Payload, who cares?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Robinhood - 2012-11-17 12:10 PM

 

Rayjsj - 2012-11-17 12:02 PM

 

if that means raising this 'Arbitary' target to 4000kg then so be it. change license, Tolls etc., all to match.

Ray

 

.......alternatively, of course, we could have "grandfather rights" removed, and insist on ALL drivers (not just those that passed their test after 1997) being required to take a driving examination that would evidence their capability to drive a heavy vehicle over 3500kg (significantly different in characteristics to the car in which they probably took their original test).

 

Completely level playing field, game-changing for the manufacturers, and a reasonable test of competence of the driver to cope (rather than just the vehicle).

 

;-)

 

Insurers are not daft people you know, a large majority of M/home insurers are of a "mature" age, and the insurance premiums being low reflect the fact that they are a low risk, my current policy cost £257 including full European recovery, I'm 67 passed my test in a Ford Anglia, but unknown to and never been asked by M/home insurers went on to HGV class one, and PSV licencing in later years, but the fact remains older drivers ( with grandfather rights as you put it ) are considered to be a very good risk, hence the low premiums we enjoy for us old uns, so we must be doing something right, ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-17 10:46 AMGive these chaps a ring and point out you are 'only' 100kg over, I'm sure they'll say it doesn't matter.

http://www.kent.police.uk/about_us/policies/p/documents/P07a_advicesheet.pdf

So what happens if you've re plaited your vehicle lower, and the only physical change is a piece of paper and a new weight plate? :-S.....................Because if the vehicle was safe before how does a piece of paper make it unsafe? 8-)

[Rayjsj]

Robinhood - 2012-11-17 12:10 PM

 

Rayjsj - 2012-11-17 12:02 PM

 

if that means raising this 'Arbitary' target to 4000kg then so be it. change license, Tolls etc., all to match.

Ray

 

.......alternatively, of course, we could have "grandfather rights" removed, and insist on ALL drivers (not just those that passed their test after 1997) being required to take a driving examination that would evidence their capability to drive a heavy vehicle over 3500kg (significantly different in characteristics to the car in which they probably took their original test).

 

Completely level playing field, game-changing for the manufacturers, and a reasonable test of competence of the driver to cope (rather than just the vehicle).

 

;-)

 

because the queue for 're-testing' would mean some having to wait a couple of years ,before they could (legally) again drive the same vehicle, they have been driving, perfectly safely for years. (and in the wait, probably a few would 'Die off' . ) Age alone does not a 'Bad driver' make. maybe a slower, more cautious one, but is that such a bad thing ? I thought this discussion was about Overloading, not Age vs. Youth. ? Ray

 

i would be quite willing to take the test in my 'Over 3500kg' motorhome, but evidently the 'test vehicle' HAS to have a 'Tachograph' fitted !! what a bunch of crap ! what do i want with a tachograph ??.

[Robinhood]

Rayjsj - 2012-11-17 1:55 PM

 

Robinhood - 2012-11-17 12:10 PM

 

Rayjsj - 2012-11-17 12:02 PM

 

if that means raising this 'Arbitary' target to 4000kg then so be it. change license, Tolls etc., all to match.

Ray

 

.......alternatively, of course, we could have "grandfather rights" removed, and insist on ALL drivers (not just those that passed their test after 1997) being required to take a driving examination that would evidence their capability to drive a heavy vehicle over 3500kg (significantly different in characteristics to the car in which they probably took their original test).

 

Completely level playing field, game-changing for the manufacturers, and a reasonable test of competence of the driver to cope (rather than just the vehicle).

 

;-)

 

because the queue for 're-testing' would mean some having to wait a couple of years ,before they could (legally) again drive the same vehicle, they have been driving, perfectly safely for years. (and in the wait, probably a few would 'Die off' . ) Age alone does not a 'Bad driver' make. maybe a slower, more cautious one, but is that such a bad thing ? I thought this discussion was about Overloading, not Age vs. Youth. ? Ray

 

i would be quite willing to take the test in my 'Over 3500kg' motorhome, but evidently the 'test vehicle' HAS to have a 'Tachograph' fitted !! what a bunch of crap ! what do i want with a tachograph ??.

