Payload, who cares?

[malc d]

1footinthegrave - 2012-12-01 11:00 AM

 

 

You'll witness many a HGV driver using the phone whilst belting down a motorway with a 38 tonner, just because they have a license for competence does not mean they are not idiots,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, .

 

 

My cycling routes often take me across motorways and I sometimes stop to watch the traffic - I would estimate that about 40% of HGV drivers don't wear their seat belts.

 

 

:-(

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2012-12-01 9:02 AM

 

No, BGD is correct - this iwill be immediately evident from the information on this file:

 

http://www.asociacionideatica.com/The%20braking%20effect.pdf

Gee, thanks Derek. At last some clarity! :-D

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2012-12-01 12:36 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2012-12-01 9:02 AM

 

No, BGD is correct - this iwill be immediately evident from the information on this file:

 

http://www.asociacionideatica.com/The%20braking%20effect.pdf

Gee, thanks Derek. At last some clarity! :-D

 

He's philosopher specializing in Quantum and Relativist Physics 8-)

 

I bet he's a crap driver :D

[crinklystarfish]

1footinthegrave - 2012-12-01 11:00 AM... You'll witness many a HGV driver using the phone whilst belting down a motorway with a 38 tonner, just because they have a license for competence does not mean they are not idiots and downright dangerous...

Of course. The point was though, that at least they've demonstrated by test that they are actually capable of handling larger / heavier vehicles, something that many (older) drivers driving stuff up to 7.5t have not.

I think the point about 'pride and joy' is relevant and does mean that motorhome owners generally try to be careful - but that doesn't mean they are competent, especially when faced with an emergency situation.

And that's the recurring theme. If faced with an emergency brake / steer situation then the heavier / larger a vehicle is, the less chance of a happy ending.

Point taken regarding insurance companies assessing risk, largely, I imagine, down to the 'pride and joy' (ie care) factor again, rather than a reflection of true competence. That said, how many times do we read of the old 'busted bumper / light cluster' issues that are dealt with outwith insurance claim?

I don't seek to defend truckers, or offend grandfather right-ers, my only point is, and has always been, that the larger / heavier a vehicle is the less chance there will be of stopping / steering effectively in an emergency. The fact that many (older) drivers have never had to demonstrate their competence with larger vehicles, and the fact that at least some don't think being over the plated weight makes any difference, does not fill me with confidence - especially when in the vulnerable position of cyclist.

[Tracker]

Seeing as how this thread is getting really silly now - lets get even sillier shall we.

 

It seems to me that the answer is simples - every motorhome driver must have a man on a bike riding in front waving a red flag to warn other cyclists that a doddery old fart in a motorhome is driving at them!

 

Just one slight problem - who would want to ride a bike in front of a dangerously overweight motorhome driven by a dozey old inept driver?

 

Oh well - nothing else for it then - cyclists will just have to stick to cycle paths to avoid the psychopaths in motorhomes!

 

By the way I wonder just how many cyclists have actually been hit by a motorhome compared to how many have been hit by an HGV - and how those figures relate in percentage terms relative to the number of each class of vehicle on the road?

 

Come on guys - keep it in perspective please eh!

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Tracker - 2012-12-01 7:14 PM

 

Seeing as how this thread is getting really silly now - lets get even sillier shall we.

 

It seems to me that the answer is simples - every motorhome driver must have a man on a bike riding in front waving a red flag to warn other cyclists that a doddery old fart in a motorhome is driving at them!

 

Just one slight problem - who would want to ride a bike in front of a dangerously overweight motorhome driven by a dozey old inept driver?

 

Oh well - nothing else for it then - cyclists will just have to stick to cycle paths to avoid the psychopaths in motorhomes!

 

By the way I wonder just how many cyclists have actually been hit by a motorhome compared to how many have been hit by an HGV - and how those figures relate in percentage terms relative to the number of each class of vehicle on the road?

 

Come on guys - keep it in perspective please eh!

