Feet up or not?

[bolero boy]

Am I the only one who thinks feet up lounging is perfectly possible in a front lounge MH?

Almost every reviewer seems to think that this restful position is only possible in a rear lounged MH or even on a fixed bed as in Andrew Bromley's article on the Hobby Premium Drive 70GE.

We have a front longe Bolero 680 FB and we just swivel the cab seats and put our feet on the side sofas. I know this is sometimes more difficult in a 'euro lounge' arrangement with dinette, but these vans often have L-shaped dinettes and/or a side jump seat that can accommodate 'upped' feet.

We are looking at changing the van in the next few months and feet up lounging is most definitely a priority (despite spending months outside the van in the sunshine on the Continent) and I will be road testing any new contender for the feet up situation. However, I wont be taking the Bromleys' advice in this area.

We prefer front lounge MHs as we (contrary to many others) see rear lounges as a huge waste of space (where you can have a lovely comfy bed rather than a made up one) that often results in little storage as the underseats are taken up with heaters and other services.

Just a personal viewpoint, but I wonder how many readers would strike a van off their shopping list as a result of a reviewer's comment?

[Wooie]

Definitely NOT !

[bolero boy]

Wooie - 2013-01-12 10:02 AM

 

Definitely NOT !

Graham, you were too quick, as was the stupid forum software that posted the thread before I had typed anything.... ;-)

[malc d]

bolero boy - 2013-01-12 9:55 AM

 

 

 

Just a personal viewpoint, but I wonder how many readers would strike a van off their shopping list as a result of a reviewer's comment?

 

 

 

I might take note of reviewers' comment regarding technical info about a van but NEVER about comfort !

 

' Comfort ' is very much a matter of personal choice.

 

;-)

[lennyhb]

100% agree.

 

Two things you spend most time doing in a Motorhome is Sleeping and Driving, a good bed and good cab seats are a must. We used to be tuggers our last caravan had a fixed bed what a relief after that jigsaw you had to do at bedtime.

The British idea of a rear lounge with the night-time jigsaw puzzle has grown from the caravan industry and in my book just does not work in a Motorhome.

 

We would never buy a Motorhome without a fixed bed or fixed table last thing we want to do when we park up is to start building our home.

Our van has a very comfortable large bed & the best seats in the house are the ISRI cab seats what more could you want. (lol)

 

As for reviews I take them with a pinch of salt, most reviewers appear to be more interested in the graphics and what colour the van is rather than how practical to use and don't forget they want to keep their advertisers happy. :D

[Tracker]

I have always viewed magazine reviews with suspicion as it has always been obvious from the lack of real criticism just whose side the reviewers are on. Following the disinformation and blind eye turning to the reverse gear fiasco I lost any remaining trust and now don't bother with them - or even the magazines any more.

 

We too like feet up lounging although having often been sat in the drivers seat for much of the day it is not somewhere I want to sit all evening as well so we prefer the space and flexibility of the two long single bed / huge double layout of either a front or rear lounge layout where feet up with a pillow or cushion at your back is very comfy - well it is for us!

 

I can see the attraction of a fixed bed but so many are badly compromised in length, width, cut off and loo access. For us bed making with Duvalays rolled up in the overcab takes but a minute or two and that slight inconvenience is more than made up for by the daytime living space and the kipping comfort of a long and wide and non tapered bed - pure bliss!!

 

Each to their own!!

[Wooie]

bolero boy - 2013-01-12 10:07 AM

 

Wooie - 2013-01-12 10:02 AM

 

Definitely NOT !

Graham, you were too quick, as was the stupid forum software that posted the thread before I had typed anything.... ;-)

 

 

I apologise most profusely and unreservedly for jumping the gun !

 

I shall go and sit in the Naughty Corner immediately, hang my head in shame and repeatedly smack myself with a damp copy of an old MMM.

 

It turned out to be nothing at all like i thought it would.

 

Sorrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyy.

[kelly58]

Tracker - We too like feet up lounging although having often been sat in the drivers seat for much of the day it is not somewhere I want to sit all evening as well so we prefer the space and flexibility of the two long single bed / huge double layout of either a front or rear lounge layout where feet up with a pillow or cushion at your back is very comfy - well it is for us!I can see the attraction of a fixed bed but so many are badly compromised in length, width, cut off and loo access. For us bed making with Duvalays rolled up in the overcab takes but a minute or two and that slight inconvenience is more than made up for by the daytime living space and the kipping comfort of a long and wide and non tapered bed - pure bliss!!Each to their own!!

