arjxh56 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Whilst hunting around for a new motorhome i have noticed that the larger vans are hanging around much longer than they used to? Are people starting to look more towards the compact vans or has it always been this way and i've only just realised?! Although they are hanging around, the prices don't appear to have dropped or be dropping.. not even with seasonal change? Some of the sellers are also unwilling to negotiate.. they are just sitting on a depreciating van for months with the original asking price getting more and more out of line with what the market is offering! am i missing something? is this how its always been ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 probably :-D Croatia is over run with Germans in the summer and the number of coach size luxury campers is amazing...all with elderly couples in..they can obviously afford the high running costs and not be bothered about the escalating fuel prices either. good luck to them,they are beutiful vehicles. We on the other hand and many others are more then happy with a panel van size vehicle as campers at heart.....It .takes all sorts I guess and yes I think your right larger vans probably harder to shift these days....if your heart set on one buy German, they are happy to negotiate and prices better anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 arjxh56 - 2012-12-05 10:22 AM Whilst hunting around for a new motorhome i have noticed that the larger vans are hanging around much longer than they used to? Are people starting to look more towards the compact vans or has it always been this way and i've only just realised?! Although they are hanging around, the prices don't appear to have dropped or be dropping.. not even with seasonal change? Some of the sellers are also unwilling to negotiate.. they are just sitting on a depreciating van for months with the original asking price getting more and more out of line with what the market is offering! am i missing something? is this how its always been ? I am looking for another van at the moment and far from being unwilling to negotiate it is hard to get out of the dealers, they are all very willing, at least the ones i have spoken to are. As to size maybe people are looking smaller for a number of reasons and I have been pleasantly suprised at the price i am being offered for my PVC. However you have to buy what suits you, if not you will regret it. I feel any van over 3500kgs will be harder to shift but it has been this way for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 We have toyed with the idea of changing our PVC for one on the longer wheelbase x250 to have two single beds, there are not very many about, and we've been surprised that ones that are, if they are good, seem to sell before we get a look in, and to mirror the above comment we have been offered as a PX exactly what we paid for our van nearly four years ago, staggering really considering the hit we took on two previous coachbuilts, perhaps it's no more of a mystery that good PVC conversions are thin on the ground still, whereas coachbuilts are ten a penny. Rupert ( poster above ) hates his new one after coming from a coachbuilt, maybe a pm ? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 No shortage of twin single bed. 636 m vans in Europe...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 One of the reasons is that with the current Ducato the panel vans are so much bigger than they used to be and getting very close to the size of some coachbuilts. Obviously you will never get the same space in a sloping sided van that you will in a square sided coachbuilt box but the compromise is much less than it used to be and pvcs have come on a long way in a few years. To me that is what makes the current crop of pvcs so much more acceptable to many people - even us - so maybe next time even this dedicated couchbuilter might make the downsize - but don't hold yer breath just yet!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 If only some of the Van conversions had a slightly larger galley then they would be more appealing. Murvi and IH have got it spot on but the europeans seem to go along with the idea that cooking is best done outside on a barbecue, even their coachbuilts are minimal in some. It's always a compromise one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 It appears to me that the current crop of PVC's are bigger than our coach built, Horace is a mere 17'7" long, and as they lack the height there layouts are restricted by not having the advantage of a over cab bed ;-).........hence the kitchen's have to be small and if they want a permanent made up bed, the living area gets squashed :-S But I guess they know their market is mainly old codgers who can't climb ladders :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-12-06 12:00 PM If only some of the Van conversions had a slightly larger galley then they would be more appealing. Murvi and IH have got it spot on but the europeans seem to go along with the idea that cooking is best done outside on a barbecue, even their coachbuilts are minimal in some. It's always a compromise one way or the other. there are some with 3 burner hobs...not many though, and if you really want to I guess nothing stopping you fitting a oven or microwave..my layout could accommodate either in the lower part of wardrobe above fridge I guess.. kitchen unit in panel vans tend to be narrow. Personally I spend more time in bed in the van then cooking, so that is our priority , a proper mattress on a comfortable large bed.... if there was