice to keep within the weights as weigh in motion sensors become more common. norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 It is not necessary for insurance companies and other interested parties to use a weigh bridge to check a crashed van. There are portable pads available which measure the weight on each wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Not sure if the same old laws are still in-force but this is what they could fine you once, plus a prison sentence if a serious accident (death) caused by you being overloaded, each offence attracting £1000 :- 1) being overloaded. 2) Front axle overloaded. 3) Rear axle overloaded. 4) each wheel overloaded. So maximum penalty could attract for a 2axle 4wheel vehicle £7000 plus a prison sentence. Never heard of a maximum sentence enforced, but have known a prison sentence passed. Choice is theirs. So being a geek just might pay off, you never know. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Regarding slightly overloading being a high accident risk, I would think that the published weight limits have a safety margin built in anyway . Regarding a bottle of wine weighing just over 1kg. Why not bring your wine home in bulk, in boxes, thus saving nearly half a kg per bottle. More wine to bring home do you think. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 thebishbus - 2012-11-16 5:06 PM Why not bring your wine home in bulk, in boxes, thus saving nearly half a kg per bottle. Brian B. Does not keep as well in boxes because the plastic bags are not totally airtight, unlike glass. Wine boxes have a best before date code, unlike bottles. Regarding weight, many vans are designed to carry higher weights than they are legally allowed, being down rated to 3.5 tonnes for licensing purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Peter James - 2012-11-16 5:22 PM thebishbus - 2012-11-16 5:06 PM Why not bring your wine home in bulk, in boxes, thus saving nearly half a kg per bottle. Brian B. Does not keep as well in boxes because the plastic bags are not totally airtight, unlike glass. Wine boxes have a best before date code, unlike bottles. Never noticed the wine in our 10 litre boxes deteriorate :-S...........But..... hic......It dushant.... hic....last werry long.....I fink it evapourates...hic :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 goldi - 2012-11-16 3:25 PM Afternoon all, The critical figure is 5% on the gvw, any more in this country you are likley to face prosecution. However it is best practice to keep within the weights as weigh in motion sensors become more common. norm That's useful to know ;-).....................as with the trailer we still have 260 kg spare payload, although our camper is still 30 kg over *-)................but that's less than 1% :D..................guess I could move the spare into the trailer ;-) Mind you the OP is right, it wasn't until I joined this forum I even gave payload a second thought ;-)................and I know in the past I have been seriously overloaded, as it really effects the handling :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Hello, Regarding 'built in safety margins' I thought I would make an observation; I can give 3 examples. A 4x4, A Ducato van and a 7.5T truck. You could substitute almost any other vehicle but these are the ones that I have first hand experience of on a regular basis. In any of these vehicles if you drive at a given speed and then have to brake fairly hard with only you on board and with no load to speak of you will feel that the brakes are doing a decent job of slowing you down and that this requires little effort from you. If you load the vehicle with people, goods or just 'stuff' and assume that all the people, goods and stuff are secure and not moving around in the vehicle and try to do the same thing you will without any doubt notice that the brakes are less effective, require more effort from your foot and more concentration from you to make sure that everything stays where it should and that you stop in a controlled manner. I have experienced this and I damn well know you have too, and that is when the vehicle is not over-loaded! If the people are not fastened to their seats, the goods can move or the 'stuff' is fragile and not secured it will involve you in much more concentration and effort to control the vehicle. The above situations do occur and this is still while you are within the load limits. Now while the vehicle may have margins of safety built in to make sure that it is going to stop even if it is somewhat over-loaded, the definition of safety is decided by the manufacturer and is quite arbitrary. It means that items should not fail or break even when more force is exerted on them than normal but as long as they stop eventually this is acceptable. If you are fully loaded, this can on it's own place a great deal of stress on braking and suspension components if you have an ideally secured and distributed load and wish to pull up in a straight line but introduce variables inside the vehicle and perhaps the need to steer around an obstacle then your chances of stopping soon and safely become reduced for every ounce of extra (poorly distributed or unsecured) mass that you are carrying. There is much talk of 'passive and active safety' these days. The passive safety built into your vehicle is about engineering -in some margins, and the active refers to seat belts, pre-tensioners and airbags, ABS and EBD that help you get through things when they are going wrong. Why would you want to move the emphasis from passive to active safety without a significant reason for increasing the risk? In any case over-loading is irresponsible and illegal; and you just can''t argue about that. If you lose control of your vehicle or cannot stop as quickly and smoothly as the vehicles that you encounter every day you risk hurting yourself, your wine glasses and worse still; someone completely innocent. Whoever you are, I would rather not share the road with you and would report you to the authorities without hesitation. Have a nice weekend. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 "who cares" you will you numpty if you have an accident even if not your fault *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 euroserv - 2012-11-16 6:25 PM Whoever you are, I would rather not share the road with you and would report you to the authorities without hesitation. It's only 30 kg :'( ....................... I'll move the spare then :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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