'White flight'

[CliveH]

RogerC - 2013-02-22 4:35 PM

CliveH - 2013-02-22 3:57 PM

RogerC - 2013-02-22 3:14 PM 

CliveH - 2013-02-21 11:17 AM Similar happened in Cornwall with the Cornish Fishermen. They seemed to think they had a God given right to fish the seas and expected subsidies to do so because it was traditional that they did this.

 

I wasn't going to get into this one but the above is a load of insulting irritating rubbish.  Yet another example of 'hearsay' crap!!  If you are going to insult please try to get your facts straight.

Cornish fishermen, of whom my Grandfather and brother were but two were doing OK thank you.....look at the history of Looe and Newlyn fish markets,  until the EU stuck it's oar in...no pun intended.....with it's quotas.  Add to that the over fishing of 'our' traditional boundaries by French and Spanish fleets with 'factory' ships that the UK traditionally never used and you get to the mess that the UK fishing fleet found itself in.  My brother got out of fishing some years back because he was fed up with throwing back tons of perfectly good fish simply because EU rules said he couldn't land them.......they were almost all dead because their swim bladders had burst.  It got so bad that whereas in years past he could land a catch from which he could make a living he was throwing back those which in years gone by could/would have been landed and sold.  Perfectly good edible fish dumped 'dead' because the EU said 'Non'.  Therefore because of the EU involvement forcing the dumping of thousands of tons of perfectly good fish, the overfishing of 'our' fishing grounds by French and Spanish ships our fishermen have been almost forced out of business.  There are a few hardy ones remaining but the UK fishing fleet in general is a mere shadow of what it used to be.

 

As far as subsidies are concerned all the fishermen wanted was to make a living...to fish....not to throw back tons of dead fish....to get on with earning their living.

 

European fishing quotas, stock issues and international competition have caused a continued decline in Cornish fishing, affecting towns like Newlyn enormously through reduced landing quotas, increased red tape and the ultimately depressing consequence: boat decommissioning and breaking. The cost of obtaining a 'Quota' licence is seriously inhibiting fishing in Cornwall and other traditional UK ports.

 

There was no thought of 'God given rights' just the desire to make a living, to land and sell perfectly good fish, not to dump tons of dead fish because it didn't meet 'the rules' and to put good fresh fish into the market place as had been done for generations without the need for 'quotas' which have been proved to have been a disaster for fish stocks.  In essence the bureaucrats who know feck all about fishing have messed up our fisheries to the detriment of not only the fishermen but to all of us.

 

The government's own figures, of the 186 million fish caught in UK waters last year, 117 million of them were thrown away dead as waste.

 

Had these been landed and sold the market would level itself out and fishermen could make a living.  Instead the EU interfered and paid subsidies instead.  Despite making up more than three quarters of the British fishing fleet, small-scale fishermen have access to only four per cent of the UK quota, with the rest being controlled by a handful of producers organisations.....the 'big boys'.

 So before you start insulting get your facts straight!!

There was no insult intended - and I vividly remember that Cornish Fishermen were interviewed and they main point they made was that there work was a family tradition and they felt they had a "right"to continue as their fathers and fathers fathers had done so. Even if the sea was being overfished.The example was given of how Cornish Fishermen had overfished Pilchards such that there were non left to catch by circa 1920.I would agree that the EU fishing quotas are idiotic. But that has recently changed re the rules on discarding caught fishBut don't come at me Roger with nothing but inaccurate righteous indignation and an accusation of insult when non at all existed.We need some sort of quota system re fishing Roger - unless of course you are happy to see fish stocks decline away to nothing as did Pilchards.

 

The only thing I see as inaccurate here is what you have written.  The Cornish fishermen simply wanted to be able to fish as they and their forefathers had done which was in a 'sustainable' manner.  Before the stupid EU decided on quotas and size limits along with the advent of factory ships fishing was done in what is now understood to be eco friendly.....ie...not overfished.

 

Point in blue above....strange that.  If this was the case how come I worked with my Grandmother in a 'pilchard canning factory' in Looe processing the catch brought in by Looe and other local fishermen up until it closed in the 60's?. Newlyn was still processing 'Cornish caught pilchards' up until 2005.   Yet another thing you got wrong.

 

Point in red:......'God given right' you wrote.  This term in my experience is normally used to in a derogatory manner or as an insult to someone and the way you used it it certainly seemed that is what you intended. 

As for 'righteous indignation'......well I'll agree to righteous......in all fairness I got it 'right' you didn't.  Indignant?.....Definition:  expressing strong displeasure at something considered unjust, offensive, insulting.  Yes I suppose I am.  After all you got it totally wrong and IMO unjustly insulted my forefathers and brother.....ergo I took offence...so too damn right I was.

 

Like I said before you really do need to get your facts straight before you put finger to key!! 