 

 

How many cyclists have passed a test of competence, this could run and run..................................mind you I'll excuse the grandfather rights ones, most are too knackered to ride a bike, me included,but even if I could it would be the boy racers that would really scare me, like Tracker says, perspective is the key word methinks :-(

[crinklystarfish]

1footinthegrave - 2012-12-01 7:25 PM...How many cyclists have passed a test of competence, this could run and run... :D

Virtually none, and some are so incompetent / blasé they could well end up swerving without any warning into the path of an overweight motorhome driven by someone who had never passed a test to demonstrate their competence in handling a larger vehicle, and who thought that an extra 100kg or so couldn't possibly make a difference

[Tracker]

Does anyone know whether the poor old cyclist has a better chance of survival if hit by a 3600 kg motorhome rather than a 7500 kg truck or 44000 kg HGV?

 

Answers on the back of a £20 note please!

 

Still - there's always a silver lining - and one less cyclist weaving around the road out of control in front of us makes it so much safer for all of us oldies with very slow reaction times and no driving ability!

[tonyishuk]

Have been off the forum for a short while, pondering HD Video on AV-Forums :-D

 

Firstly, Thanks to Brian for your summation of my trailer trailer reply to the thread.

 

Secondly as this thread is starting to go off topic.

 

Whilst leaping to safety from older M/home drivers and HGVs on the road and now using the pavement (not with my m/home) it now seems in my area there almost 4X4 mobility scooters that try to mow the pedestrian traffic down. (Drivers of which being over 70 year of age, is mandatory ), Some are almost the size of a Smart car !

 

Rgds

 

Just seen Tracker's posting,, Answer : About the same as being hit with a 4X4 mobility scooter !!

 

(lol)

[rupert123]

[

, or offend grandfather right-ers, my only point is, and has always been, that the larger / heavier a vehicle is the less chance there will be of stopping / steering effectively in an emergency. The fact that many (older) drivers have never had to demonstrate their competence with larger vehicles, and the fact that at least some don't think being over the plated weight makes any difference, does not fill me with confidence - especially when in the vulnerable position of cyclist.

 

Just a quick re-visit to the thread. See crinkly is still trying to convince, without much success, that 100kg makes a differance. Now another lost cause, why do older drivers not fill you with confidence, they should just look at the records. Only last week yet another report came out about accidents caused by two age groups, 20-30 year old, 60-70 year old guess who has the best record?

[Tracker]

rupert123 - 2012-12-01 9:30 PM

. Only last week yet another report came out about accidents caused by two age groups, 20-30 year old, 60-70 year old guess who has the best record?

 

40 to 60 year olds driving mobility scooters?

[crinklystarfish]

rupert123 - 2012-12-01 9:30 PM[

, or offend grandfather right-ers, my only point is, and has always been, that the larger / heavier a vehicle is the less chance there will be of stopping / steering effectively in an emergency. The fact that many (older) drivers have never had to demonstrate their competence with larger vehicles, and the fact that at least some don't think being over the plated weight makes any difference, does not fill me with confidence - especially when in the vulnerable position of cyclist.

Just a quick re-visit to the thread. See crinkly is still trying to convince, without much success, that 100kg makes a differance. Now another lost cause, why do older drivers not fill you with confidence, they should just look at the records. Only last week yet another report came out about accidents caused by two age groups, 20-30 year old, 60-70 year old guess who has the best record?

I have no interest in convincing the people on here who will argue black is white for the sake of it of anything. Least not those who really don't care of the subject matter and seek to turn the whole thing into some childish points-scoring game.

Thing is Rupert, I'm aware there are thoughtful people out there who read carefully, weigh up the points made, and then make their own judgement. If just one has a think about the implications of driving illegally overweight, or is more aware of their driving, then that's a good result.

And it's not necessarily older drivers per se, it's the fact that many have not ever had to demonstrate competence to drive a vehicle over 3.5t.

[Melvin]

Tracker - 2012-12-01 10:06 PM

 

rupert123 - 2012-12-01 9:30 PM

. Only last week yet another report came out about accidents caused by two age groups, 20-30 year old, 60-70 year old guess who has the best record?

 

40 to 60 year olds driving mobility scooters?