 

....my comments, which were intended fairly "lightly" in reponse to some (IMO) fairly nonsensical posts, had nothing at all to do with age but were more about whether people driving vehicles over 3500kg had been through an assessment process such as is currently seen fit to allow one to drive them. :-S.

 

It is just a quirk of history that the majority of people that are driving them without such an assessment are probably doing so on "grandfather rights", though, of course, some who could do that possibly have a (fully tested) licence category that would allow them to do so.

[Robinhood]

1footinthegrave - 2012-11-17 11:55 AM

 

Just tried, but like nearly all Police stations these days they are unmanned at the weekend

 

 

....they're all out on the roadside weighing motorhomes. ;-)

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Robinhood - 2012-11-17 2:53 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2012-11-17 11:55 AM

 

Just tried, but like nearly all Police stations these days they are unmanned at the weekend

 

 

....they're all out on the roadside weighing motorhomes. ;-)

 

 

Blimey your right, just caught me 70 Kg overloaded and had to dump the excess, not sure what time the missus will get back now :D

[Tracker]

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-17 9:59 AM

And weren't you banned from this very forum under your old name of Starspirit for foul, abusive, and deeply personalised insults?

 

Sorry I forgot that you are another saddo who likes to live in the past and drag it up whenever it suits your purpose.

 

For the record I have never use foul language on here and never will.

 

Again, for the record, I was banned, along with another protaganist at the same time, for BOTH OF US continuing our spats and attacks on each other on the forum, but no objection was made when I reappeared under a new name the following day - indeed I had the moderators permission to returb - because I apologised to him and asked nicely!!

 

Again, for the record, I have never initiated a spat with anyone who did not have a go at me first - usually - just like you - completely unprovoked.

 

So if you want to go on digging up the past at least have the courtesy to get your facts straight.

 

Meanwhile may I respectfully suggest that you get a life and don't make assumptions!!

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Tracker I don't think adding "respectfully" before actually cuts it, if followed by "get a life" but then of course you know that !

 

But I do think it's funny after being off these forums for many months to see nothing has changed, or is it the onset of Winter that gets to everyone. :-S

[Tracker]

1footinthegrave - 2012-11-17 5:25 PM

 

Tracker I don't think adding "respectfully" before actually cuts it, if followed by "get a life" but then of course you know that !

 

But I do think it's funny after being off these forums for many months to see nothing has changed, or is it the onset of Winter that gets to everyone. :-S

 

Nothing has gotten to me - I just get a bit miffed when someone has an unprovoked go at me just because they 'think' that I had a veiled go at them!

If I have a go at anyone specifically it sure as heck ain't veiled - but if the cap fits anyone is of course perfectly at liberty to take it upon themselves to pick up the veil!

 

 

[crinklystarfish]

pelmetman - 2012-11-17 1:02 PM...So what happens if you've re plaited your vehicle lower, and the only physical change is a piece of paper and a new weight plate? :-S.....................Because if the vehicle was safe before how does a piece of paper make it unsafe? 8-)

I don't understand your point. If you are saying your vehicle was plated at say 4000kg but you went through a paper exercise only to downplate it to 3500kg, and then loaded it to 4000kg anyway, of course it makes no difference as far as the vehicle is concerned, but it does mean you are now breaking the law and the issue of whether you are able to handle such vehicle weight in an emergency is still relevant.

It seems like a hypothetical red-herring - if that's what you are trying to convey.

[crinklystarfish]

1footinthegrave - 2012-11-17 11:55 AM...You've far more chance of being injured or killed my the millions of phone users texting in their cars for example, and 38 Tonne HGV drivers who really should know better, or folk fiddling with their satnavs on the move, so as I said a sense of proportion is called for, someone 100kg over weight, or someone heading towards me texting with their phone in their lap, two wrongs don't make a right we know,but I'd sooner have someone with their eye on the road every time, slightly over weight or not, than the millions of idiots using mobile phones on the move.

All fair enough, and I generally agree.