Roger :- “Pilchards! Whose bodies yield the fragrant oil and make the London lamps at midnight smile!” Peter Pindar 1783 (Pen name of John Wolcot, 1738-1819, who achieved fame in the 1780s for his comic and satirical verse).Cornwall once relied upon the sea for nearly everything: food, transport, trade, defence and contact with the outside world. Fishing was always a vital part of the Cornish way of life and in the 18th and 19th Century, pilchard fishing was a major industry. Throughout the summer months large shoals of pilchards were caught off the Cornish coast; then they were taken to pilchard cellars for processing.Salt (from France and Portugal) was spread on the floor of the cellar, then fish and more salt were added in layers until a ‘bulk’ about 4ft in height was formed. Over 30 to 40 days the blood and oil seeped away to be collected and sold. After this was done the bulks were ‘broken’, washed in troughs of seawater and placed in circular layers in ‘hogsheads’ (straight sided barrels packed with 3,000 pilchards and designed to leak). A ‘buckler’ or lid was then placed on the barrel and a 13ft pole, embedded in a wall at one end and with a heavy weight attached to the other was then pressed down onto the lid. The pilchards were squeezed flat and oil drained out; producing 18 to 45 litres from each barrel. The oil was mostly sold as lamp oil, which covered all costs of production. The fish was purchased almost exclusively by Italian Catholics for religious fasting. The sale of this was all profit.It was in buildings such as these in this photograph of St Ives in 1871, that the work was carried out. The complete cellar was usually an open courtyard surrounded on three sides by low buildings with overhanging roofs. The hogsheads stood over a gutter in the floor leading to the oil pit; holes in the wall would provide the support for the poles and the floor was cobbled so the oil and water would flow in channels.By the end of the 19th Century ‘bulk curing’ had been replaced by the use of brine tanks and the pole presses by more efficient screw presses. In the 1920s most cellars had disappeared. The few that survive today have been converted into houses, restaurants and shops. Pilchard fishing declined from the mid-20th Century, although small quantities of pilchards are still caught in Cornish waters today.Our Cornish Quayside gallery brings to life the story of fishing around Cornwall and is a permanent exhibition on the ground floor of the museum..................................And overfishing of Pilchards was one of the reasons for the decline.If you want real examples of how overfishing has decimated Fish Stocks then simply google it. If you want to be insulted by anything I have written - I cannot stop you - so please carry on - knock yourself out. Nothing I said is fabricated or untrue - i stand by it all.This from Wiki - not a brilliant source I grant you - but the facts are bourn out elswhere and the references easily sourced:-"Fishing in Cornwall has traditionally been one of the main elements of the economy. Pilchard fishing and processing was a thriving industry in Cornwall from around 1750 to around 1880, after which it went into an almost terminal decline. During the 20th century the varieties of fish taken became much more diverse and crustaceans such as crab and lobster are now significant. Much of the catch is exported to France due to the higher prices obtainable there. Though fishing has been significantly damaged by overfishing, (the Southwest Handline Fishermen's Association has started to revive the fishing industry).[1] However, as of 2007, stocks are improving"Like I say - I have never knowingly sought to deceive anyone ever - on here or elsewhere.The Bullshirt posted on here by some on this and related subject makes me despair of their intelligence, education and experience. Thank the Lord that you are a minority that has to post such Bullshirt on a Forum such as this because no other outlet is available to you, such are your extreme views.Because I disagree with him 1 foot says I must be a Muslim - LAUGHABLE!!Roger talks total indigent verbal irrelevance in the face of overwhelming evidence that the fishing grounds of the UK have been overfished and yet he leaps to the defence of Cornish Fishermen saying he is insulted by my critiscism of them for saying I think they were wrong to think they had a "God Given Right" to carry on fishing regardless. Roger if the Fishermen did not reduce the fish stocks to such a level that the crazy quota system had to be introduced - who did then? Perhaps it was the Starship Roger C - beaming up the fish for a galactic jaunt and not the poor fishermen of England (and Cornwall (lol) ) at all!

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

You really sound like a man who positively revels in the demise and / or destruction of a British way of life, perhaps you are Muslim.

[CliveH]

No I am Christian

 

Again how typical that you should chose to catagorise me as something you dislike in order to justify your position.

 

I will let you look up the definition of people who do that

 

I suggest it will be an education for you.

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

CliveH - 2013-02-22 4:52 PM

 

No I am Christian

 

Again how typical that you should chose to catagorise me as something you dislike in order to justify your position.

 

I will let you look up the definition of people who do that

 

I suggest it will be an education for you.

 

 

Obviously you are from your posts describing me in non Christian terms you hypocrite, love your neighbour, remember that one. eh oh hang on that was a sitcom ;-)

 

 

[Tracker]

For those with better memories it was 'Love thy neighbour'!

[CliveH]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-22 4:56 PM

 

CliveH - 2013-02-22 4:52 PM

 

No I am Christian

 

Again how typical that you should chose to catagorise me as something you dislike in order to justify your position.

 

I will let you look up the definition of people who do that

 

I suggest it will be an education for you.

