'White flight'

[John 47]

knight of the road - 2013-02-24 3:00 PM

 

To express the opinion that you dont want to live amongst people you do not like such as immigrants/blacks/Asians etc etc, are you suddenly classed as being homophobic or a bigoted racist, can you not voice your own opinions?

 

You, of course, have every right to express an opinion of where you do and not want to live. That has never been the issue. What I and others object to is when some people (let's call them unipeds) decide that perfectly innocent people (of whatever race or religion) should have their freedoms curtailed or even be deported because of the actions of a few over whom they have no control.

 

Btw, I was born in what was then a white area of north London. Over the years it has become very mixed and is dominated now by non-white people. It is a very vibrant and exciting area. There are, of course plenty of such areas that are not as pleasant to live in - just as there are many white-dominated areas that are not pleasant to live in. That's life.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

OCD

 

In most cases the person recognises their compulsive actions are senseless and irrational, but none-the-less feels bound to carry them out.Like constant posting on the internet with the sole aim of trying to annoy one single person, seek help mate like I told you yesterday, I won't tell you again, it's for your own good, you'll feel a whole lot better once your cured. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[John 47]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-24 6:49 PM

 

OCD

 

In most cases the person recognises their compulsive actions are senseless and irrational, but none-the-less feels bound to carry them out.Like constant posting on the internet with the sole aim of trying to annoy one single person, seek help mate like I told you yesterday, I won't tell you again, it's for your own good, you'll feel a whole lot better once your cured. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

 

Memo to self No.2 : in addition to not using humour with someone who hasn't got any, don't try to be rational with someone who is paranoid.

[Dave225]

donna miller - 2013-02-24 10:45 AM

 

This will hopefully sum up the fishing debate................

 

Let us suppose there is a large safe with £10,000 in it.

Each day, Roger, Clive and Myself take out £1 and put back in 5p.

That money is going to last quite a long time. (Do the maths yourself if you're that particular).

Then along comes Tracker and 1Foot, they each take £10 a day and put nothing back.

Pretty soon the safe is going to be empty.

 

HOWEVER..............................

 

Each one of us has contributed to the demise of that money, we (Roger, Clive and Myself) may rightly blame the other 2 for 'over fishing ' the pot and causing its' early depletion, but all of us are guilty of taking some of what was there.

 

Now that, I believe is what Clive was trying to put across, Roger is correct in that EU intervention and factory fishing was the main reason the fishing was not sustainable, but he is wrong to dismiss Clive's input that the Cornish fisherman were ALSO to blame by what they took to eek out a living, let's not forget that the Cornish ships would have been subject to the same quotas and landing laws as anyone else, so huge amounts of dead fish would have to be thrown back and each dead fish would be one less that would be able to replenish fish stocks.

 

As for the 'White Flight' debate, if it had been labelled 'British Flight' it would have been more credible, yes our towns, cities and inner city areas are being taken over by immigrants, and regardless of their creed or colour, that is what you should be more worried about. We will not become a muslim nation, despite the doom and gloom merchants, there are pittiful few in this country (Muslim or not) who will vote for or accept Sharia law, there would be civil unrest the level of which has never been seen before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dare I suggest you are right but wrong. Yes, the law of the UK would forbid such a thing happening but local communities can introduce whatever they like and it is unlikely any action would be taken unless a serious crime was to take place, and even then.....................perhaps not. I think that is the point being made, these things are insidious, they creep up and before you know what is happening a large swathe of a community says 'this is what we want'. That community in total may not want it, but a controlling minority say they do, and all fall in line. The liberal cowards will immediately say that if this is what they want, why should we object, but the law of the UK has been usurped, and nothing is done.