I could  not agree more we had a fixed bed 680FB but it did not work for us we certainly prefer the front lounge layout .

[bolero boy]

Our 680FB has a front lounge (with feet up lounging) AND a fixed bed, so best of both worlds?

 

My point was not to polarise opinion on layout, which has very many different points of view, all of them right ;-) , more to find out if it was only the Bromley's who were unable (technically possibly?) to swivel a cab seat and raise one's legs.

 

However, back to layouts B-) , I've been looking at an A Class Pilote 640LR which does not have a fixed bed but a large over the cab (which can be stored complete with bedding in place), huge lounge (with feet up lounging ;-) ), largish kitchen and great bathroom with seperate shower and wardrobes all in 6.48m length.

 

Payload is reasonable, but might upgrade to 3650 - downsides, serious lack of external storage other than some underfloor space (it has a double floor with heated services) and I feel I would miss our underbed locker.

 

We also currently have two bench sofas which have fully uncluttered space with supremely easy lifting to allow vast storage and unhindered acces both sides. In contrast, the Pilote seems to make access to the (partially cluttered) large side sofa extremely awkward. The sofa is about 30% longer than ours but looks like it would hold less than half the stuff!

 

We like the double floor for warmth and insulation and the A Class forward aspect of large open cab and the fact that we would be shaving half a metre off length......but that storage.....?

 

Anyone have one of these or the similar Hymer B544 or Rapido 9048DF? any comments on the storage abilities of any of these.

 

The other big advantage of the A Class interpretation of the drop down bed layout over coachbuilts is that the bed is fully at the forward end of the van leaving the whole lounge free even with the bed in use whereas the coachbuilts drop the bed right over the loung making it unusable if one of you wants an early night!

;-)

[Tracker]

bolero boy - 2013-01-12 11:58 AM

The other big advantage of the A Class interpretation of the drop down bed layout over coachbuilts is that the bed is fully at the forward end of the van leaving the whole lounge free even with the bed in use whereas the coachbuilts drop the bed right over the lounge making it unusable if one of you wants an early night!

 

Climbing up to go to bed is fine as long as you are able to do it and don't mind the difficulties associated with night time perambulations in the dark when half asleep - not to mention if the far side to the steps occupant needs to climb out over their partner!

 

If those limitations are worth the extra space and generally huge and comfortable bed - even though you very often can't sit up in bed due to lack of height and would have nothing to lean against except soft curtains.

 

Not knocking it - just pointing out the differences!

[bolero boy]

Rich, thanks for the comments.

The bed drops down quite low and hopping up can easily be done without steps using the side sofas. I actually got up into the bed and you can sit up OK, headroom is not an issue although the point about lack of back rests is valid.

We do like to read or watch TV in bed and I will need to bring a couple of pillows and try it.. Also, our current bed layout means we can face the TV naturally rether than having to swivel a bit......

Re: nocturnals, it's only me who wanders at night: wife sleeps like a log and has a bladder like an elephant (although she is built like a gazzelle).

I will be in the dealer's area this week and am planning to take all my paraphernalia to see if we can fit it all in and if the bed will do the job.

In all honesty, we both love our van as it really does tick all the boxes for the way we use it but......Kim's always thought of a more compact van (although she currently doesn't drive it) and I have been thinking of something larger as we will be spending even more than our current 30 odd weeks a year away.

I guess I'm looking for our (probably) last but one (or two) van as we have 10 years before the 70 issue arises and this is a good chance to get a long term, 4 season van: hence the thoughts on an A Class, albeit a smallish one.

Of course, those Hymer B Klasses are lovely.................

 

[Bolly1965]

our last van was a rear lounge - we sought one out specifically for lounging comfort, however making up the bed was a pain and the lounge was not that comfortable. Our latest van has a fixed rear bed and two decent size benches at the front, along with swivel seats. It's not necessarily the layout that makes the comfort. The Bessacar E765 has a full double size fixed bed with just a small cut out and ample seating for 6 in the front lounge, although at over six foot tall I still find 'lounging' still a bit difficult. The upside is there is bags of storage.