 

 

Obviously you are from your posts describing me in non Christian terms you hypocrite, love your neighbour, remember that one. eh oh hang on that was a sitcom ;-)

 

 

Nothing hypocritical for a christian to tell it as it is.

 

As for loving thy neighbour - that really is rich coming from you 1 foot!

 

Seriously mate - are you sure you are not a character from a comedy sketch? You could not make that last bit up! (lol) (lol) (lol)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

CliveH - 2013-02-22 5:16 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-22 4:56 PM

 

CliveH - 2013-02-22 4:52 PM

 

No I am Christian

 

Again how typical that you should chose to catagorise me as something you dislike in order to justify your position.

 

I will let you look up the definition of people who do that

 

I suggest it will be an education for you.

 

 

Obviously you are from your posts describing me in non Christian terms you hypocrite, love your neighbour, remember that one. eh oh hang on that was a sitcom ;-)

 

 

Nothing hypocritical for a christian to tell it as it is.

 

As for loving thy neighbour - that really is rich coming from you 1 foot!

 

Seriously mate - are you sure you are not a character from a comedy sketch? You could not make that last bit up! (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

Your not up to speed I have nothing against the afro caribean community whatsoever , and that series was ground breaking comedy on both sides. The problem I have is with Islam and it's followers, and to that end pose this final question to you and John47, although I don't expect any reasonable response other than the tired old ones. But give it a go if your bored eh.

 

It’s no use in pretending that Islam is just another religion - which always seems to be the assumption of those preferring not to look too closely.

 

In fact, Islam is dreadfully unique - and it should be OK to say so.

 

What other religion's most devoted members videotape themselves cutting people's throats while screaming praises to their god?

What other faith has tens of thousands of terrorists across the globe united by an explicit commitment to advance the cause of their religion by pursuing horrific mass murder and mutilation?

 

What other religion has clerics lauded as 'moderates', 'bridge-builders', and advocates of 'peace and tolerance' who, at best cannot even bring themselves to condemn suicide bombers or denounce Islamist terror organizations, or at worst actually support terrorism, wife-beating, female genital mutilation and justify the killing of apostates and homosexuals?

 

What other religion kills innocent people over cartoons and teddy bears, and murders humanitarian workers of other faiths who are merely trying to help them?

 

What other religion actually celebrated the 9/11 attacks, described the carnage as "one of the miracles of the Quran" and proclaimed it to be "God's work against oppressors"?

 

What other religions followers have carried out 20428 terrorist attacks since 9 / 11

 

Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.

 

[RogerC]

CliveH - 2013-02-22 4:45 PM

RogerC - 2013-02-22 4:35 PM

CliveH - 2013-02-22 3:57 PM

RogerC - 2013-02-22 3:14 PM 

CliveH - 2013-02-21 11:17 AM Similar happened in Cornwall with the Cornish Fishermen. They seemed to think they had a God given right to fish the seas and expected subsidies to do so because it was traditional that they did this.

 

I wasn't going to get into this one but the above is a load of insulting irritating rubbish.  Yet another example of 'hearsay' crap!!  If you are going to insult please try to get your facts straight.

Cornish fishermen, of whom my Grandfather and brother were but two were doing OK thank you.....look at the history of Looe and Newlyn fish markets,  until the EU stuck it's oar in...no pun intended.....with it's quotas.  Add to that the over fishing of 'our' traditional boundaries by French and Spanish fleets with 'factory' ships that the UK traditionally never used and you get to the mess that the UK fishing fleet found itself in.  My brother got out of fishing some years back because he was fed up with throwing back tons of perfectly good fish simply because EU rules said he couldn't land them.......they were almost all dead because their swim bladders had burst.  It got so bad that whereas in years past he could land a catch from which he could make a living he was throwing back those which in years gone by could/would have been landed and sold.  Perfectly good edible fish dumped 'dead' because the EU said 'Non'.  Therefore because of the EU involvement forcing the dumping of thousands of tons of perfectly good fish, the overfishing of 'our' fishing grounds by French and Spanish ships our fishermen have been almost forced out of business.  There are a few hardy ones remaining but the UK fishing fleet in general is a mere shadow of what it used to be.

 

As far as subsidies are concerned all the fishermen wanted was to make a living...to fish....not to throw back tons of dead fish....to get on with earning their living.

 

European fishing quotas, stock issues and international competition have caused a continued decline in Cornish fishing, affecting towns like Newlyn enormously through reduced landing quotas, increased red tape and the ultimately depressing consequence: boat decommissioning and breaking. The cost of obtaining a 'Quota' licence is seriously inhibiting fishing in Cornwall and other traditional UK ports.

 

There was no thought of 'God given rights' just the desire to make a living, to land and sell perfectly good fish, not to dump tons of dead fish because it didn't meet 'the rules' and to put good fresh fish into the market place as had been done for generations without the need for 'quotas' which have been proved to have been a disaster for fish stocks.  In essence the bureaucrats who know feck all about fishing have messed up our fisheries to the detriment of not only the fishermen but to all of us.