 

Dare I also suggest that while you tolerate a religion that has as its basic premise that no other religion or beliefs are acceptable, then you will have problems. Now it is very strange that during the Moslem/Moorish rule of Spain all other religions were tolerated, so one has to wonder where the current extremism in Islam is coming from. We do know that of course Saudi Arabia is the primary source, but money as always talks. This is the country that has created most of the religious discord in the world but is given free reign by the cowards that rule the UK, and other major nations. Unfortunately, these extremists will not tolerate or accept any discussion so you are faced with a fait accompli situation. You then accept that either your beliefs are to be removed, or you find a means to allow free practice of all. I am not saying it cannot be done, but rolling over to bullies is never the answer.

 

I do not think anyone would disagree that most religions have found equal favour, within normal reasons, of normal acceptance in the UK but only 1 religion seems determined to fight every means possible to allow others to exist. Not all of course but sufficient numbers to coerce the majority.

 

What has this to do with White Flight or immigration, probably not directly but discord is always caused by basic beliefs and religion is top of the list. No one will stay where they feel their whole way of life is threatened by incomers even if the threat is not palpable. When you have others depending on you it is the easy option to walk away rather than fight.

[Guest pelmetman]

Dave225 - 2013-02-24 7:26 PM

Now it is very strange that during the Moslem/Moorish rule of Spain all other religions were tolerated, so one has to wonder where the current extremism in Islam is coming from.

 

Its been brewing for years Dave *-)...............not wishing to name the elephant in the room.......but it starts with Is and ends with Rail ;-)

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

We live in West Wales, and there was a proposed expansion of an existing marina, there were strong local objections to it because it was felt that further inward migration, and the inevitably of most of the second homes being bought by English people would weaken the Welsh language and the Welsh culture. in the area

 

In short they did not want English people coming in to the area. So a form of racism or just an attempt to preserve their language and culture, something some us would have preferred in our own backyards as well, so is that so wrong as well ?

 

One thing that does happen here in Gwynedd is ALL of the children are taught through the medium of the Welsh language which for anyone thinking of moving here with school age children probably acts as a limiting factor to incomers as well. ;-)

[Tracker]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-24 8:01 PM

 

We live in West Wales, and there was a proposed expansion of an existing marina, there were strong local objections to it because it was felt that further inward migration, and the inevitably of most of the second homes being bought by English people would weaken the Welsh language and the Welsh culture. in the area

 

In short they did not want English people coming in to the area. So a form of racism or just an attempt to preserve their language and culture, something some us would have preferred in our own backyards as well, so is that so wrong as well ?

 

One thing that does happen here in Gwynedd is ALL of the children are taught through the medium of the Welsh language which for anyone thinking of moving here with school age children probably acts as a limiting factor to incomers as well. ;-)

 

I believe it's known as NIMBYism, or cutting off your nose to spite your face and typifies the Welsh attitude towards the English.

 

Instead of encouraging inward investment and local jobs services and wealth creation these short sighted people with the own Plaid Cymru agenda would rather see their own population suffer than allow growth,

 

And these people want to run Wales?

 

They cannot be serious - but sadly for the ordinary reasonable Welsh people in need of jobs and a chance to build something good for their families (of which there are many thousands) they are!!

 

Sad isn't it?

[Dave225]

pelmetman - 2013-02-24 7:54 PM

 

Dave225 - 2013-02-24 7:26 PM

Now it is very strange that during the Moslem/Moorish rule of Spain all other religions were tolerated, so one has to wonder where the current extremism in Islam is coming from.

 

Its been brewing for years Dave *-)...............not wishing to name the elephant in the room.......but it starts with Is and ends with Rail ;-)

 

Do not agree. If that were the case then why are other countries targeting nations who have nothing to do with your friends. Plus the extremists in Islam are very happy to target other islamists so that genalisation does not wash. I accept it is an issue in the equation but not the raison d'etre. You really believe that removing Israel from the map tomorrow would stop all terrorism??? If so why are Shi'ites killing Sharias and vice versa.

[Dave225]

Tracker - 2013-02-24 8:12 PM

 

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-24 8:01 PM

 

We live in West Wales, and there was a proposed expansion of an existing marina, there were strong local objections to it because it was felt that further inward migration, and the inevitably of most of the second homes being bought by English people would weaken the Welsh language and the Welsh culture. in the area

 

In short they did not want English people coming in to the area. So a form of racism or just an attempt to preserve their language and culture, something some us would have preferred in our own backyards as well, so is that so wrong as well ?

