Clunky sounds from "wheels"

[HymerVan]

I e-mailed East Neuk this morning and they are going to pick up the ball and run with it by speaking to "their man at Citroen".

I will simply recover the vehicle from AC and await developments.

Meantime Citroen's stated position is that shock absorbers are only guaranteed for 6 months or 6000 miles and categorically will not do anything. This clearly is nonsense.

Anyone want to take bets on the outcome !

Meantime thanks again for super well informed feedback.

 

[Brambles]

My bet is there is nothng wrong with the shocks and there is a rattling sound coming from the brake caliper units. This is getting transmitted into the strutt and is what the dealer picked up on his accoustic sensors. Have you done the test of applying the brakes when the sound appears e.g. going down a cobbled road?

[kelly58]

Slightly off topic , but Citroen related I had an 04 plate Citroen Berlingo Forte and it developed a " clunk " mostly when I came off the road onto my drive obviously a 90 degree turn. I had it back to my local Citroen Dealership and asked if someone would give it a test drive , but not the reason why , this they did the workshop took me for a run and then said  doe's it always make that noise ? no I said not always. They had it in and checked the suspension / wheels / brakes and found nothing . Their only assumption was the rubber bushes on the suspension tie bars could be " Dry " and a squirt of silicone not WD 40 spray might help. This we tried and seemed to work for a while , but after 6 years and 30,000 + miles it never went away and never got any worse and never had a failed MOT.

[HymerVan]

I am very pleased to say that following my contacting the converters East Neuk they contacted Citroen and expressed their concern in clear terms. Citroen have assured East Neuk that they are "on the case".

Additionally East Neuk have given me an unambiguous assurance that one way or another they will sort this out for me.

When I uplifted the vehicle on 7th January 2012 Arnold Clark gave me a written report that both front top mounts and both front shock absorbers needed replacement.

I therefore await developments but I am entirely confident this will be resolved to my satisfaction.

For technical interest I will post the outcome in due course.

[HymerVan]

Well this is an update not a resolution.

Citroen have been in touch with me to say that the suspension parts are "out of warranty" quoting a 6000mile/six month parameter. This does not exist in the warranty wording but is "Citroen policy". I have put robust and clear arguments to them but they are not listening.

They have offered to pay 50% of the repair cost £337.46 as a gesture of goodwill.

Since East Neuk Campervans will sort this out and meet my costs the next move is really up to them and they continue to speak to Citroen.

[Dr Dave]

HymerVan - 2013-01-26 9:36 AM

 

Well this is an update not a resolution.

Citroen have been in touch with me to say that the suspension parts are "out of warranty" quoting a 6000mile/six month parameter. This does not exist in the warranty wording but is "Citroen policy". I have put robust and clear arguments to them but they are not listening.

They have offered to pay 50% of the repair cost £337.46 as a gesture of goodwill.

Since East Neuk Campervans will sort this out and meet my costs the next move is really up to them and they continue to speak to Citroen.

Citroen can have what ever policy's they like, however they do not override the sale of goods act which stipulates the goods / vehicle must be fit for purpose and these parts are clearly not.

 

[HymerVan]

Sale of Goods Act is irrelevant to my relationship with Citroen. That is not the same thing as saying that I agree with their actions.

Sale of Goods Act is relevant to my relationship with supplier to me East Neuk but I have no dispute with them. They WILL fix it come what may. My communings with Citroen are only being undertaken to assist them.

[George..]

Hi,

We had a similar noise from the front of our previous van when turning the steering to one side at Eurotunnel ready for a trip to Switzerland and its high passes.Eurotunnels own breakdown people found and rectified the problem. It turned out to be the front off side brake caliper was hanging by a few threads of one bolt, one bolt having come off already. This only a few days after having new brake pads,calipers ect fitted by our then usual garage ready for this trip.

George

[HymerVan]

I am very pleased to say that my Van has now been fixed. I long test drive today indicated no problems.

The whole experience can be summarized as follows :-

Following an inspection of my Van the local branch of Arnold Clark issued a report stating that both suspension legs and both top mounts had failed and that their replacement was safety critical. They also advised had Citroen would not cover the repair under warranty. I contacted the suppliers of my vehicle East Neuk Campervans (“ENC”) who were extremely helpful but also sceptical that four major suspension components could have failed in such a short time in the absence of major abuse of the vehicle.

Further direct communication with Citroen resulted in a goodwill offer:-

“As a gesture of goodwill, I'm happy to offer a 50% contribution to the repair costs. I've been told by Ste the repair cost for you will now be £337.46.”

In the course of subsequent correspondence Citroen appeared to say that “wearing parts” are not covered by warranty in any circumstance" although I was not able to obtain clarification from them that that was their position. They also stated that the parts were not covered because the vehicle was over 6 months old or had covered over 6000 miles even though they agreed that neither of these parameters existed in the warranty wording . In response to that challenge they offered to increase their contribution to 60%. In other words Citroen offered no coherent or justified explanation why they considered that they had no obligations under the warranty for what had happened.

At this point I decided that since ENC had clearly undertaken to fix the vehicle I stepped aside from the discussions with Citroen.

Matters then took an unexpected turn insofar as Arnold Clark on their own initiative contacted me resulting in an e-mail in the following terms :-

“ As per our telephone conversation today.