a demand I am sure the Euro vans would meet it, we manage and I am a fussy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 rolandrat - 2012-12-06 12:00 PM If only some of the Van conversions had a slightly larger galley then they would be more appealing. Murvi and IH have got it spot on but the europeans seem to go along with the idea that cooking is best done outside on a barbecue, even their coachbuilts are minimal in some. It's always a compromise one way or the other. No problems with the cooking side in our unloved PVC. It has a four burner hob a decent size oven , grill and microwave. Also a couple of pull out work surfaces give some table top space for preparation, it is all the other, to us, minus points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazdog6007 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 our autosleeper warwick is perhaps the ideal pvc as it has all the luxury of a well spec coachbuilt in a more compact space,which is the compromise.35miles per gal,and i dont have to rush out with a dampmeter every time it rains.love huge a class motors,but not the upkeep.see lots of couples in these and wonder why they need all that space.ego has a lot to do with it ,but if they can stand the dump in value good luck! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Tracker - 2012-12-06 10:06 AM One of the reasons is that with the current Ducato the panel vans are so much bigger than they used to be and getting very close to the size of some coachbuilts. Obviously you will never get the same space in a sloping sided van that you will in a square sided coachbuilt box but the compromise is much less than it used to be and pvcs have come on a long way in a few years. To me that is what makes the current crop of pvcs so much more acceptable to many people - even us - so maybe next time even this dedicated couchbuilter might make the downsize - but don't hold yer breath just yet!! They may be as long Rich but believe me they have nowhere near the space. The problem is the lack of width, no way around this one, every time one of you wants to move around the van you have to negotiate it with your partner. That big sliding door and the rear doors also limit storage space and both sets of doors really compromise the interior layout. You can, of course, live with this but it all compromises space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 H that is you personal and baffling opinion, most would disagree with it...everything you dont like could have been identified before purchasing. I can assure you the size that I am, we still had to negotiate around each other in our wide CB. Yes sometimes we will have to back up into the bathroom or something, but the that is the price of having a smaller vehicle..you really do learn to adapt, but only if you want to, and happy with a PV! *-) I choose very carefully, there where vans on my list that i could not use the toilet. or stretch out on rear seat as table would not move forward enough..The devil is in the detail! and after spending 2 days at German show I did a complete turnaround and bought a different van then I had intended to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-12-06 1:24 PM They may be as long Rich but believe me they have nowhere near the space. The problem is the lack of width, no way around this one, every time one of you wants to move around the van you have to negotiate it with your partner. That big sliding door and the rear doors also limit storage space and both sets of doors really compromise the interior layout. You can, of course, live with this but it all compromises space. Absolutely Henry which is what we discovered and why we have not gone down that route, preferring instead to get an overweight coachbuilt! It is of course a matter of personal choice and no matter how adamant some are that their way is the best way the fact remains that the best way is what is right for each individual. We can all balance the advantages and disadvantages of both so - never say never again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamw Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Some interesting comments re PVC's. Probably another interesting point which can be an encouragement for those thinking of buying a PVC of UK origin is how they hold their price. Some may see the initial UK prices as expensive when compared to those from abroad. The truth is they are different in terms of the needs they are designed to meet e.g. kitchen, rear lounge etc and generally do not benefit pricewise from the economies of scale that the volume producers benefit from. Also I accept that they are not to everyones taste. However, if you come across an advertisement for a used Murvi, IH, Vantage and some others you have to be quick as they tend to sell in days rather than months. Very few seem to find their way on to dealer's forecourts as they are easy to sell privately and, of equal importance, at a good price. PVC's you do find on dealer forecourts understandably tend to be from the lower priced volume producers. I know one UK converter who has a list of potential customers who have expressed interest in any of his vans that come back in as a PX. The last time I spoke to him he'd stopped adding to his list as it was getting unrealistically long. Because some converters have customers waiting for PX vehicles you also tend to to get a good PX price. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-12-06 1:43 PM H that is you personal and baffling opinion, most would disagree with it...everything you dont like could have been identified before purchasing. I can assure you the size that I am, we still had to negotiate around each other in our wide CB. Yes sometimes we will have to back up into the bathroom or something, but the that is the price of having a smaller vehicle..you really do learn to adapt, but only if you want to, and happy with a PV! *-) I choose very carefully, there where vans on my list that i could not use the toilet. or stretch out on rear seat as table would not move forward enough..The devil is in the detail! and after spending 2 days at German show I did a complete turnaround and bought a different van then I had intended to Eddie the interior space is not an opinion it is a fact, did say in my post you can learn to live with it, indeed we did and have used the van for a number of short trips now and one slightly longer one, just pointing it out. Every van we have puchased has had points we do not like and no matter how much you research you can still get things wrong. The PVC, again for us, has a few problems we are not prepared to live with. OK my wife could have spent time trying to open and close the side door but it did not occur to us at the time. We think PVC,s are no good, you think they are the greatest, simply a differance of opinion, why do you have a problem with that. The only good thing is we have been offered great p/ex prices so will loose little money on the next exchange, hopefully we will get things right this time. The pvc is the only time we have made a bad mistake with buying vans, oh no we bought a load of german c**p called a hymer a few years ago, worst mistake ever, nothing but trouble and lousy p/ex price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 rupert123 - 2012-12-06 1:24 PM Tracker - 2012-12-06 10:06 AM One of the reasons is that with the current Ducato the panel vans are so much bigger than they used to be and getting very close to the size of some coachbuilts. Obviously you will never get the same space in a sloping sided van that you will in a square sided coachbuilt box but the compromise is much less than it used to be and pvcs have come on a long way in a few years. To me that is what makes the current crop of pvcs so much more acceptable to many people - even us - so maybe next time even this dedicated couchbuilter might make the downsize - but don't hold yer breath just yet!! They may be as long Rich but believe me they have nowhere near the space. The problem is the lack of width, no way around this one, every time one of you wants to move around the van you have to negotiate it with your partner. That big sliding door and the rear doors also limit storage space and both sets of doors really compromise the interior layout. You can, of course, live with this but it all compromises space. I had exactly the same complaint with regards to rear doors and side doors, hence we went the IH route, the fixed rear panel allows a far superior layout, and the van has loads of storage space, and all the kit anyone would need, unless you have specific needs like a wheelchair. And there is the option for two single beds in some models, if I had the cash based on our experiences of our almost vintage IH ( 2003 ) that has everything a CB has, I'd buy the latest model like a shot. Sorry to say it but Rupert123 obviously bought the wrong van, we have no problem moving around, and although maybe hard to believe we actually found with their design we had more usable storage space than both of our previous low profile CB's. I'll grant you that overall they are not as wide externally, but with clever design it really does not impact that much at all inside, and some of the slimmer CB's are about the same. Add in car like handling and for us that's the icing on the cake, but of course I accept may not suite everyone, especially if you take bikes along, but to the OP, if you get a chance look at a good second hand IH, they really are excellent and different from most PVC's Perhaps if they opened a plant in Germany even Judgemental would be singing their praises ( mind you they would have to get their prices down I guess for him. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-12-06 2:34 PM rupert123 - 2012-12-06 1:24 PM Tracker - 2012-12-06 10:06 AM One of the reasons is that with the current Ducato the panel vans are so much bigger than they used to be and getting very close to the size of some coachbuilts. Obviously you will never get the same space in a sloping sided van that you will in a square sided coachbuilt box but the compromise is much less than it used to be and pvcs have come on a long way in a few years. To me that is what makes the current crop of pvcs so much more acceptable to many people - even us - so maybe next time even this dedicated couchbuilter might make the downsize - but don't hold yer breath just yet!! They may be as long Rich but believe me they have nowhere near the space. The problem is the lack of width, no way around this one, every time one of you wants to move around the van you have to negotiate it with your partner. That big sliding door and the rear doors also limit storage space and both sets of doors really compromise the interior layout. You can, of course, live with this but it all compromises space. I had exactly the same complaint with regards to rear doors and side doors, hence we went the IH route, the fixed rear panel allows a far superior layout, and the van has loads of storage space, and all the kit anyone would need, unless you have specific needs like a wheelchair. And their is the option for two single beds in some models, if I had the cash based on our experiences of our almost