 

I am one of those 40 to 60 year olds who drive a mobilty scooter ? there is an old saying, " If you cant say anything nice, say nothing at all".

 

As regards running overweight, if the offender hurt your loved one through their irresponsible behaviour, how would you feel.

[crinklystarfish]

Similarly,

Tracker - 2012-12-01 7:52 PM  ...Still - there's always a silver lining - and one less cyclist weaving around the road out of control in front of us makes it so much safer for all of us oldies with very slow reaction times and no driving ability!

I'm sure all the friends, relatives and other people involved in dealing with the death / serious injury of cyclists on British roads will find this hilarious.

[rupert123]

?

result.

And it's not necessarily older drivers per se, it's the fact that many have not ever had to demonstrate competence to drive a vehicle over 3.5t.

They have though. The government sets up a series of tests to prove competance, it also sets the limits of what you can drive if you pass one of these tests. If you pass a test and this give you license to drive up to 7.5 tons then that is as much as you can do. OK differant governments alter the rules a bit from time to time but that is not our fault. Even if a person decided to take another voluntary test and passed, does this prove competance, not really. You only learn to drive properly after passing your test, some never learn, I know people, we all do, who have been driving for years and still cannot park a car. Driving is a skill like any other and if you have a piece of paper it proves little, after all if you took a car test today and passed you are as qualified as Lewis Hamilton to drive, that is about all it means. Stop worrying about it crinkly.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Irresponsible behaviour is endemic in EVERY aspect of life that's the bottom line, as soon as we crawed out of the cave it started with someone pinching someone else's club. If we could eliminate everyone that by any definition could be deemed irresponsible in their behaviour at times I doubt there would hardly be any of us around. Yes a great many do try to do the right things, but we're all human, and sometimes we screw up, yes ALL of us including me, I'm constantly frustrated by irresponsible behaviour, no 1 at the top of my list being mobile phone users, next up, drivers reading a map, or fiddling with their satnav on the go, in the grand scheme of things this thread should have been about keeping things in perspective, or yes I was slightly over my payload, but do you know what I did not stand a chance when that HGV / car / van came over the centre line and hit me head on because he was texting on the phone. >:-(

[rupert123]

Melvin - 2012-12-02 10:29 AM

 

Tracker - 2012-12-01 10:06 PM

 

rupert123 - 2012-12-01 9:30 PM

. Only last week yet another report came out about accidents caused by two age groups, 20-30 year old, 60-70 year old guess who has the best record?

 

40 to 60 year olds driving mobility scooters?

 

As regards running overweight, if the offender hurt your loved one through their irresponsible behaviour, how would you feel.

 

Personally I would feel about the same as I would if someone running underweight did. The fact that they were legal would not really help much.

[rupert123]

1footinthegrave - 2012-12-02 10:53 AM

 

this thread should have been about keeping things in perspective, >:-(

 

No it should not and as I started it I should know. It was about three blokes in a pub talking about motorhomes, or more precisely about motorhome trips. The subject of payloads came up and I passed this bit on to the forum. As it usual in long threads things become distorted and differant opinions are voiced with varying degrees of force. These opinions are often exaggerated to make a point, we all know this, and often become laughable, the one that some really seem to believe an extra 100kg is a life or death experience is a case in point. Keeping things in perspective would be nice but not really going to happen. After all why spoil a thread with a bit of common sense.

[Tracker]

crinklystarfish - 2012-12-02 10:43 AM

I'm sure all the friends, relatives and other people involved in dealing with the death / serious injury of cyclists on British roads will find this hilarious.

 

Typical paranoid response!

 

I lost a very good friend when he was knocked off his bike by an HGV turning left across his path but he was the sort of good guy who would smile at a bit of humour after the event. After all nothing will ever change what happened and political correctness in never mentioning it out of turn would never have occurred to him.

 

Similarly I have lost several people close to me from cancer but it does not mean that I cannot see the lighter side when it crops up.

 

Perhaps a bit more humour and a bit less pomposity and 'holier than thou' would go a long way to getting the message understood that our roads are a very dangerous place and we all have a responsibility to be safe towards other road users.