 

The government's own figures, of the 186 million fish caught in UK waters last year, 117 million of them were thrown away dead as waste.

 

Had these been landed and sold the market would level itself out and fishermen could make a living.  Instead the EU interfered and paid subsidies instead.  Despite making up more than three quarters of the British fishing fleet, small-scale fishermen have access to only four per cent of the UK quota, with the rest being controlled by a handful of producers organisations.....the 'big boys'.

 So before you start insulting get your facts straight!!

There was no insult intended - and I vividly remember that Cornish Fishermen were interviewed and they main point they made was that there work was a family tradition and they felt they had a "right"to continue as their fathers and fathers fathers had done so. Even if the sea was being overfished.The example was given of how Cornish Fishermen had overfished Pilchards such that there were non left to catch by circa 1920.I would agree that the EU fishing quotas are idiotic. But that has recently changed re the rules on discarding caught fishBut don't come at me Roger with nothing but inaccurate righteous indignation and an accusation of insult when non at all existed.We need some sort of quota system re fishing Roger - unless of course you are happy to see fish stocks decline away to nothing as did Pilchards.

 

The only thing I see as inaccurate here is what you have written.  The Cornish fishermen simply wanted to be able to fish as they and their forefathers had done which was in a 'sustainable' manner.  Before the stupid EU decided on quotas and size limits along with the advent of factory ships fishing was done in what is now understood to be eco friendly.....ie...not overfished.

 

Point in blue above....strange that.  If this was the case how come I worked with my Grandmother in a 'pilchard canning factory' in Looe processing the catch brought in by Looe and other local fishermen up until it closed in the 60's?. Newlyn was still processing 'Cornish caught pilchards' up until 2005.   Yet another thing you got wrong.

 

Point in red:......'God given right' you wrote.  This term in my experience is normally used to in a derogatory manner or as an insult to someone and the way you used it it certainly seemed that is what you intended. 

As for 'righteous indignation'......well I'll agree to righteous......in all fairness I got it 'right' you didn't.  Indignant?.....Definition:  expressing strong displeasure at something considered unjust, offensive, insulting.  Yes I suppose I am.  After all you got it totally wrong and IMO unjustly insulted my forefathers and brother.....ergo I took offence...so too damn right I was.

 

Like I said before you really do need to get your facts straight before you put finger to key!! 

Roger :- “Pilchards! Whose bodies yield the fragrant oil and make the London lamps at midnight smile!” Peter Pindar 1783 (Pen name of John Wolcot, 1738-1819, who achieved fame in the 1780s for his comic and satirical verse).Cornwall once relied upon the sea for nearly everything: food, transport, trade, defence and contact with the outside world. Fishing was always a vital part of the Cornish way of life and in the 18th and 19th Century, pilchard fishing was a major industry. Throughout the summer months large shoals of pilchards were caught off the Cornish coast; then they were taken to pilchard cellars for processing.Salt (from France and Portugal) was spread on the floor of the cellar, then fish and more salt were added in layers until a ‘bulk’ about 4ft in height was formed. Over 30 to 40 days the blood and oil seeped away to be collected and sold. After this was done the bulks were ‘broken’, washed in troughs of seawater and placed in circular layers in ‘hogsheads’ (straight sided barrels packed with 3,000 pilchards and designed to leak). A ‘buckler’ or lid was then placed on the barrel and a 13ft pole, embedded in a wall at one end and with a heavy weight attached to the other was then pressed down onto the lid. The pilchards were squeezed flat and oil drained out; producing 18 to 45 litres from each barrel. The oil was mostly sold as lamp oil, which covered all costs of production. The fish was purchased almost exclusively by Italian Catholics for religious fasting. The sale of this was all profit.It was in buildings such as these in this photograph of St Ives in 1871, that the work was carried out. The complete cellar was usually an open courtyard surrounded on three sides by low buildings with overhanging roofs. The hogsheads stood over a gutter in the floor leading to the oil pit; holes in the wall would provide the support for the poles and the floor was cobbled so the oil and water would flow in channels.By the end of the 19th Century ‘bulk curing’ had been replaced by the use of brine tanks and the pole presses by more efficient screw presses. In the 1920s most cellars had disappeared. The few that survive today have been converted into houses, restaurants and shops. Pilchard fishing declined from the mid-20th Century, although small quantities of pilchards are still caught in Cornish waters today.Our Cornish Quayside gallery brings to life the story of fishing around Cornwall and is a permanent exhibition on the ground floor of the museum..................................And overfishing of Pilchards was one of the reasons for the decline.If you want real examples of how overfishing has decimated Fish Stocks then simply google it. If you want to be insulted by anything I have written - I cannot stop you - so please carry on - knock yourself out. Nothing I said is fabricated or untrue - i stand by it all.This from Wiki - not a brilliant source I grant you - but the facts are bourn out elswhere and the references easily sourced:-"Fishing in Cornwall has traditionally been one of the main elements of the economy. Pilchard fishing and processing was a thriving industry in Cornwall from around 1750 to around 1880, after which it went into an almost terminal decline. During the 20th century the varieties of fish taken became much more diverse and crustaceans such as crab and lobster are now significant. Much of the catch is exported to France due to the higher prices obtainable there. Though fishing has been significantly damaged by overfishing, (the Southwest Handline Fishermen's Association has started to revive the fishing industry).[1] However, as of 2007, stocks are improving"Like I say - I have never knowingly sought to deceive anyone ever - on here or elsewhere.The Bullshirt posted on here by some on this and related subject makes me despair of their intelligence, education and experience. Thank the Lord that you are a minority that has to post such Bullshirt on a Forum such as this because no other outlet is available to you, such are your extreme views.Because I disagree with him 1 foot says I must be a Muslim - LAUGHABLE!!Roger talks total indigent verbal irrelevance in the face of overwhelming evidence that the fishing grounds of the UK have been overfished and yet he leaps to the defence of Cornish Fishermen saying he is insulted by my critiscism of them for saying I think they were wrong to think they had a "God Given Right" to carry on fishing regardless. Roger if the Fishermen did not reduce the fish stocks to such a level that the crazy quota system had to be introduced - who did then? Perhaps it was the Starship Roger C - beaming up the fish for a galactic jaunt and not the poor fishermen of England (and Cornwall (lol) ) at all!