vintage IH ( 2003 ) that has everything a CB has, I'd buy the latest model like a shot, perhaps if they opened a plant in Germany even Judgemental would be singing their praises. :D I like the rear doors, easy access to gas/water tank and storage, bed tilts up for practical load carrying, and in 40+deg heat we sleep with doors open instead of in a stifling CB :-S same goes for sliding door,yes can be awkward to close, there is a knack, Mel has learnt it...This thread just beginning to repeat ad nauseum past prejudices. I blame the weather. really dont want to get embroiled again but no way i would ever entertain a UK PV, prices are beyond a joke as is the quality...as is picture of van above...so where do I fit the bikes or stuff to take to tip,a panel van with non of the practical advantages... *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 "Judgemental would be singing their praises" Perhaps not then, if I want to take stuff to the tip it would not be in something costing 35 / 50 k, having said that we do have a tow bar so could utilise a small trailer, even for bikes I guess, but I did cover the bike problem with the IH rear fixed panel. but for anyone else this is a home grown UK company that produces fabulous vans and whenever possible I like to support a UK company if it produces excellent goods and has as we've found top notch customer after sales and service. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 mine cost 37 (45 here) and for us nice to have a practical multi purpose vehicle...recent house refurb meant about a dozen trips to dump..lined with hardboard and dust sheets, I am far from precious about a van.... its there to be used. I will show you my idea of "fabulous" once I stop laughing..and less then some "bespoke" UK vans. fully winterised with double floors etc..(electric step and reversing seats standard equipment! 8-) ) http://www.la-strada.de/?app=configurator&mod=categorie&category=3&itemid=34&menuid=3&languageid=1 words like "nice" and "fabulous" are subjective and dont bare scrutiny when you look at spec and value for money. if you are fixated on an odd layout, little choice but the to pay over the top. but link above does have a rear lounge H van with drop don bed as well. rear lounge accomodates forward facing seat belts also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-12-06 3:25 PM mime cost 37 (45 here) and nice to have a practical multi purpose vehicle...recent house refurb meant about a dozen trips to dump..lined with hardboard and dust sheets, I am far from precious about a van.... its there to be used*-) You've opened my eyes, I might go up on our local lay-by and start flogging hot dogs, instead of having it parked up some of the time, might be able to run to a nice new IH then with the profits. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-12-06 3:32 PM JudgeMental - 2012-12-06 3:25 PM mime cost 37 (45 here) and nice to have a practical multi purpose vehicle...recent house refurb meant about a dozen trips to dump..lined with hardboard and dust sheets, I am far from precious about a van.... its there to be used*-) You've opened my eyes, I might go up on our local lay-by and start flogging hot dogs, instead of having it parked up some of the time, might be able to run to a nice new IH then with the profits. :D if your that hard up...knock yourself out! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 JudgeMental - 2012-12-06 3:48 PM 1footinthegrave - 2012-12-06 3:32 PM JudgeMental - 2012-12-06 3:25 PM mime cost 37 (45 here) and nice to have a practical multi purpose vehicle...recent house refurb meant about a dozen trips to dump..lined with hardboard and dust sheets, I am far from precious about a van.... its there to be used*-) You've opened my eyes, I might go up on our local lay-by and start flogging hot dogs, instead of having it parked up some of the time, might be able to run to a nice new IH then with the profits. :D if your that hard up...knock yourself out! :-D Well not that hard up that I cannot afford to hire a van to take building rubble and junk to a tip. . :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 1footinthegrave - 2012-12-06 4:06 PM JudgeMental - 2012-12-06 3:48 PM 1footinthegrave - 2012-12-06 3:32 PM JudgeMental - 2012-12-06 3:25 PM mime cost 37 (45 here) and nice to have a practical multi purpose vehicle...recent house refurb meant about a dozen trips to dump..lined with hardboard and dust sheets, I am far from precious about a van.... its there to be used*-) You've opened my eyes, I might go up on our local lay-by and start flogging hot dogs, instead of having it parked up some of the time, might be able to run to a nice new IH then with the profits. :D if your that hard up...knock yourself out! :-D Well not that hard up that I cannot afford to hire a van to take building rubble and junk to a tip. . :D Errr...but I have a van. have not cleaned it since summer holidays either, (another practical aspect :-D) really could not care less. swapping it when it gets really dirty.. already done a deal :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1footinthegrave Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Was that your advert I saw, Adria Twin,one careful fastidious owner, all joking apart we all have different takes on what suites best, the OP will probably neither choose an Adria, or an IH, but at least he's got some viewpoints, one thing it seems we agree on is a PVC can be as good or better that a CB depending on your needs. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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