 

Perhaps I've been lucky as I have never injured or killed anyone on the roads, but I know someone that has and believe me living with it is not easy - even when you are totally blameless.

[Tracker]

Melvin - 2012-12-02 10:29 AM

I am one of those 40 to 60 year olds who drive a mobilty scooter ? there is an old saying, " If you cant say anything nice, say nothing at all".

 

As regards running overweight, if the offender hurt your loved one through their irresponsible behaviour, how would you feel.

 

I don't see how you could possibly take a humorous one liner as saying something not nice - unless you were looking for something to be offended by?

 

Irresponsible behaviour takes many forms and it achieves nothing to single out any one aspect to try and make a point at the expense of the many overweight motorhomes that have never been involved in any sort of accident let alone an injury accident.

 

Perspective people, perspective!!

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

crinklystarfish - 2012-12-01 10:34 AM

Brian Kirby - 2012-11-30 10:29 PM... The further :-) proviso is that the brakes must be capable of stopping the wheels rotating, and must be applied to the point at which the wheels nearly, but not quite, lock. So, ABS, I think!That, of course, discounts the possible effect of any trailer. Interesting, innit! :-)

Bang on. Crinkly test-rode his touring pushbike unladen, then toured fully loaded, when fully laden the extra mass easily overcame the ability of the brakes to retard progress and an ignominious meeting with level crossing barriers ensued.

The crucial point in all this though, that many seem wilfully blind to, is driver competence.

Larger / heavier vehicles require higher standards of driving competence, it's why we have LGV test.

Nothing chills me more than a grandfather rights 7.5t truck driver bearing down on me whilst cycling. Some other 'user groups' come close in the fear factor. Motorhome drivers very often demonstrate their lack of awareness of vehicle length / width. The very last thing any sane cyclist would want to see is these vehicles becoming larger / heavier still. 

Quite simply, many motorhome drivers are already in over their head - before they overload their vehicles.

We are keen cyclists and cycle all the time in London and when away...Its a high risk pursuit in the city..consideration for cyclists non existent in this country. had a wonderful 6 weeks cycling in Italy/Croatia, not one near miss..first day out on my return 3 near misses in 2 days.Spain in the winter was the same...wonderful, except for one incident when a large UK CB pushed me of the road....ironically had bikes on rack on back!I have a head cam now so that it will record what happened if i get murdered.... :-S

[Tracker]

If one very small bit of good came out of the loss of my friend it did serve to make me and most of his friends and family even more aware of the perils of being a cyclist on the roads, and the unpredictability at times of a human being atop an inherently unstable bit of machinery!

 

I always try and give 'em a wide berth - and have even been known to stop - if for no other reason than I don't want handlebar or helmet marks on the sides of my van!

 

And don't anyone go getting all upset because I choose to use humour to make a point!!

[Melvin]

Tracker - 2012-12-02 11:48 AM

 

Melvin - 2012-12-02 10:29 AM

I am one of those 40 to 60 year olds who drive a mobilty scooter ? there is an old saying, " If you cant say anything nice, say nothing at all".

 

As regards running overweight, if the offender hurt your loved one through their irresponsible behaviour, how would you feel.

 

I don't see how you could possibly take a humorous one liner as saying something not nice - unless you were looking for something to be offended by?

 

Irresponsible behaviour takes many forms and it achieves nothing to single out any one aspect to try and make a point at the expense of the many overweight motorhomes that have never been involved in any sort of accident let alone an injury accident.

 

Perspective people, perspective!!

 

I was being humorous, I was just winding you up, and you bit :-D

[Tracker]

Melvin - 2012-12-02 1:48 PM

I was being humorous, I was just winding you up, and you bit :-D

 

Of course you were - the lack of smileys gave you away!

[Melvin]

Tracker - 2012-12-02 5:02 PM

 

Melvin - 2012-12-02 1:48 PM

I was being humorous, I was just winding you up, and you bit :-D

 

Of course you were - the lack of smileys gave you away!

 

I am sorry you are just like a spoilt child