[Guest pelmetman]

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-17 6:38 PM

pelmetman - 2012-11-17 1:02 PM...So what happens if you've re plaited your vehicle lower, and the only physical change is a piece of paper and a new weight plate? :-S.....................Because if the vehicle was safe before how does a piece of paper make it unsafe? 8-)

I don't understand your point. If you are saying your vehicle was plated at say 4000kg but you went through a paper exercise only to downplate it to 3500kg, and then loaded it to 4000kg anyway, of course it makes no difference as far as the vehicle is concerned, but it does mean you are now breaking the law and the issue of whether you are able to handle such vehicle weight in an emergency is still relevant.

It seems like a hypothetical red-herring - if that's what you are trying to convey.

How is it a red herring? :-S............If a vehicle was deemed safe before a paper exercise to downgrade for either age or tax reasons...... its still a safe vehicle even if its now technically overloaded *-).......I was querying how the authorities would deal with it?..........as they clearly can't do you for driving a unsafe overloaded vehicle ;-)

[crinklystarfish]

You may need to brush up on your understanding a bit.

[Guest pelmetman]

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-17 6:55 PM

 

You may need to brush up on your understanding a bit.

 

I understand it ;-)..............It seem's that if you often carry excess gear like motorbikes etc etc, and you reach 70 and don't want the hassle of a medical and changing a otherwise perfect camper, then it makes sense to down plate it and carry on regardless :D...................as it seems the chance of being stopped is negligible, and any offence will be a technical one, and the vehicle will be just as safe as it was before >:-)

[Tracker]

pelmetman - 2012-11-17 7:09 PM

 

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-17 6:55 PM

 

You may need to brush up on your understanding a bit.

 

I understand it ;-)..............It seem's that if you often carry excess gear like motorbikes etc etc, and you reach 70 and don't want the hassle of a medical and changing a otherwise perfect camper, then it makes sense to down plate it and carry on regardless :D...................as it seems the chance of being stopped is negligible, and any offence will be a technical one, and the vehicle will be just as safe as it was before >:-)

 

Dave - safe or not is obviously a key issue but not perhaps quite the real issue that some would have it given the relatively small extra weights usually involved compared to the van's actual capability rather than it's legal load limit?

 

However, being made to divest your van of all excess weight by the roadside by an unhelpful Gendarme (is there such a thing?) before being allowed to continue on your way as well as a hefty fine payable in cash (if you have it - or if not being taken to a cash point to get it) would be exceedingly inconvenient to some of us - although not to all it seems?

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'm willing to guess the amount of folk who know their payload is in the minority as well, even if they do and how it really equates to the real day to day changing of their situation, how much fuel/ water/ gas/ shopping/ duty free/ bikes/ picnic chairs/ boxes or bottles of wine they are carrying, sat dish on the roof, extra leisure battery they installed/ the list goes on and on, that they are carrying,and the margins they are left with as it affects their payload I'll bet most would not have a clue ( me included ) but we do not carry half the gear we see some folks carry :-(

[crinklystarfish]

pelmetman - 2012-11-17 7:09 PM

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-17 6:55 PMYou may need to brush up on your understanding a bit.

I understand it ;-)..............It seem's that if you often carry excess gear like motorbikes etc etc, and you reach 70 and don't want the hassle of a medical and changing a otherwise perfect camper, then it makes sense to down plate it and carry on regardless :D...................as it seems the chance of being stopped is negligible, and any offence will be a technical one, and the vehicle will be just as safe as it was before >:-)

So you do, but the OP was asking about an actual case of overloading, not a technical infringement arrived at by some convoluted paper shuffling so it was, and is, a red-herring.

You might also find if you are over 70 and driving at 4000kg having adopted this genius approach, that you are driving without, or not in accordance with, your driving licence. Good luck if you are stopped, or crash.

[Mike B.]

pelmetman - 2012-11-17 7:09 PM

 

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-17 6:55 PM

 

You may need to brush up on your understanding a bit.

 

I understand it ;-)..............It seem's that if you often carry excess gear like motorbikes etc etc, and you reach 70 and don't want the hassle of a medical and changing a otherwise perfect camper, then it makes sense to down plate it and carry on regardless :D...................as it seems the chance of being stopped is negligible, and any offence will be a technical one, and the vehicle will be just as safe as it was before >:-)

 

 

Am I missing something here? A medical for DVLA is £95-done at your local GPs & takes about 1hr. All this replating, downgrading etc etc must be a load of hassle and subsequent risk re overloading /getting caught/arguing the odds etc and surely would be far easier to just have the medical if you want to keep your existing van and existing licence?