 

Clive...you say I talk indigent verbal irrelevances?    You are taking a blinkered view on this by going way way back in history.  I have merely pointed out that as recently as the 1960's the industry was vibrant.  I know I saw it and worked there.  You are merely regurgitating someone else's historical commentary. Cornish and indeed almost all of the UK 'artisan fishermen' did not overfish.  Their boats simply did not have the capacity to do so.  It was the advent of factory ships and stupid quotas that brought this about.

 

With your regurgitation of other peoples writings on a subject you personally obviously know nothing about I suspect the closest you ever got to a fishing boat is a packet of fish fingers!!!!

 

 

As for insults being taken......if you can't understand that what you wrote is/was insulting I feel it is only a matter of time, should you chose to use terms such as these to someones face you might not like the 'physical' response you get.  And as far as the 'Starship' comment goes I am minded to think you are living on another planet.

 

[donna miller]

2 of the characters have been in Eastenders (1 still is).

 

The white guy was a bit of a pilchard as well. (That ties in with the cornish fisherman angle by the way :D )

[CliveH]

No wrong again Roger

 

I regularly fish on boats out of Weymouth and Mudeford.

 

I fished regularly from Boats when I lived in Worthing and Hastings before that.

 

I know the seas have been overfished. The evidence is clear.

 

Yes the quota system is stupid - I have said that for years - but you keep missing the point!

 

We only had the quota system forced upon us BECAUSE of overfishing. The reference to Starships roger was a humerous suggestion that who else could possibly be guilty of decimating fish stocks other than fishermen.

 

And yes - I do think i live on another planet to the one you are on - because i l lot of what you and i foot say is total alien to me and the world I inhabit.

 

Again how typical of you to jump to the conclusion that because I dare to disagree with you my knowledge of Fish and Fishing extends only to a pack of fish fingers.

 

Does being so laughably arrogant come easily to you or do you have to practice?

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

CliveH - 2013-02-22 5:29 PM

 

No wrong again Roger

 

I regularly fish on boats out of Weymouth and Mudeford.

 

I fished regularly from Boats when I lived in Worthing and Hastings before that.

 

I know the seas have been overfished. The evidence is clear.

 

Yes the quota system is stupid - I have said that for years - but you keep missing the point!

 

We only had the quota system forced upon us BECAUSE of overfishing.

 

Again how typical of you to jump to the conclusion that because I dare to disagree with you my knowledge of Fish and Fishing extends only to a pack of fish fingers.

 

Does being so laughably arrogant come easily to you or do you have to practice?

 

 

I'll tell you what is more than laughably arrogant that your obviously knee deep in Muslims and Mosques and terror suspects in your neck of the woods so are not affected at all by the issue, unlike me and my extended family living in the thick of it before we at least got out,

I was right all along, your are a pillock. It's so easy to have an opinion when your not affected by the issues as we were >:-)

[CliveH]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-22 5:22 PM

 

CliveH - 2013-02-22 5:16 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-22 4:56 PM

 

CliveH - 2013-02-22 4:52 PM

 

No I am Christian

 

Again how typical that you should chose to catagorise me as something you dislike in order to justify your position.

 

I will let you look up the definition of people who do that

 

I suggest it will be an education for you.

 

 

Obviously you are from your posts describing me in non Christian terms you hypocrite, love your neighbour, remember that one. eh oh hang on that was a sitcom ;-)

 

 

Nothing hypocritical for a christian to tell it as it is.

 

As for loving thy neighbour - that really is rich coming from you 1 foot!