 

One thing that does happen here in Gwynedd is ALL of the children are taught through the medium of the Welsh language which for anyone thinking of moving here with school age children probably acts as a limiting factor to incomers as well. ;-)

 

I believe it's known as NIMBYism, or cutting off your nose to spite your face and typifies the Welsh attitude towards the English.

 

Instead of encouraging inward investment and local jobs services and wealth creation these short sighted people with the own Plaid Cymru agenda would rather see their own population suffer than allow growth,

 

And these people want to run Wales?

 

They cannot be serious - but sadly for the ordinary reasonable Welsh people in need of jobs and a chance to build something good for their families (of which there are many thousands) they are!!

 

Sad isn't it?

 

I live in Scotland where we have a disproportionate amount of money spent on Gaelic which is spoken by about 50000 souls out of 5 million, but we as a nation accepted that English was our main language and all things would be completed in that language. By not doing so we stop advancement of ourselves as a nation. Our numpty Government spends millions putting Gaelic names on stations etc that no one understands, but it makes them feel better. I also accept that we have versions of English that may not be well understood, especially after alcohol gas been taken, but nevertheless we accept it as the common link. I have no objection to anyone learning any language they wish, but it must never be used to deprive the community as a whole of advancement. The French are trying to keep French as a major language and yes, they are entitled to in France, but they know full well that their young people also learn English as this is the international language and if they wish to prosper, then regretfully, that is the way forward.

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

As an English incomer to Wales I used to have the same attitude as Tracker, but I can tell you this, given that you can still go to places that have remain unchanged since I first started coming here in the early sixties I've come full circle, driving is a pleasure, life goes at a snail pace, quality of life you cannot measure purely in monetary terms.

As for the Welsh language who the hell am I to tell the indigenous Welsh they are mistaken in holding on to it, it may be a bit like Custers last stand, but at least they'll not roll over and give up, unlike so many parts of the UK that I was extremely grateful to get away from becoming an alien landscape with each passing day, and I've learnt a bit of Welsh along the way.

As far as I'm concerned given the huge amount of money spent in England on translation services, and every document it seems in your preferred language English as a first language is probably in decline with all the immigration you lot have got there :D :D

[Tracker]

Do you not think that school hours and resources are limited enough without ramming the Welsh language compulsorily down the children's throats?

 

It's a dead language spoken only in Wales and on the general assumption that so many gifted young Welsh students will leave Wales to seek fame and fortune - or even just work - elsewhere what possible advantage is the Welsh language going to be when the curriculum could have been filled with something useful?

 

By all means let those who wish to learn the language to keep that heritage alive but the language issue is just another item on the inward looking anti English agenda and is contributing the the Welsh Assembly failing children as well as everyone with their cock up of the NHS due to political dogma.

 

You really do have to have moved from Wales to England to see the difference, and don't get me wrong I love Pembrokeshire, it's a fantastic place to live with friendly people and wonderful beaches and coastline - just a shame about the government and failing local services because the Welsh people deserve so much better health and education.

 

[Paul-]

I have to agree fishing is bad nowadays,

I went to Norfolk last year beach casting & didn't catch a thing. Then a chap in a RV came on site with a little spinning rod & caught a cracking bass on his first day :'(

 

RV owners with fishing rods should be band

 

Now can we get back to fishing :D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

Tracker - 2013-02-24 10:12 PM

 

Do you not think that school hours and resources are limited enough without ramming the Welsh language compulsorily down the children's throats?

 

It's a dead language spoken only in Wales and on the general assumption that so many gifted young Welsh students will leave Wales to seek fame and fortune - or even just work - elsewhere what possible advantage is the Welsh language going to be when the curriculum could have been filled with something useful?

 

By all means let those who wish to learn the language to keep that heritage alive but the language issue is just another item on the inward looking anti English agenda and is contributing the the Welsh Assembly failing children as well as everyone with their cock up of the NHS due to political dogma.