 

Don't rule out any layout - try each one and see how it suits your needs.

[bolero boy]

Bolly, this looks like a similar layout to our van.

Do you lounge in the cab seat with feet up on the side sofa or are you trying to squeeze in the other way with feet on the cab seat?

[Rayjsj]

I think both of the 'Bromleys' are over Six feet tall, so, both being 'Shorties' we take the comments on internal roof height and bed length with a 'pinch of salt' , What IS important (to us) is not Having to 'climb a ladder' or sleep on the roof of a garage to go to bed. Also we have no need of extra travel seats, so we find every tester 'Banging on' about a particular van not having any, especially when it is obviously meant as an extra size two berth, as a bit annoying. Also (see above) any van fitted with a 'Tech Tower' is a definate 'No go'. We also dislike ' Fixed Tables', hobs without spark ignition (this IS the 21st century !!). and it must have an oven/grill. That excludes most of the MMM models lined up for 'Vans of the Year'. So, back to the point, Yes we like to 'Feet up Lounge' , And we buy the type of van can live with.

Like to read 'testers' opinions, but they are just that 'opinions' We ALL have our likes and dislikes. Ray .

[flicka]

Like previous post, we're both "shorties" so 1/2 dinette with swivelled cab seats works for us. Sometimes we just swivel cab seats so they face each other, sometimes fully swivel drivers seat & use in conjuntion with legs on the offside inward facing seat.

But IMO this would not be so practical for much taller people, so it's important to check how it works for you before buying.

[bolero boy]

Ray, all valid points, thanks.

I will be checking out the Pilote thoroughly next week to ensure that it suits our living style and that this is not overridden by other thoughts.

I don't particularly like fixed tables, our current bed is low enough for ease of entry/exit but also to accommodate reasonable storage. We also get on fine currently with a full cooker with electric plate and electronic ignition!

I certainly won't be spending a shed load of cash on something that doesn't suit but I'm happy to check out the marketplace.

Thanks again for your views.

[HymerVan]

Our last two Vans, a Dethleffs BUS II and a Hymer Van 522 both had half dinetttes at the front and fixed beds at the back and we loved the convenience of the fixed bed. We applied the same logic as above that the most time is spent driving and sleeping and comparatively little dining/lounging IN the Van.

Incidentally even with only 110bhp the BUS was a joy to drive on account of the lowered ALKO chassis.

Nonetheless on longer trips sitting on a cab seat turned at 90deg with feet up on the other cab seat was not especially comfortable on my back. I don't have significant back problems but occasional recurring pain from the site of a fractured vertebrae in 1986.

In 2011 we took the decision to change Vans again and it seemed appropriate to downsize. We are both small (ish) and the Van which we have has a rear lounge which we love for comfortable lounging and the view to the rear. We believe little in our Van is inspired by caravan design. The boys at East Neuk are original and lateral thinkers !

Using Duvalays we can prepare two supremely comfortable single beds (running parallel with Van Sides) in two minutes and probably faster than deploying a drop-down bed. Preparing the double bed (which IS lateral) is more of a faff.

So its all a matter of compromise and individual preferences. We would have said that we would never give up a fixed bed but our present set up is so easy and so comfortable that the trade off works for us. It works for us partularly because the Duvalay is so effective and easy to use and this has the potential to affect/improve layouts which are a jigsaw puzzle. Even so I would no be in favour of a "jigsaw puzzle unless it had major other advantages.

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Like someon else said most important thing to us is a comfortable bed. We manage OK in small lounge......one across front seats, and one sideways on rear travel seats using pillows for back support.

 

Don't like drop down beds much, not enough ventilation in any I have seen.

[bolero boy]

Hi Eddie, yes the bed is probably the most important thing for us too, been spoilt with a lovely fixed bed and any change has to be as good.

Of secondly importance for us would be the lounge, not sure about sitting sideways when watching a movie as some of the small dinette type lounges can only site the TV in one position but then dont allow occupants to face it except with feet dangling due to no side seats.