 

Seriously mate - are you sure you are not a character from a comedy sketch? You could not make that last bit up! (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

Your not up to speed I have nothing against the afro caribean community whatsoever , and that series was ground breaking comedy on both sides. The problem I have is with Islam and it's followers, and to that end pose this final question to you and John47, although I don't expect any reasonable response other than the tired old ones. But give it a go if your bored eh.

 

It’s no use in pretending that Islam is just another religion - which always seems to be the assumption of those preferring not to look too closely.

 

In fact, Islam is dreadfully unique - and it should be OK to say so.

 

What other religion's most devoted members videotape themselves cutting people's throats while screaming praises to their god?

What other faith has tens of thousands of terrorists across the globe united by an explicit commitment to advance the cause of their religion by pursuing horrific mass murder and mutilation?

 

What other religion has clerics lauded as 'moderates', 'bridge-builders', and advocates of 'peace and tolerance' who, at best cannot even bring themselves to condemn suicide bombers or denounce Islamist terror organizations, or at worst actually support terrorism, wife-beating, female genital mutilation and justify the killing of apostates and homosexuals?

 

What other religion kills innocent people over cartoons and teddy bears, and murders humanitarian workers of other faiths who are merely trying to help them?

 

What other religion actually celebrated the 9/11 attacks, described the carnage as "one of the miracles of the Quran" and proclaimed it to be "God's work against oppressors"?

 

What other religions followers have carried out 20428 terrorist attacks since 9 / 11

 

Answers on the back of a postage stamp please.

 

Funnily enough the answer to this could be written on the back of a postage stamp because the answer is quite simple - It is extremists rather than the average Muslim that is guilty of those attacks.

 

As for what religion is guilty of the more horrendous atrocities - then that does take up a bit more room.

 

What about we British tying Muslims to the mouths of cannons then firing them? We did that in India for a pastime it seems. Now that is a way to make friends and influence people!

 

Then we had the atrocity at Amritsar - which Winston Churchill described as "monstrous" Cameron was there just the other day and effectively apologised.

 

If you want atrocities - have a read of "The Railway Man" - a telling account of how brutal the japanese were to westerners. They did that because the saw their religion as being better than anyone elses and so this gave them the justification to do as they did.

 

Which is how we at the time justified the atrocities in India.

 

And do not forget that t was we British that invented the Concentration Camp. We used it in South Africa against the Boers.

 

No doubt about it we are in a war against Islamic extremists and I have no issue with fighting that war hard and with all the means at our disposal - no issue from me there at all.

 

But to tar all Muslims with the same brush is like saying all catholics support the IRA.

 

Or that all Sri Lankans are Tamil Tigers

 

Or that everyone from the Basque region supports ETA.

 

It is a stupid notion

[RogerC]

CliveH - 2013-02-22 5:29 PMNo wrong again RogerI regularly fish on boats out of Weymouth and Mudeford.I fished regularly from Boats when I lived in Worthing and Hastings before that.I know the seas have been overfished. The evidence is clear.Yes the quota system is stupid - I have said that for years - but you keep missing the point!We only had the quota system forced upon us BECAUSE of overfishing. The reference to Starships roger was a humerous suggestion that who else could possibly be guilty of decimating fish stocks other than fishermen. And yes - I do think i live on another planet to the one you are on - because i l lot of what you and i foot say is total alien to me and the world I inhabit.Again how typical of you to jump to the conclusion that because I dare to disagree with you my knowledge of Fish and Fishing extends only to a pack of fish fingers.Does being so laughably arrogant come easily to you or do you have to practice?

 

Overfishing was NOT caused by artisan fishermen such as those in Cornwall or anywhere else.....it was caused by the introduction of 'factory ships' and the quotas exacerbated this by forcing the 'all' fishermen to throw back perfectly good marketable fish because it was a species the fishermen were/are not allowed to land.

 

I must obviously bow to your superior personal knowledge seeing as you frequent those hallowed centres of the fishing industry.....your 'visitors' insight is obviously much better informed than mine.  I can only claim to have 'lived' through some of what we 'vigorously' discuss and have a family history actually involved in the industry.  

 

As for arrogance... I suppose I do need to practice more unlike you who seems to have perfected the art.

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Sorry, replying to CliveH the fisherman who knows it all !

 

No my friend the stupid notion that you don't get is they all have one thing in common, not their race, not their politics, but the their religion which has the ultimate end game of an Islamic world, no more no less. They are the Jehova witnesses of their type, just with a bomb or two and Allah on their side to convert or condemn the Kuffars, you'll simply never get it I'm afraid, just stick in delightful Mudeford ddoing your fishing, I knew it well years ago in my youth, like my own home City of Brum I loved before it went pear shaped with alien incomers to change it all.

[CliveH]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-22 5:37 PM

 

CliveH - 2013-02-22 5:29 PM

 

No wrong again Roger

 

I regularly fish on boats out of Weymouth and Mudeford.

 

I fished regularly from Boats when I lived in Worthing and Hastings before that.

 

I know the seas have been overfished. The evidence is clear.