 

You really do have to have moved from Wales to England to see the difference, and don't get me wrong I love Pembrokeshire, it's a fantastic place to live with friendly people and wonderful beaches and coastline - just a shame about the government and failing local services because the Welsh people deserve so much better health and education.

 

Tracker my daughter and my two grandchildren live here as well, when Sophie first started school not knowing a single Welsh word I was up in arms, now I'm not so certain, at the age of 9 she is fully bilingual, and even has a smattering of French that is being taught to her as well, apparently the brain is better able to absorb multiple language learning if done from an early enough age .

 

I do however take the point about it's usefulness in the wider world, sadly in Gwynedd if you want to work for the local authority, Snowdonia national park or allied service type jobs the ability to speak Welsh is essential, I do have some difficulty with that, but I don't see that changing any time soon. In addition children are punished if they speak English within the school building in primary school, it's called "english not" a kick back no doubt to the "welsh not" of some years ago

 

My experience of the NHS here on the Powys / Gwynedd border is first rate, as an example I was referred for a further hearing assessment at Bronglias, Aberystwyth, it came through within 10 days, plus was given free of charge an updated digital hearing aid, not available in England on the NHS. As for local services I think it's the same UK wide, where we used to live many A&E departments have been closed.we are kept up to speed from my sister in Birmingham, and a daughter in Redditch.

Thankfully Bronglais has been reprieved from being downgraded and is now being upgraded where I found myself early last year with a suspected heart attack and was airlifted by helicopter from Tywyn to Aberystwyth and was attended to instantly. Is everything in the garden rosy, well no of course but compared to my old stomping ground Birmingham, it's like living in paradise, and has been for the past 22 years now. ;-)

[nightrider]

John 47 - 2013-02-24 6:01 PM

 

knight of the road - 2013-02-24 3:00 PM

 

To express the opinion that you dont want to live amongst people you do not like such as immigrants/blacks/Asians etc etc, are you suddenly classed as being homophobic or a bigoted racist, can you not voice your own opinions?

 

You, of course, have every right to express an opinion of where you do and not want to live. That has never been the issue. What I and others object to is when some people (let's call them unipeds) decide that perfectly innocent people (of whatever race or religion) should have their freedoms curtailed or even be deported because of the actions of a few over whom they have no control.

 

Btw, I was born in what was then a white area of north London. Over the years it has become very mixed and is dominated now by non-white people. It is a very vibrant and exciting area. There are, of course plenty of such areas that are not as pleasant to live in - just as there are many white-dominated areas that are not pleasant to live in. That's life.

John,

You say you were brought up in a predominantly white area of North London, you say it is now a vibrant and exciting area but you dont live there now do you? So where do you live? in a nice kind of place no doubt? its all well and good for you visiting your old haunts of yesteryear but you wouldnt like to live there now would you? Unfortunately the majority will get tarred with the same brush as the minority, So in your opinion it is ok to visit the old place where you used to live but it is far better to get back and rest your head in the comfort and security of the place where you and your family live now in your dotage? yes.

 

[John 47]

knight of the road - 2013-02-25 1:27 AM

 

John 47 - 2013-02-24 6:01 PM

 

knight of the road - 2013-02-24 3:00 PM

 

To express the opinion that you dont want to live amongst people you do not like such as immigrants/blacks/Asians etc etc, are you suddenly classed as being homophobic or a bigoted racist, can you not voice your own opinions?

 

You, of course, have every right to express an opinion of where you do and not want to live. That has never been the issue. What I and others object to is when some people (let's call them unipeds) decide that perfectly innocent people (of whatever race or religion) should have their freedoms curtailed or even be deported because of the actions of a few over whom they have no control.

 

Btw, I was born in what was then a white area of north London. Over the years it has become very mixed and is dominated now by non-white people. It is a very vibrant and exciting area. There are, of course plenty of such areas that are not as pleasant to live in - just as there are many white-dominated areas that are not pleasant to live in. That's life.