We have had a vehicle similar to yours which had the same fault on it (a knocking noise from the front suspension). After lengthy investigation my technician found that the bump stop, which moves with the suspension was hitting the top strut plate thus causing the knock. My technician secured the bump stop to the top strut plate using cable ties and tiger seal which has stopped the knocking noise. He has sent a report to Citroen technical who have replied saying they were not aware of this issue and at this time are unable to offer another solution.

With this in mind I can offer to carry out the same repair on your vehicle but would not be able to claim it under warranty as it is deemed an adjustment, the cost to carry out this work would be £XXX inclusive of vat. If you would like us to carry out the work for you, please contact me at the branch on …..”

In a follow up e-mail Arnold Clark went on to say :-

“There is not technically a faulty part, the bump stop is designed to be free moving, but appears to be knocking against the top strut plate resulting in the noise. The price I have quoted is for both sides, obviously during the strip down process if we find something different to this we will need to amend costs as necessary.”

Additionally Arnold Clark agreed that their initial diagnosis (which as above concluded that both suspension struts and both top mounnts needed replacement) had been carried out without a full strip down of the suspension and might not be correct.

In other words they were not certain that the “bump stop” issue with the other customer’s vehicle was replicated in mine and there was no guarantee that the work would cure the problem and no certainty as to what work was needed or its cost.

In consultation with ENC it was decided that I would ask an independent local garage to strip down the suspension fully and thoroughly examine it. They were instructed at ENCs cost to do whatever was needed to ascertain the fault and do whatever was needed to fix it. That examination resulted in the somewhat surprising conclusion that the problem was that the bump stops on both sides were moving up and down the suspension leg and the mechanic reported that they are not fixed or constrained at one end except by friction. They also commented that they had not seen that style of construction before. Their solution was to weld a retaining lug onto the suspension to inhibit the movement of the bump stop. This fix appears to have cured the problem.

In summary :-

Although Arnold Clark originally misdiagnosed the problem it appears that it was a very unusual one and it also appears that they did subsequently correctly identify what the problem was and to devise a solution to correct it even though perhaps not the most elegant solution.

Citroen in my opinion have behaved badly (although apart from raising my blood pressure that had not actual consequence for me).

ENC have behaved splendidly, maintained communication and reassurance, and ensured that I have incurred no cost from this unfortunate problem.

A big thank you to the local garage who did a great job.

Watch the BumpetyBump thread by MelB to see how her problem is resolved and my sister thread speculating that there may be other problem bump stops out there.

Last but by no means least thanks for all contributions and support especially from Brian Kirby and Nick Fisher

 

 

[RogerC]

HymerVan - 2013-01-26 9:36 AMWell this is an update not a resolution.Citroen have been in touch with me to say that the suspension parts are "out of warranty" quoting a 6000mile/six month parameter. This does not exist in the warranty wording but is "Citroen policy". I have put robust and clear arguments to them but they are not listening.They have offered to pay 50% of the repair cost £337.46 as a gesture of goodwill. Since East Neuk Campervans will sort this out and meet my costs the next move is really up to them and they continue to speak to Citroen.

 

So Citroen are saying their 'shocks' are only warranted for 6 months/6000 miles.  Well if there ever was a possibility of me buying a Citroen there most certainly isn't now.

 

The following is a cut/paste from Koni shock absorber manufacturers:

A set of KONI shock absorbers will usually outlive your car............

 

Maybe Citroen need to change their supplier.

 

[Brian Kirby]

HymerVan - 2013-03-06 2:25 PM........................Last but by no means least thanks for all contributions and support especially from Brian Kirby and Nick Fisher

Very kind, Laurence, though I'm not sure I contributed much that was of use!

 

I'm still baffled by Citroen's attitude. Either the bump stop is designed to be bounced up and down the strut spindle, in which case it seems to me inevitable it will create knocking noises, or it isn't, in which case there is/was a defect.

 

In the former case one would expect the manufacturer to know exactly what is happening and why, and to be able to advise the garage and the customer accordingly, stating that it is a characteristic of this design that from time to time it will cause knocking sounds, explaining why, and clarifying that it is not indicative of damage, or liable to cause damage, or a cause for concern.

 

In the latter case, one would expect them to honour the wording of their warranty, which specifically states that in the case of items that are excluded from warranty cover where they are subject to wear, they will nevertheless be repaired under warranty where defective as opposed to worn (my paraphrasing).

 

My impression is that your Citroen Customer Services bod had no knowledge of this, either as a characteristic of the strut, or a manufacturing defect, and was making it up as he went along, with the primary intent of protecting Citroen from the cost of repair. Fair enough I suppose, they pay his salary!

 

However, I'm glad the problem is now fixed, and you are happy with the way the van drives. I feel somewhat for East Neuk, who have very nobly picked up Citroen's proper costs. Did I read that they are now offering their conversions on Fiat badged vans? Cause and effect, I wonder?

[Mel B]

I've just reported on the outcome of my 'fix' on the below thread:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Is-Mel-s-Bumpety-Bump-Van-Alone-/30464/#M356845

 

IN a nutshell, the R/H front bump stop was moving about on the suspension rod when it should NOT have been as it was too loose, the L/H front one doesn't do this as it is a nice tight fit on the rod.

 

So, there was a 'fault' with the R/H bump stop it was nothing to do with wear and tear and it has been replaced without quibble by Fiat ... Fiat 1, Citroen 0! :-D