 

Yes the quota system is stupid - I have said that for years - but you keep missing the point!

 

We only had the quota system forced upon us BECAUSE of overfishing.

 

Again how typical of you to jump to the conclusion that because I dare to disagree with you my knowledge of Fish and Fishing extends only to a pack of fish fingers.

 

Does being so laughably arrogant come easily to you or do you have to practice?

 

 

I'll tell you what is more than laughably arrogant that your obviously knee deep in Muslims and Mosques and terror suspects in your neck of the woods so are not affected at all by the issue, unlike me and my extended family living in the thick of it before we at least got out,

I was right all along, your are a pillock. It's so easy to have an opinion when your not affected by the issues as we were >:-)

 

There you go jumping to conclusions again. You have obviously forgotten that I was born in Maidenhead and still have family there. Lots of other nationalities there - as I said

 

You can call me all the names under the sum 1 foot - it won't change a thing - your views will still be as biggoted and as full as bile as ever - and I will still look back on my life where I lived and worked with Muslims and found that overall they were just the same as the rest of us.

 

They even worried about the few extremist idiots in their midst in the same way as I have concerns about you.

 

Now - our local Indian restaurant beckons - Ali will have my pint of Cobra and no doubt a complimentary Popadom waiting for me (they are from Bangladesh really - but hey!! - I go with the flow)

 

A Dhansak tonight I think.

 

Did you know that a Massala dish is reckoned to be more traditional in the UK know than Roast Beef?

 

Strange that.

 

I really do think we have done this to death now - time to call it a day I would think I am not going to change my views nor you yours either.

 

I suggest we agree to differ.

 

 

 

 

[CliveH]

RogerC - 2013-02-22 5:58 PM

CliveH - 2013-02-22 5:29 PMNo wrong again RogerI regularly fish on boats out of Weymouth and Mudeford.I fished regularly from Boats when I lived in Worthing and Hastings before that.I know the seas have been overfished. The evidence is clear.Yes the quota system is stupid - I have said that for years - but you keep missing the point!We only had the quota system forced upon us BECAUSE of overfishing. The reference to Starships roger was a humerous suggestion that who else could possibly be guilty of decimating fish stocks other than fishermen. And yes - I do think i live on another planet to the one you are on - because i l lot of what you and i foot say is total alien to me and the world I inhabit.Again how typical of you to jump to the conclusion that because I dare to disagree with you my knowledge of Fish and Fishing extends only to a pack of fish fingers.Does being so laughably arrogant come easily to you or do you have to practice?

 

Overfishing was NOT caused by artisan fishermen such as those in Cornwall or anywhere else.....it was caused by the introduction of 'factory ships' and the quotas exacerbated this by forcing the 'all' fishermen to throw back perfectly good marketable fish because it was a species the fishermen were/are not allowed to land.

 

I must obviously bow to your superior personal knowledge seeing as you frequent those hallowed centres of the fishing industry.....your 'visitors' insight is obviously much better informed than mine.  I can only claim to have 'lived' through some of what we 'vigorously' discuss and have a family history actually involved in the industry.  

 

As for arrogance... I suppose I do need to practice more unlike you who seems to have perfected the art.

The fishermen of Cornwall according to you were not to blame - but their Trawlers were as big as and equiped the same as others in the UK.The "artisan" fishermen you cite may well not be to blame - but the ones I saw were hardly fishing for a hobby.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Good for you mate, just ponder that they may just cough up a load of gob to give it some extra thickness eh especially if they dislike Kuffars as most of them see us, but are happy to take your cash

 

you'll have that thought as you take your first mouthful now, hope I haven't put you off though, But like they say what you don't know don't hurt you ;-)

[donna miller]

Looks like you have gained the honour of 'Target of the day' Clive. :-S

 

 

Never mind, take one of these and let it all wash over you. No one can rightfully argue that the snippets you posted about "Us British" are anything but fact, but it will be interesting to see how your words are to be "interpreted and twisted"

[CliveH]

donna miller - 2013-02-22 6:13 PM

 

Looks like you have gained the honour of 'Target of the day' Clive. :-S

 

 

Never mind, take one of these and let it all wash over you. No one can rightfully argue that the snippets you posted about "Us British" are anything but fact, but it will be interesting to see how your words are to be "interpreted and twisted"

 

 

Thank you for those kind words.

 

The "interpretation and twisting" is what I find fascinating by such people as 1 foot and to a degree Roger.

 

Not one of my posts could possible be construed as saying the things they infer. But off they go - banging away on the keyboard getting ever more wound up that others do not agree with them (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

Still my thesis is all the better for it!!

 

Now I do have to go - My Curry awaits - gob and all (lol) (lol)

 

Seriously - you could not make this lot up!!!

 

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

CliveH - 2013-02-22 6:20 PM

 

donna miller - 2013-02-22 6:13 PM

 

Looks like you have gained the honour of 'Target of the day' Clive. :-S

 

 

Never mind, take one of these and let it all wash over you. No one can rightfully argue that the snippets you posted about "Us British" are anything but fact, but it will be interesting to see how your words are to be "interpreted and twisted"

 

 

Thank you for those kind words.