John,

You say you were brought up in a predominantly white area of North London, you say it is now a vibrant and exciting area but you dont live there now do you? So where do you live? in a nice kind of place no doubt? its all well and good for you visiting your old haunts of yesteryear but you wouldnt like to live there now would you? Unfortunately the majority will get tarred with the same brush as the minority, So in your opinion it is ok to visit the old place where you used to live but it is far better to get back and rest your head in the comfort and security of the place where you and your family live now in your dotage? yes.

 

No I don't live there now but it is not because of anything wrong with the area or the local people. I have always moved around with work. I spend much of my time now I am retired in my motorhome but my base is in Derby - another multi-cultural and vibrant area, and my eldest son lives in the Streatham area of London which is about as multi-cultural as they come. He loves it. We love visiting him there. And over the years, from the areas I have lived in, I have aquired many friends - of all nationalities and beliefs. I think, on the basis of that lot, that I do know what I am talking about.

 

[Guest Had Enough]

Greetings from Evora, Portugal. We've spent the last ten days or so wandering through France and Spain and haven't had much wi-fi but are now on a site. Mrs H.E. insists on one occasionally so that we can do some laundry etc. and I don't really mind as most are quiet at this time of year.

 

Thought I'd log on for a laugh as I do occasionally and I'm pleased to see that the Chatterbox branch of the BNP is in good form. Even more rewarding is that the Jews are now being brought in, so at least some of you are equal opportunity bigots.

 

I love these learned discourses by people who think that Muslims are in two main branches, Shi'ites and Sharias! You couldn't make it up!

 

Off to Lagos area now. Cheerio.

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Had Enough - 2013-02-25 8:25 AM

 

Greetings from Evora, Portugal. We've spent the last ten days or so wandering through France and Spain and haven't had much wi-fi but are now on a site. Mrs H.E. insists on one occasionally so that we can do some laundry etc. and I don't really mind as most are quiet at this time of year.

 

Thought I'd log on for a laugh as I do occasionally and I'm pleased to see that the Chatterbox branch of the BNP is in good form. Even more rewarding is that the Jews are now being brought in, so at least some of you are equal opportunity bigots.

 

I love these learned discourses by people who think that Muslims are in two main branches, Shi'ites and Sharias! You couldn't make it up!

 

Off to Lagos area now. Cheerio.

 

Good old left wing riposte eh?............You must be a bigot or BNP member if you don't agree with em *-)..........

 

Well I prefer that label to loony liberal :D

[Guest 1footinthegrave]

I think it speaks volumes that to oppose anything you are labelled bigot, or racist, and I'd love to know what a "vibrant" area is exactly, probably a down-town Detriot clone,thanks but you can keep it all to yourself thanks. :D

unless I ever feel the need to get some crack cocaine that is. :D

[John 47]

1footinthegrave - 2013-02-25 9:04 AM

 

I think it speaks volumes that to oppose anything you are labelled bigot, or racist, and I'd love to know what a "vibrant" area is exactly, probably a down-town Detriot clone,thanks but you can keep it all to yourself thanks. :D

unless I ever feel the need to get some crack cocaine that is. :D

 

Dictionary definition of Bigot: one who is obstinately wedded to an idea (usually relating to politics, race or religion) and is unwilling to consider alternative viewpoints, to the extent of promoting hatred and intolerance. Evidence is irrelevant to the bigot. Ring any bells?

 

Dictionary definition of Vibrant - vigorous, lively and vital. No mention of cocaine in any definition I can find.

 

 

 

 

[Paul-]

In Sheffield a decade or so ago a bigot was a very large ingot in de dar talk ;-)

[nightrider]

Had Enough - 2013-02-25 8:25 AM

 

Greetings from Evora, Portugal. We've spent the last ten days or so wandering through France and Spain and haven't had much wi-fi but are now on a site. Mrs H.E. insists on one occasionally so that we can do some laundry etc. and I don't really mind as most are quiet at this time of year.