Also going to have to look closely at all of our 'gear' that we take with us on long trips 'just in case?'. If I can make some inroads here there might be scope to reduce the amount of external storage space required. Again, with totally uncluttered sofa bases we are spoilt for easily accessible space, even splitting sides into his/hers ;-) . This is in addition to the underbed locker for table, chairs, footrests, wastemaster (because UK sites dont often have drive over facilities) EHU, hose etc.

Most small(er) vans dont offer decent storage (possibly other than a 'garage' or underbed in a panel van where other inside lockers are tiny) but we wont be going that small - yet B-)

Generally, Continental vans have all that lovely lounge storage taken up with inboard fresh water tank, gas locker etc forcing use of the rear garage for stuff you may want to access from inside.

Oh well, looks like I've talked myself into my own van :-D

With a couple of hours to spare on Wednesday while my replacement Truma Combi 4E is fitted, I may take the Pilote out for a drive to get the feel of an A Class and also try to fit in some of our 'gear'............

Thanks again guys for all the help

[Rayjsj]

A slight 'diversion' in praise of 'Duvalays', we used to have sleeping bags, but they get a bit 'Gamey' after a month or so away, even airing them at every oppurtunity, and not many washing m/c's accept a King size sleeping bag. Like 'Hymer' we now have Duvalays, plus two spare sets of covers, memory foam 'toppers' with duvets all together. The spare covers mean 'sweet smelling' beds (mostly). and a doddle to wash the covers, in any washing M/C. a revelation.

Back to 'Feet-Up' lounging, when looking over a van, imagine yourself+missus + dog, stuck in the van during a rainy week in the lakes. That will focus the mind on priorities. OK, I know most folk head 'toward the sun', but you WILL be confined to the van sometimes there too. and plan ahead.

Ray

[Bolly1965]

bolero boy - 2013-01-12 6:33 PM

 

Bolly, this looks like a similar layout to our van.

Do you lounge in the cab seat with feet up on the side sofa or are you trying to squeeze in the other way with feet on the cab seat?

 

The Bessacarr is similar to the Bolero - Fixed bed is on the other side and the Bessacarr has slightly longer side benches. The leather upholstery doesn't help with comfort - think I'd rather have cloth.

 

Bolero Boy, what is your resons for changing your current van?

[bolero boy]

Bolly1965 - 2013-01-13 6:56 PM

 

bolero boy - 2013-01-12 6:33 PM

 

Bolly, this looks like a similar layout to our van.

Do you lounge in the cab seat with feet up on the side sofa or are you trying to squeeze in the other way with feet on the cab seat?

 

The Bessacarr is similar to the Bolero - Fixed bed is on the other side and the Bessacarr has slightly longer side benches. The leather upholstery doesn't help with comfort - think I'd rather have cloth.

 

Bolero Boy, what is your resons for changing your current van?

bolly, just keeping abreast of the marketplace but also looking for a double floor van as we will be spending even more than our current 30 or so weeks away each year so wanted something draught free.

This got me looking at a classes but my wife doesn't want us to go bigger than our existing 7 metres hence the look at the 640lr pilote.

I really like the bolero 722fb with Alde heating but its close to 8 metres yes, I know it doesn't have a double floor.

[Bolly1965]

The Bessacar has a similar layout. Not sure about the new one but ours has a double floor giving much more storage space. They are however quite long. Have to say I didn't have the problems I expected with the longer van.

 

A test drive is a must. I guess different vans handle and drive differently

[Rayjsj]

I recently changed from a 6.1 metre Autocruise with a low Alko chassis (turning circle 'London Bus') to a 7.6 metre Autotrail with a Fiat heavy chassis, with large overhang. The handling and manouvering for such a large vehicle is far easier than the shorter Autocruise. I just have to be VERY aware that the 'Overhang' swings wide. Now fitted reversing sensors (6) as well as the standard camera. Belt and Braces.

Fixed twin rear beds plus good 'feet up' lounge at front. And all of our other 'requirements' so, so far Content. Ray

[bolero boy]

Thanks Ray.

Although my wife (so far) does not drive the MH she has 'suggested >:-) ' that any new van does not exceed our current 7.04m.

I am taking all (most of) my gear to try and fit it in a Pilote G640LR to see if these 'one box, drop down A class bed' models can hack it storage wise.

Failing that, and I think it will fail, I shall be looking at a G690LGR or Rapido 983 DF both garage versions with double floors and both 6.99 mtrs long.