 

The "interpretation and twisting" is what I find fascinating by such people as 1 foot and to a degree Roger.

 

Not one of my posts could possible be construed as saying the things they infer. But off they go - banging away on the keyboard getting ever more wound up that others do not agree with them (lol) (lol) (lol)

 

Still my thesis is all the better for it!!

 

Now I do have to go - My Curry awaits - gob and all (lol) (lol)

 

Seriously - you could not make this lot up!!!

 

 

Your in the same club pal, so I'm not sure where that leaves you, :D

[antony1969]

CliveH - 2013-02-22 3:30 PM

 

antony1969 - 2013-02-22 1:56 PM

 

CliveH - 2013-02-22 12:25 PM

 

But the Irish did reject Sinn Fein during the “Troubles” Anthony - in Eire Sinn Fein polled less than 2% of the vote and had no Seats in the Irish Parliament during the “Troubles”.

 

Now that Sinn Fein has rejected violence, in the 2011 election it gained 9.9% of the vote and this gave them 14 seats out of a total of 166.

 

Quite a success for tolerance I would suggest and the fact that when violence was part of Sinn Fein’s agenda over 98% of Irish voters REJECTED them. This is at odds with your view that a significant proportion of the Irish electorate supported them.

 

Their support came ONLY after violence was rejected by Sinn Fein.

 

The Irish are not thick - never have been - stereotypes again *-)

 

The Irish voted for what they wanted - that is all.

 

[/quote

 

 

Clive don't start on the branding the Irish thick lark , my background is Irish so im hardly likely to slag my own family off am I ? The comment was in jest .

Your figures differ to mine on Sinn Fein support . One major point would be hunger striker and terrorist Bobby Sands been elected as MP for Fermanagh at the height of the troubles in 1981 . Who voted him in ? Or wasn't it explained to the Irish who and what he was ?

 

 

 

Are you not getting a bit confused with Ireland and Northern Ireland Anthony?

 

Bobby Sands was elected as a Westminster MP with a seat in NI which is part of the UK.

 

The figures I quoted are for the situation in Ireland (Eire) where despite what Bobby Sands' supporters in Northern Ireland wanted - i.e. a "United Ireland" - the majority in Eire rejected the violence of the IRA and its then political wing, Sinn Fein and apart from less than 2% of the population, rejected them out of hand.

 

Now that Sinn Fein has rejected violence - they are doing far better in the elections - tho' they are still a minority party in that country.

 

Not confused at all Clive , is it not obvious I meant Northern Ireland .

[cerro]

It’s like being in the play ground and listening to kids all checking Google to outdo each other I have never heard as many know alls in my life for god’s sake get a life.

I must add I was absolutely disgusted with the comments about the two young lad’s burn alive if that’s what the mentality is; of people on here thank god I decided to leave the post. 1 foot do what I did apologise and say it’s your fault and you are sorry and they are all right. Weather its true or not they can’t go, It stops the post dead in its tracks.

Don’t bother to slag me off I won’t be answering

 

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

cerro - 2013-02-22 7:57 PM

 

It’s like being in the play ground and listening to kids all checking Google to outdo each other I have never heard as many know alls in my life for god’s sake get a life.

I must add I was absolutely disgusted with the comments about the two young lad’s burn alive if that’s what the mentality is; of people on here thank god I decided to leave the post. 1 foot do what I did apologise and say it’s your fault and you are sorry and they are all right. Weather its true or not they can’t go, It stops the post dead in its tracks.

Don’t bother to slag me off I won’t be answering

Yes your correct of course Cerro I am completely wrong on all counts, and beg forgiveness from all ;-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

cerro - 2013-02-22 7:57 PM

 

It’s like being in the play ground and listening to kids all checking Google to outdo each other I have never heard as many know alls in my life for god’s sake get a life.

I must add I was absolutely disgusted with the comments about the two young lad’s burn alive if that’s what the mentality is; of people on here thank god I decided to leave the post. 1 foot do what I did apologise and say it’s your fault and you are sorry and they are all right. Weather its true or not they can’t go, It stops the post dead in its tracks.

Don’t bother to slag me off I won’t be answering

Yes your correct of course Cerro I am completely wrong on all counts, and beg forgiveness from all ;-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

cerro - 2013-02-22 7:57 PM

 

It’s like being in the play ground and listening to kids all checking Google to outdo each other I have never heard as many know alls in my life for god’s sake get a life.

I must add I was absolutely disgusted with the comments about the two young lad’s burn alive if that’s what the mentality is; of people on here thank god I decided to leave the post. 1 foot do what I did apologise and say it’s your fault and you are sorry and they are all right. Weather its true or not they can’t go, It stops the post dead in its tracks.

Don’t bother to slag me off I won’t be answering

Yes your correct of course Cerro I am completely wrong on all counts, and beg forgiveness from all ;-)