 

Thought I'd log on for a laugh as I do occasionally and I'm pleased to see that the Chatterbox branch of the BNP is in good form. Even more rewarding is that the Jews are now being brought in, so at least some of you are equal opportunity bigots.

 

I love these learned discourses by people who think that Muslims are in two main branches, Shi'ites and Sharias! You couldn't make it up!

 

Off to Lagos area now. Cheerio.

Cheerio and p*** off if you havent anything worthwhile to add to the debate then you are a waste of space.

[CliveH]

I always have liked and admired your style Malc.

 

Well put Sir!

 

(lol) (lol) (lol)

[donna miller]

Tracker - 2013-02-24 10:12 PM

 

1...Do you not think that school hours and resources are limited enough without ramming the Welsh language compulsorily down the children's throats?

 

2...It's a dead language spoken only in Wales and on the general assumption that so many gifted young Welsh students will leave Wales to seek fame and fortune - or even just work - elsewhere what possible advantage is the Welsh language going to be when the curriculum could have been filled with something useful?

 

 

 

1...Why shouldn't Welsh kids be taught Welsh? They live in Wales and Welsh is spoken in their area, I'm sure Russian schoolchildren learn their native language despite it not being widely spoken outside of Russia.

 

2... Wrong !!! large colonies in Patagonia, at the southern tip of Argentina speak Welsh and have done for 100s of years, they are regular visitors to our Eisteffodd's every year.

[Tracker]

donna miller - 2013-02-25 5:49 PM

 

Tracker - 2013-02-24 10:12 PM

 

1...Do you not think that school hours and resources are limited enough without ramming the Welsh language compulsorily down the children's throats?

 

2...It's a dead language spoken only in Wales and on the general assumption that so many gifted young Welsh students will leave Wales to seek fame and fortune - or even just work - elsewhere what possible advantage is the Welsh language going to be when the curriculum could have been filled with something useful?

 

 

 

1...Why shouldn't Welsh kids be taught Welsh? They live in Wales and Welsh is spoken in their area, I'm sure Russian schoolchildren learn their native language despite it not being widely spoken outside of Russia.

 

2... Wrong !!! large colonies in Patagonia, at the southern tip of Argentina speak Welsh and have done for 100s of years, they are regular visitors to our Eisteffodd's every year.

 

Thanks Donna, BUT -

 

Russian kids learn Russian, being their primary language, so they can communicate with Party members in order to stay out of jail!

 

Those that want to get on in the real world learn English as a second language - not Welsh!

 

The upside for the rest of the UK is that Welsh students learning Welsh helps English and Scottish students get better university places in the real world - so carry on inwardly looking Wales - you have a great future behind you!

 

Patagonia eh - WOW - such potential!!

 

I am aware of the Patagonian connection but didn't mention it as it has no value in the real world and i always assumed it was so horse meat could be imported for school meals more easily?

 

I have no issue with Welsh people learning Welsh IF THEY WANT TO - but I did feel that it is unfair to foist it on those that don't! However as I no longer live in Wales why should I care!!

[antony1969]

Had Enough - 2013-02-25 8:25 AM

 

Greetings from Evora, Portugal. We've spent the last ten days or so wandering through France and Spain and haven't had much wi-fi but are now on a site. Mrs H.E. insists on one occasionally so that we can do some laundry etc. and I don't really mind as most are quiet at this time of year.

 

Thought I'd log on for a laugh as I do occasionally and I'm pleased to see that the Chatterbox branch of the BNP is in good form. Even more rewarding is that the Jews are now being brought in, so at least some of you are equal opportunity bigots.

 

I love these learned discourses by people who think that Muslims are in two main branches, Shi'ites and Sharias! You couldn't make it up!

 

Off to Lagos area now. Cheerio.

 

 

Had It Up , please try to find some wifi on your travels as you are sorely missed by me and the other BNP and CMC members ( CMC being the hilariously funny club Had It Hard made up for us the Chatterbox Morons Club ) .

Bet those wonderful locals in Lagos are loving having you there , safe travels xx