If you fail the medical, you're not fit to drive-end of story-making it 500kgs lighter won't make you healthy!

Mike

[Guest pelmetman]

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-17 8:11 PM

You might also find if you are over 70 and driving at 4000kg having adopted this genius approach, that you are driving without, or not in accordance with, your driving licence. Good luck if you are stopped, or crash.

 

Well I'd plead ignorance :D..................and blame the wife for putting to much stuff on board ;-) ........well that's if they bothered to check that I'd already re plated the van to a lower weight............and that's if I'd been unlucky enough to have been stopped in the first place 8-)....................but as they say there's a first time for everything *-)

[Robinhood]

pelmetman - 2012-11-17 8:41 PM

 

Well I'd plead ignorance :D

 

 

....you'd probably be successful ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Robinhood - 2012-11-17 8:44 PM

 

pelmetman - 2012-11-17 8:41 PM

 

Well I'd plead ignorance :D

 

 

....you'd probably be successful ;-)

 

Can I call you as a character witness Robin? :D

[Mel B]

pelmetman - 2012-11-17 9:23 PM

 

Robinhood - 2012-11-17 8:44 PM

 

pelmetman - 2012-11-17 8:41 PM

 

Well I'd plead ignorance :D

 

 

....you'd probably be successful ;-)

 

Can I call you as a character witness Robin? :D

 

... what character would you like to be Dave ... Daffy Duck, Mickey Mouse ... or Goofy! ... or even Poofy! :D

[thebishbus]

This dreaded medical at 70 and costing about £100, is a strange thing. After having it myself, I thought that anyone that failed, should probably not be driving anything of any weight anyway. In my case it consisted of seeing the practice nurse, she checked my blood pressure, my weight, then I had to read an eye chart, with or without glasses, she then asked how many alcohol units I consumed a week (21 too many, 18 ok ). Then I saw the Doctor, he checked my medical history on his computer , then asked me a few questions , them checked my reflexes, hammer on the knee thing , then said yes, in my case, or I presume could have been no, and that was it.

Brian B.

[crinklystarfish]

Tracker - 2012-11-16 2:38 PM I suppose it really was expecting too much, given the emotive topic, for this not to quickly degenerate into a mud slinging contest once the 'holier than though' brigade got wind of something to really have a go at. What happened to reasoned discussion - again?

It just struck me as particularly hypocritical that someone who had been banned for using foul, abusive, and deeply personalised insults, and who continues to this day be one of the central characters in many unpleasant exchanges, should himself adopt a "holier than thou" stance and call for reasoned discussion. It's the last thing he's actually interested in.

As for the claim that he does not instigate spats, well, any casual observation will show his usual modus operandi. He was banned because of it, he's continued it for years, he continues to do it. He stirs trouble (often quite subtly) is taken to task, and then claims the status of innocent victim forced to defend himself. 

It's tiresome.

It will be noted he never did answer my direct question what / who he meant by the "holier than thou brigade" an example of the kind of provocative / stirring comment he drops into threads.

Of course, he will now protest it was done in all innocence, just like every other time it's happened...

As I wrote, it's tiresome.

[crinklystarfish]

pelmetman - 2012-11-17 8:41 PM

crinklystarfish - 2012-11-17 8:11 PMYou might also find if you are over 70 and driving at 4000kg having adopted this genius approach, that you are driving without, or not in accordance with, your driving licence. Good luck if you are stopped, or crash.

Well I'd plead ignorance :D..................and blame the wife for putting to much stuff on board ;-) ........well that's if they bothered to check that I'd already re plated the van to a lower weight............and that's if I'd been unlucky enough to have been stopped in the first place 8-)....................but as they say there's a first time for everything *-)

Good to see that you take your duty of care as a motorised road user so seriously. I'm sure that if you do unfortunately hurt someone they'll see the funny side too.

As a matter of interest, do you think you would pass a current test to drive a vehicle over 3500kg?